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Education In Scotland


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25 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Larky supports the SNP and independence ? Is this 1st April? I have been reading this board for 2 years and I can honestly say I assumed he was a strong unionist. Not because I assume anyone who critises the SNP is a unionist but because, like you, I dont think I have ever seen a complimentary post about the SNP. Quite the opposite.  Infact i was going to use the thread he has started on Humza Yousaf as Exhibit A of someone who will post anything anti snp that they can find. I am astonished .

It is one thing to expect political parties should be held to account , which they should, but I must say ,  if I felt so disenfranchised by their performance the way Larky does, I certainly wouldnt be voting for them.

I rarely get involved in any posts on reports etc that come out as it invariably results in a slanging match and nothing else, with the same people piping up, and usually started by Alan. 

 

Aye that is what he says (or said). You'd be amazed at the amount of folk who have read this board way longer than you or me who still believe it.

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1 hour ago, killiefaetheferry said:

I would like to understand a bit more about the testing, how pupils are selected for testing, different demographics, how statistically significant the results are etc.

My experience so far in pursuing a career in education is that the teachers are very dedicated, and CFE has a good reputation amongst them. My worry is that you can have a great system, great teachers etc, but that children who are not brought up in a family where education is encouraged and valued are likely to underperform. Also, how do these other countries deal with disruptive behaviour ? How much homework is given ? Length of the school day ?

Sorry, I have lots more questions than answers on this as I find myself asking if we are really living in a country with declining standards.

I don't think comparing us against other countries is all that useful. Comparing our current score against previous scores is a much more useful metric, and one that we seem to be failing miserably with.

Edited by deecie
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Why is it the strongest voices against this terrible record are not at risk of the education system in Scotland? 

Chuck in accusations of "troll" a term used to denigrate any opposing view and "the MSM" (Trump-lite) the Scottish Enlightenment seems a fantastical myth.  

We've lost the plot.

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Education in Scotland is and always has been under Local Authority Control.  Not central Govt.  Surely a lot of this is Local Authorities to Blame.

on another point Scotland has 32 Education Departments and directors etc , Ireland a slightly smaller country has 1 Education Department reports to the Govt.

Changes need to be made here, Savings as well.  

say 8 regional boards reporting to the Education Minister, funder from Local and Central Govt.

We have seen local Councils, Glasgow as an example , using education as an SNP bad policy, ie not doing what the Govt Request and then blaming the govt.

This is not a spread the blame here, the SNP are not blameless

Changes need to be made throughout,  

I think giving Heidies more money and control is a guid thing. 

 

 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, deecie said:

I don't think comparing us against other countries is all that useful. Comparing our current score against previous scores is a much more useful metric, and one that we seem to be failing miserably with.

Agreed

What about the £20 billion PFI anvil hanging round the Scottish Government's neck - money that could be getting spent on education ?

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3 hours ago, BlueGaz said:

But, have the SNP not produced the biggest split and divide in Scotland in our life times?  What they have done is absolutely huge.  Appreciate that is a different argument, but in terms of the attention they are getting, coupled with modern times etc. such as social media and the ease of getting info to everyone, could that not be why?  

I think that's a fair point but in England you'll get a more mixed picture from the papers (Mail,Express, Telegraph supporting UKIP or Tories and others, Mirror, Guardian opposing ) whereas in Scotland most of the papers are not supportive of the SNP.  If Scotland were independent then any blame for inadequacies in the education system could not be blamed on anyone else than the Scottish Government.

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5 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

I'm surprised by that and wonder how wide spread that instruction/advice is. English was my second subject specialism (never taught it since!) but whatever subject we were teaching we were always told that we were all teachers of English.  There has been a massive focus on literacy in English schools though too much correcting grammar, punctuation etc can be a bit soul destroying for students so you have to be a bit selective in terms of what you're 'highlighting for improvment'.

