"Bonnie Scotland we'll support you ever more" element of fans has to go - Page 2 - TA specific - Tartan Army Message Board Jump to content

"Bonnie Scotland we'll support you ever more" element of fans has to go


clarky1606

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2 minutes ago, fifes elite said:

But what change though??? Its alright saying "give us change" but what does that actually mean. Its just a word without substance or basis. What is the actual goal of the protest?

I'm not disagreeing the average fan doesnt really know the ins and outs of everything the sfa however there are people out there that do who are Scotland fans. It needs to be co-ordinated properly by people involved in the industry.

Maybe stopping the sfa's money would help the SFA look at all the topics I mentioned so its a starting point, but saying "give us change" literally means nothing.

 

I should have wrote "force them to consider change" rather than force them to change.

If those on here with the knowledge would be interested in leading I boycott that is something I would certainly back. They can put forward their ideas for change and provide back up to support their ideas which could be "yay" or "nae" 'd by the rest of us...

Get the ball rolling with ideas of how best to approach it...

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5 minutes ago, fifes elite said:

But what change though??? Its alright saying "give us change" but what does that actually mean. Its just a word without substance or basis. What is the actual goal of the protest?

I'm not disagreeing the average fan doesnt really know the ins and outs of everything the sfa however there are people out there that do who are Scotland fans. It needs to be co-ordinated properly by people involved in the industry.

Maybe stopping the sfa's money would help the SFA look at all the topics I mentioned so its a starting point, but saying "give us change" literally means nothing. If you tell someone you are protesting to "we want change" and they reply with "change what" and the repsonse is "dunno just change" then whats the point.

Also how do you expect people to join in when they dont even know what they are protesting about?

 

The first change I want is the replacement of Strachan, Regan and Doncaster

Strachan is out of his depth and the team is going nowhere under his management. the other two are beyond useless, their continued negativity about the game here and promotion of only two teams is hindering the football in Scotland. The youth set up in this country is laughable because we don't produce enough talented players. Who ever comes in has to revamp everything and not just talk about it. 

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3 minutes ago, fifes elite said:

But what change though??? Its alright saying "give us change" but what does that actually mean. Its just a word without substance or basis. What is the actual goal of the protest?

I'm not disagreeing the average fan doesnt really know the ins and outs of everything the sfa however there are people out there that do who are Scotland fans. It needs to be co-ordinated properly by people involved in the industry.

Maybe stopping the sfa's money would help the SFA look at all the topics I mentioned so its a starting point, but saying "give us change" literally means nothing.

 

I disagree, "give us change" means everything. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out that what is happening to Scottish football on more or less every level is shambolic.

Therefore SOMETHING has to change, not just one wee ginger dude at the top of the National team, but more systematic full change of direction. It's not up to us fans to work out what that should be, it's up to us to bring about the means of change by starving the governing body of it's funding source so that THEY have to bring about the change.

If everyone stopped shopping in Tesco's overnight, how quickly do you think there would be a massive change in their corporate structure to address the issues?

 

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Unfortunately hitting the SFA on the bottom line is the only power football fans to hold them to account. The SFA have taken an increasingly commercial view of the national team, they are not interested in input form supporters as 'stakeholders' so it is only as their customers that we possess any leverage. To that end if we want change then boycotting matches, refusing to buy merchandise etc is the only tool at our disposal.

I said on another thread that the competence of the SFA affects all of Scottish football, not just the national team and as such to have maximum effect we need to be working alongside club supporters' organisations. The best place to start would possibly be with a joint ATAC / SFSA campaign.

http://scottishfsa.org/

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9 minutes ago, northernscum said:

I disagree, "give us change" means everything. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out that what is happening to Scottish football on more or less every level is shambolic.

Therefore SOMETHING has to change, not just one wee ginger dude at the top of the National team, but more systematic full change of direction. It's not up to us fans to work out what that should be, it's up to us to bring about the means of change by starving the governing body of it's funding source so that THEY have to bring about the change.

