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Oli Burke


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1 hour ago, bossman4 said:

The other issue with Strachan and McGhee for Slovakia was ingnoring that exact advice which was given to them by Steven Pressley who had watched their game on the Saturday. I actually think he was then on Radio Scotland on the Sunday saying exactly that.

Yes I agree. That Slovakia team were dreadful. And it shows how bad we really are. We could have hurt them with a bit of pace in the squad instead we set up to counter attack with players that were slower than theirs. And I agree with the other comment that dropping Burke from the squad was shocking. It was like he was singled out for the embarrassing Lithuania performance (I mean teamwise here) 

I thought Burke looked like he would create something in that game when we gave him the ball. He is Raw yes but he has the ability to go past players and do some damage. 

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8 hours ago, GordyA88 said:

Yes I agree. That Slovakia team were dreadful. And it shows how bad we really are. We could have hurt them with a bit of pace in the squad instead we set up to counter attack with players that were slower than theirs. And I agree with the other comment that dropping Burke from the squad was shocking. It was like he was singled out for the embarrassing Lithuania performance (I mean teamwise here) 

I thought Burke looked like he would create something in that game when we gave him the ball. He is Raw yes but he has the ability to go past players and do some damage. 

some people under estimate the importance of pace. Even on off days it allows players to be effective by forcing the opposition to set up differently. We should be flooding our team with it. Burke, Fraser, Armstrong, Phillips, McKay, Forrest all have it and I'd say we need at least 3 of those starting per game plus Snodgrass.

Edited by er yir macaroon
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14 hours ago, GordyA88 said:

I don't understand this thinking at all. Strachan and the management team totally ####ed up the selection. Anyone watching the game could see after 5 minutes that Slovakia were dreadful at the back and slower than a week in the jail. So we played a team with absolutely no pace to try and do what exactly? 

That is what Strachan is at fault for. His constant baffling squad and team selections and leaving Burke out of the team and squad that night totally summed him up for. Clueless 

And I blame Strachan and Mghee for not watching Slovakia properly and identifying that they were slow at the back. 

 

12 hours ago, bossman4 said:

The other issue with Strachan and McGhee for Slovakia was ingnoring that exact advice which was given to them by Steven Pressley who had watched their game on the Saturday. I actually think he was then on Radio Scotland on the Sunday saying exactly that.

Yup, was just going to say exactly this, Bossman! Pressley was on Radio Scotland saying that Slovakia were weak at the back, low on confidence and could be exploited with pace. 

Strachan then played a team with zero pace. What was the point in sending Pressley togo watch Slovakia if Strachan was just going to ignore him? It's incompetence/negligence. 

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2 minutes ago, Parklife said:

 

Yup, was just going to say exactly this, Bossman! Pressley was on Radio Scotland saying that Slovakia were weak at the back, low on confidence and could be exploited with pace. 

Strachan then played a team with zero pace. What was the point in sending Pressley togo watch Slovakia if Strachan was just going to ignore him? It's incompetence/negligence. 

Yep - And instead he set us up to be exploited in the manner Pressley recommended we exploit them!

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6 hours ago, er yir macaroon said:

We should be flooding our team with it. Burke, Fraser, Armstrong, Phillips, McKay, Forrest all have it and I'd say we need at least 3 of those starting per game plus Snodgrass.

So at the time of the qualifiers...

Burke was (and is) raw and inexperienced, and doesn't offer any protection to the player behind him.
Fraser was a nobody in Bournemouth's under23s.
Armstrong was a Celtic Reserves player.
Philips was an uninterested waster who was average at best for his club and lazy at international.
McKay was (and is) a player with zero end product in a poor league.
Forrest had (and hasnt) really clicked at international level, doesn't reproduce his club form.

Our options for pace back then were... Anya and Forrest. And it's been like that for a long while.
NOW we have people coming thru and actually performing and playing first team football at good levels.

I'll be very surprised if Fraser, Philips, Burke, Armstrong and Forrest aren't in the next squad if they keep up what they're doing. But to castigate Strachan for not picking players who were not doing anything at the time the squad was picked seems a bit silly to me.

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36 minutes ago, andyD said:

So at the time of the qualifiers...

Burke was (and is) raw and inexperienced, and doesn't offer any protection to the player behind him.
Fraser was a nobody in Bournemouth's under23s.
Armstrong was a Celtic Reserves player.
Philips was an uninterested waster who was average at best for his club and lazy at international.
McKay was (and is) a player with zero end product in a poor league.
Forrest had (and hasnt) really clicked at international level, doesn't reproduce his club form.

Our options for pace back then were... Anya and Forrest. And it's been like that for a long while.
NOW we have people coming thru and actually performing and playing first team football at good levels.