I teach physics and was told by the examining body at a national markers meeting for one of their top-end examinations that there are only 5 words in physics which candidates must spell correctly - fission / fusion alongside refraction / reflection / diffraction - as misspelling them could be deemed ambiguous e.g. fussion & defraction. When pressed we were told that if it sounded OK we could award. Reports completed by all markers at the end of the marking period ask for commentary on literacy standards - it's briefly mentioned in some principal assessor reports but nothing further ever seems to come of it.

There is arguably a strange logic at play here - we want the candidates to display physics and collect marks for the science - they can lose marks for lots of other things an English / French pupil will not - for example too many significant figures in answers, substituting wrong numbers into calculations, wrong unit, calculation error, sign error etc - do we really want to start penalising a sciences pupil for shoddy grammar/spelling?

One of my pupils recently wrote an answer to a charge question in homework and stated the numerical answer & unit as "1800 cool hombres" instead of "1800 coulombs or      1800 C" - the pupil gets the 1 mark for correct answer with unit as the unit sounds OK and the marking is therefore consistent with the examining body. Whether you agree or not that's the standards we are being asked to apply consistently. 

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6 minutes ago, Topcat said:

One of my pupils recently wrote an answer to a charge question in homework and stated the numerical answer & unit as "1800 cool hombres" instead of "1800 coulombs or      1800 C" - the pupil gets the 1 mark for correct answer with unit as the unit sounds OK and the marking is therefore consistent with the examining body. Whether you agree or not that's the standards we are being asked to apply consistently. 

That sounds like the sort of garbage you get with predictive text or autocorrect, especially on iOS.   While it's a useful tool for correcting typos it don't think it's great for general literacy.  I think it'll have an effect similar to calculators had with numeracy.

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4 hours ago, BlueGaz said:

But, have the SNP not produced the biggest split and divide in Scotland in our life times?  What they have done is absolutely huge. 

Catholic & Protestant divide (encouraged by the Unionists)

Labour and Tory divide - Thatcher

EU divide

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35 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Catholic & Protestant divide (encouraged by the Unionists)

Labour and Tory divide - Thatcher

EU divide

 

In our lifetime in Scotland?

 

The Catholic and Protestant thing has been going on for hundreds of years.

Not much of a divide about the Tory/Labour bit is Scotland. Thatcher killed the Tory party in Scotland.

EU divide? Wasn't a 70% remain the outcome in Scotland?

 

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Guest BlueGaz
8 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

Catholic & Protestant divide (encouraged by the Unionists)

Labour and Tory divide - Thatcher

EU divide

First one i will dismiss as a lot older than my life time.

And thanks for providing potential 2nd and 3rd options for the list. :ok: I don't think either of those have done as much damage as the SNP starting and losing an indy ref, at this juncture anyway.

I also coupled it with modern times and the ease if distributing information to almost every person in Scotland, which wasn't available during Thatchers time.

Edited by BlueGaz
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3 minutes ago, BlueGaz said:

Ok, they didn't divide the country :ok:

The country is 'divided' every time there's a general election.

It's not the fault of the SNP that (some) Unionists have an almost pathological hatred of them, and the fact that they're the democratically elected government in Scotland.

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The referendum threw the divide into sharp relief but it was there to begin with.

Did the EU vote divide the UK. Or were the divisions merely revealed by the vote.

Presumably then every time you have any kind of election you have 'divided' the country as invariably a big chunk of the country votes for the losers. 

It is democracy, this is how it is supposed to work. 

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4 minutes ago, Rossy said:

The country is 'divided' every time there's a general election.

It's not the fault of the SNP that (some) Unionists have an almost pathological hatred of them, and the fact that they're the democratically elected government in Scotland.

Not as viciously as it was a couple of years ago its not.

You keep regurgitating the same thing over and over.  For me, that is a natural thing to happen and will always happen.  Regardless of who is in power, there will always be 'the other side' that will hate them.  Nothing new here.  