If everyone stopped shopping in Tesco's overnight, how quickly do you think there would be a massive change in their corporate structure to address the issues?

 

I think you are taking that post out of context and it was in reference to an ongoing conversation

The point I was making is what are we changing as part of the protest, my OP earlier in the thread was asking what level of change are we actually looking for (and did add further question as to who people might like) and what topics are being protested against

If we dont even know the level of change or even the areas we are protesting against then its pointless. I also also said the protest is one way to bring about the change that might actually work, but again the main question is what level of change do we want.

I named a few areas of change too that I wanted to see happen.

 

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moaning moaning moaning.

of course we want something to change...... but something did change for those early games when strachan became manager....... so on we go moaning we need change again. dont get me wrong, I think strachan has now had his chance and although it started great, it now isnt!

he did take on board what everyone but him could see should be done re. team selection, but was too late and even then only because there was a  big clamour for change eg thumb instead of martin.

sfa adminstration needs to change but thats been the case for years with their amateurish attempts to "market" our team to us.

fans need to change ..... we've been pish for years. we were even pish (relatively speaking) when the team was full of players that were borderline world class...... so "only" losing by 3 to england is the least of the recent bad results.

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Good to see a post specific to doing something rather than ideas all over the place. Have season ticket but wont be going nor will i be passing  ticket on as i originally intended doing as  that defeats the purpose. Same with my husband . Hard earned money lost but if it gets the desired effect will be worth it.

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Just now, McVinceSCT said:

Boycott (or any other ideas to show our belief) is a idea which just needs to be seriously organised to have a real impact.

Yes organisation is essential. Lone voices on forums will change the square root of SFA (other abbreviation). If you are a member of a TA Club - westa etc - raise issues there. If you're not, then join one or join the http://scottishfsa.org/       (It's free and they have 65,000+ members already)

Working as a united front fans can run a proper campaign - using press and other media and trying to drum up support at club matches. I am pretty sure that few fans in Scotland are happy at the job the SFA and The SPFL have done over recent years.

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1. SFA is unfit for purpose..............That's the biggest single issue in our game........THEY have presided over the total collapse of the game in Scotland.

THEY TALK OUR GAME DOWN SO MUCH, No wonder they sell tv rights for pittance............They cant even sell our league to the manager.

2. Fans have been priced out of matches in the last 3 campaigns(at least).

3. The supporters club has been watered down by allowing so many to join and our fans behaviour(especially at home) has gone downhill.

4. The manager has little or no respect for the fans, and has been making some unbelievable decisions(finally changes the centre back pairing, but keeps the wrong 1).

Problems with a boycott..........

Like unions in the workplace, not enough people will protest/stick together.

WE ARE NOT out yet.........perform with the pace we played v England in our next few games we can come 2nd.........unlikely but very possible.(probably worst 2nd though.

Jst my thoughts. Sorry if its drivel.

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30 minutes ago, podgers1903 said:

You will still get a core group of around 20k - 25k going. Think the best idea would be to have everyone walk out early in protest. 
 

 

That means paying money to get in... just to walk out again. I refuse to get them another penny until they see that change IS required.

This could be an idea for all ST holders though?

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23 minutes ago, deso1 said:

1. SFA is unfit for purpose..............That's the biggest single issue in our game........THEY have presided over the total collapse of the game in Scotland.

THEY TALK OUR GAME DOWN SO MUCH, No wonder they sell tv rights for pittance............They cant even sell our league to the manager.

2. Fans have been priced out of matches in the last 3 campaigns(at least).

3. The supporters club has been watered down by allowing so many to join and our fans behaviour(especially at home) has gone downhill.

4. The manager has little or no respect for the fans, and has been making some unbelievable decisions(finally changes the centre back pairing, but keeps the wrong 1).

Problems with a boycott..........