I'll be very surprised if Fraser, Philips, Burke, Armstrong and Forrest aren't in the next squad if they keep up what they're doing. But to castigate Strachan for not picking players who were not doing anything at the time the squad was picked seems a bit silly to me.

Agree with all that with the exception of Forrest; he is no longer a raw youngster. He runs with the ball at lightning pace till he is tackled, runs it out of play, trips over the ball, mis-places his pass or fails to spot a colleague in a good position. No good having pace if you can't apply it.

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11 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

Agree with all that with the exception of Forrest; he is no longer a raw youngster. He runs with the ball at lightning pace till he is tackled, runs it out of play, trips over the ball, mis-places his pass or fails to spot a colleague in a good position. No good having pace if you can't apply it.

Forrest gets a lot wrong but he can still inflict damage on teams that slower players can't. He can have a howler for 89 minutes and still produce a goal using his pace. Plus the opposition full back will be hindered by his presence regardless. Rogers is no dummy, after all.

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1 hour ago, andyD said:

Which bit didn't you understand?

We seem to agree that neither of us liked the selection and that we needed more pace in our forward line.

Well I didn't understand you saying we played well and had chances, when we didn't test their keeper once. Or that Slovakia were better than we thought. Slovakia are rank rotten and we are worse. And I don't understand thinking we are not out of the group. We are dead and buried and have no chance of qualifying. 

And the difference between us and other teams is that we don't give our raw but potentially talented youngsters a fair crack. Gareth Bale, Ramsey, Etc were all raw when they first stated playing for Wales but they gave them games to develop and its turned out not bad. We keep picking the same old crap game after game thinking it will click and it never does.  We should be playing Burke constantly because he has the attributes to go places 

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4 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

Forrest gets a lot wrong but he can still inflict damage on teams that slower players can't. He can have a howler for 89 minutes and still produce a goal using his pace. Plus the opposition full back will be hindered by his presence regardless. Rogers is no dummy, after all.

Forrest is genuinely shocking. He wouldn't get a game outside of Scotland anywhere. He is constantly found out at international level. He has pace, yes, but anytime I've seen him playing for Scotland he is constantly shrugged off the ball and he couldn't hit a coo on the arse with a banjo. 

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1 hour ago, GordyA88 said:

Well I didn't understand you saying we played well and had chances, when we didn't test their keeper once. Or that Slovakia were better than we thought. Slovakia are rank rotten and we are worse. And I don't understand thinking we are not out of the group. We are dead and buried and have no chance of qualifying. 

And the difference between us and other teams is that we don't give our raw but potentially talented youngsters a fair crack. Gareth Bale, Ramsey, Etc were all raw when they first stated playing for Wales but they gave them games to develop and its turned out not bad. We keep picking the same old crap game after game thinking it will click and it never does.  We should be playing Burke constantly because he has the attributes to go places 

I never said we played well, and never would about that game. We were pretty rubbish all over. What I did say was that we made enough chances to win.. which is true. Snoddy should have scored. McArthur should have done a lot better at the back post. With Fletch clearly being fouled we could have been 1 or 2 up at the break, despite being rubbish. That's part of what's so frustrating about that game.. that despite the wrong 11 starting for us it's a game we could actually have won. If Snoddy scores and the Fletch foul is actually given we don't spend half time crying about the injustice of their goal, then come back out and just fall apart 2nd half.

But that we could have taken points with the wrong line up does give me a bit of hope that now we have more dangerous looking players in those attacking areas that we might just be a little bit of a surprise in the 2nd half of the group.

We're 4 points off Slovenia. Slovenia will beat Malta, so if we beat Slovakia we're only 2 point off where we need to be, and we're still to play Slovakia at home. It really is still up for grabs, despite how dispirited people may be about how we've played so far.

But Slovenia at home at the end of March is an absolute must win game. If we don't take 3 points then I'll agree we're dead and buried, and we might as well just use the remaining games to give young players experience as we try and build a new side. If the players keep playing well tho.. if Fraser and Philips and Snodgrass keep doing what they've been doing lately.. if Brown and Armstrong keep building their understanding.. then we've got every change of nicking a win. And if we do that.. then it's wide open for the last 5 games, because every team in the group has shown they can drop unlikely points.

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1 hour ago, GordyA88 said:

Forrest is genuinely shocking. He wouldn't get a game outside of Scotland anywhere. He is constantly found out at international level. He has pace, yes, but anytime I've seen him playing for Scotland he is constantly shrugged off the ball and he couldn't hit a coo on the arse with a banjo. 

We have better, but I've seen him skin top players in the Champions League, and even though he makes mistakes he can also make chances on account of his pace. He's not in my first 11 but he's in my squad.

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