Edited by BlueGaz
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2 minutes ago, thplinth said:

The referendum threw the divide into sharp relief but it was there to begin with.

Did the EU vote divide the UK. Or were the divisions merely revealed by the vote.

Presumably then every time you have any kind of election you have 'divided' the country as invariably a big chunk of the country votes for the losers. 

It is democracy, this is how it is supposed to work. 

Keep chucking standard elections at it to convince yourself - but I don't buy it.  The indy ref was different and unusual and brought passion to the surface that I personally have never witnessed with a standard democratic vote.

Of course, we can have different opinions on this. 

 

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There have always been divisions in Scotland - some of them encouraged and required

My point was it only becomes an issue and "someones fault" when the Union is threatened

Any other time and nobody gives a $hit

 

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10 hours ago, stocky said:

Education in Scotland is and always has been under Local Authority Control.  Not central Govt.  Surely a lot of this is Local Authorities to Blame.

on another point Scotland has 32 Education Departments and directors etc , Ireland a slightly smaller country has 1 Education Department reports to the Govt.

Changes need to be made here, Savings as well.  

say 8 regional boards reporting to the Education Minister, funder from Local and Central Govt.

We have seen local Councils, Glasgow as an example , using education as an SNP bad policy, ie not doing what the Govt Request and then blaming the govt.

This is not a spread the blame here, the SNP are not blameless

Changes need to be made throughout,  

I think giving Heidies more money and control is a guid thing. 

 

 

 

 

A post that actually tries to address the issue . Thank you. 

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10 minutes ago, BlueGaz said:

Keep chucking standard elections at it to convince yourself - but I don't buy it.  The indy ref was different and unusual and brought passion to the surface that I personally have never witnessed with a standard democratic vote.

Of course, we can have different opinions on this. 

 

Not necessarily a bad thing. It's up to individuals to behave accordingly. However, I think the referendum was generally very well "behaved" if that's even the right word and people living in Scotland did themselves "proud"

The media and sections of politics like to talk about this "bitter divide" as a way to actually create divide and hamper democracy and political engagement. 

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8 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Not necessarily a bad thing. It's up to individuals to behave accordingly. However, I think the referendum was generally very well "behaved" if that's even the right word and people living in Scotland did themselves "proud"

The media and sections of politics like to talk about this "bitter divide" as a way to actually create divide and hamper democracy and political engagement. 

I'm not laying 'blame' for anything, was just answering a question of 'why does xxx happen?'.  I don't agree with you on the build up and the aftermath of the indy ref being generally well behaved.  I would say that a standard vote is generally well behaved, but I witnessed and didn't enjoy the aggression surrounding the indy ref.  

Its not just the media and sections of politics that are pushing the divide - that is very naive if you believe that.  I often see comments from opposing sides aimed at the other from people who are not involved in the media or politics.

Edited by BlueGaz
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2 minutes ago, BlueGaz said:

I'm not laying 'blame' for anything, was just answering a question of 'why does xxx happen?'.  I don't agree with you on the build up and the aftermath of the indy ref being generally well behaved.  I would say that a standard vote is generally well behaved, but I witnessed and didn't enjoy the aggression surrounding the indy ref.  

Its not just the media and sections of politics that are pushing the divide - that is very naive if you believe that.  I often see comments from opposing sides aimed at the other from people who are not involved in the media or politics.

In terms of how other countries have seeked independence it was well behaved. 

Aye no doubt there's people from either side who with hate or bait the other, however I don't think it's naive to think its from from a small minority, the problem with social media these days that it can be heavily manipulated as well. 

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Guest BlueGaz
6 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

In terms of how other countries have seeked independence it was well behaved. 

Aye no doubt there's people from either side who with hate or bait the other, however I don't think it's naive to think its from from a small minority, the problem with social media these days that it can be heavily manipulated as well. 

Agree, fkin hate a lot of social media. 

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