Like unions in the workplace, not enough people will protest/stick together.

WE ARE NOT out yet.........perform with the pace we played v England in our next few games we can come 2nd.........unlikely but very possible.(probably worst 2nd though.

Jst my thoughts. Sorry if its drivel.

Point 3 sounds a bit elitist .  The problem with the supporters club is what was originally a very good idea has now just become a way for the SFA to additionally fleece the fans.  Any boycott should start with a refusal to renew to the SSC.

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4 minutes ago, clarky1606 said:

That means paying money to get in... just to walk out again. I refuse to get them another penny until they see that change IS required.

This could be an idea for all ST holders though?

Correct, the point Id like to make is that this isn't just some money making business for Regan and Doncaster etc to give themselves an ego boost by boasting fantastic figures. If it was still Gordon Smith or any proper football men in charge then yes a mass walkout would possibly be an option.

Starve them of the only thing they know, money

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Wont be going myself, hopefully many of the 32 members in our supporters club feel the same way.

Change is needed short term in the manager, and long term in the halfwits that run us.

Just dropped ATAC an email too, outlining some of the points raised here and for advice on a boycott.

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2 hours ago, Rossy said:

I think a lot of people will have packed it in now anyway.

We shouldn't get away from the fact that we're there to support the team, but the praise that Strachan was given after the Gibraltar game was unwarranted and ridiculous, and was responsible in part for keeping him there and allowing him to fail again.

Contrast that with the abuse given to Burley and the SFA at Cardiff 6 years ago.....something which forced the SFA's hand.

Burley had plenty of bad results. Strachan only really had one before this campaign.

2 hours ago, clarky1606 said:

 

 I would love to see guys like Kenny Dalglish, Sir Alex Ferguson, Graeme Sounness etc. get involved any some capacity but I don't think any of them would be interested and you can't really blame them...

All spineless, no way any of them would get involved as they wouldn't take such a difficult job.

2 hours ago, PapofGlencoe said:

This is a turning point.  You can tell the support really has had the last straw.  Think we're onto a downer for a good few years unless something changes.  

We'll be looking at sub 20k at most of our games for the next 3 years or so.  The fun has gone out of it.

 

Edited to add of around 12 lads that go I think 2 renewed.  It'll be those 2 who might go to get their SSC value, the rest aren't going.  These are regulars from the Berti era.

Our attendance for Lithuania at home before the England play-off was in the teens, which seems to indicate that it wasn't a whole lot of fun even when we had a good chance of qualifying after having qualified for 2 successive tournaments.

 

In general, I think boycotts are normally just a way of the football fan disguising or excusing his lack of loyalty.

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Just now, adamntg said:

Nah, I don't want to deny myself the simple pleasure of watching Scotland.  Win, lose, draw, it's only a game.  Enjoy the journey, smell the flowers etc.  You're taking it too seriously.

If you still think its worth your hard earned dosh & annual leave from work then you crack on :ok: 

I, like many others, have concluded that enough is enough and I would rather spend my cash elsewhere until the current regime changes

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Friday was my last away game for a long while, only missed 2 away games including friendlies in last 3 years, but Friday was enough, ahh enjoy the trips with my mate the sing song but watching Scotland is bloody horrendeous, cant remember last game went to really enjoyed and walked out buzzing about the game.  More things spend my money on now, be getting a good relaxing holiday next year for a start.  Will always go to the home games as its only time really get see my mates but done with away trips. 

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11 minutes ago, DoonTheSlope said:

LOL

If you want to continue being taken for a mug then crack on pal

I'm not living in Scotland or even Europe at the moment, so thankfully I haven't had the misfortune of being at a game since Gibraltar. :lol::wave:

 

England at Hampden will be my next game. I'll be back at the games when I'm living in Scotland or in Europe at least. Obviously I want to see Scotland doing well, but I don't see how not going will help Scotland to improve.

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