Four minutes and IRA songs

[Marky]

1 hour ago, Mitre said:

Most St. Mirren fans seem to think of it as a case of Not Proven against Cooper on this thread:

http://www.blackandwhitearmy.com/forums/index.php?/topic/38359-tony-fitz/&page=2

Seriously doubt Cooper would say anything like that. I used to play fives at Larkhall Leisure Center directly after Cooper and he was a gentleman. Our 10 and his 10 were of mixed rivalries.

The Rangers fans song about Fitzpatricks son is an utter disgrace though.

Aye Mitre, I guess there's perhaps only two people who know the truth. 

I was there though and still vividly remember Fitzy freaking out. Completely out of character for the man, even during those troubled times. I don't normally subscribe to the "no smoke without fire" theory but in this case I'm prepared to make an exception. 

[RenfrewBlue]

59 minutes ago, Marky said:

Aye Mitre, I guess there's perhaps only two people who know the truth. 

I was there though and still vividly remember Fitzy freaking out. Completely out of character for the man, even during those troubled times. I don't normally subscribe to the "no smoke without fire" theory but in this case I'm prepared to make an exception. 

I've no idea whether Cooper was a bigot or not, however did he not have a business with one of the Celtic players of his day?  Seem to remember this being upheld as one of the proofs that old firm players didn't hate each other as the press portrayed. 

[Marky]

31 minutes ago, RenfrewBlue said:

I've no idea whether Cooper was a bigot or not, however did he not have a business with one of the Celtic players of his day?  Seem to remember this being upheld as one of the proofs that old firm players didn't hate each other as the press portrayed. 

 I would imagine every single bigot in Ibrox knows a catholic that they would probably regard as a friend. Whether we're talking about a 90 minute bigot, a bigot in certain company, a pack bigot or a full on bigot bigot, they all have one thing in common. They are phukin morons. 

Again I reiterate I have no clue whether Cooper was or wasn't, but I certainly wouldn't hold out doing business with a Celtic player as proof to the contrary. Apart from anything else there was probably a 50/50 chance the Celtic player was a  Proddy! 

[silverbear]

34 minutes ago, RenfrewBlue said:

I've no idea whether Cooper was a bigot or not, however did he not have a business with one of the Celtic players of his day?  Seem to remember this being upheld as one of the proofs that old firm players didn't hate each other as the press portrayed. 

Was it not Charlie Nicholas? Or was that just the coaching thing?

Anyway, do you think we'll ever see his like again - especially in a Scotland shirt?

https://youtu.be/iRZHAe3ARiw

Some decent comments here from fans of other clubs - (apart from one ).

 

[Pool Q]

The Cooper/Fitzpatrick thing is a new one on me. If it was said, it is totally beyond the pale (or contextualising). 

I worked in Newhouse for a few years, just about all of the warehouse and delivery guys there were from that area (Newmains, Wishaw, Motherwell, Harthill, Airdrie) and they were pretty much without exception Rangers fans. Many of THEM used to talk approvingly of Cooper as being a 'good Rangers man' - nudge, nudge, wink, wink. It was clear enough what they were really saying, and some of the older ones backed it up with stories of stuff they CLAIMED he had said at some function or another they had been at. It always disappointed me to hear this stuff, and I'm happy to hear it may not have been true.

 

 

[Marky]

49 minutes ago, silverbear said:

Was it not Charlie Nicholas? Or was that just the coaching thing?

Anyway, do you think we'll ever see his like again - especially in a Scotland shirt?

https://youtu.be/iRZHAe3ARiw

Some decent comments here from fans of other clubs - (apart from one ).

 

I think you'll struggle to find even one person on here doubt his obvious class on a football pitch. That said, tribute clips like that tend not to show the large percentage of games where he was lazy, anonymous and disinterested. 

As a Scotland fan, other than a timely free kick against Australia, I don't remember him ever doing much in the dark blue.

[Ally Bongo]

Cooper was the start of Scotland National Teams leaving out flair players - he was vastly underused never mind ignored for most of his career

Dont remember this ? - ps he came on as a sub (again underused)

Balls of steel

 

Edited December 12, 2016 by Ally Bongo

[Marky]

2 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Cooper was the start of Scotland National Teams leaving out flair players - he was vastly underused never mind ignored for most of his career

Dont remember this ?

 

 

Yes I do remember him scoring a penalty against Wales. Is that supposed to change my opinion of his effectiveness for Scotland. He received 22 caps so he was used enough and that was in times of a hell of a lot less international matches. Ive just had a look and of the 6 goals he scored 2 were against Luxembourg, 2 against Wales and one was against Australia. 

You'll never convince me that he was anything other than average in a Scotland Jersey. If he received less caps than he should've, in my opinion that says more about him than anything else. 

[Och Aye]

He was a good guy late 80s/early 90s imo. 

Edited December 12, 2016 by Och Aye

[Ally Bongo]

11 minutes ago, Marky said:

Yes I do remember him scoring a penalty against Wales. Is that supposed to change my opinion of his effectiveness for Scotland. He received 22 caps so he was used enough and that was in times of a hell of a lot less international matches. Ive just had a look and of the 6 goals he scored 2 were against Luxembourg, 2 against Wales and one was against Australia. 

You'll never convince me that he was anything other than average in a Scotland Jersey. If he received less caps than he should've, in my opinion that says more about him than anything else. 

If you consider that he arguably got us to a World Cup finals single handedly then maybe

John Robertson of Nottingham Forest (League & European Champions) was the preferred option understandably as winger up until 1984-1985 thereafter Cooper was recalled after being out for 4 years.

He wasnt a better overall player but his profile at that time was higher

 

[Marky]

20 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

If you consider that he arguably got us to a World Cup finals single handedly then maybe

 

I wouldn't consider that. Not for one minute. 

And in my my humble opinion, in a Scotland jersey John Robertson was a far superior player. 

[RenfrewBlue]

2 hours ago, Marky said:

 I would imagine every single bigot in Ibrox knows a catholic that they would probably regard as a friend. Whether we're talking about a 90 minute bigot, a bigot in certain company, a pack bigot or a full on bigot bigot, they all have one thing in common. They are phukin morons. 

Again I reiterate I have no clue whether Cooper was or wasn't, but I certainly wouldn't hold out doing business with a Celtic player as proof to the contrary. Apart from anything else there was probably a 50/50 chance the Celtic player was a  Proddy! 

I didn't say a business with a Celtic player meant he wasn't a bigot.  Try actually reading my post without your obvious bias. 

 

[Marky]

6 minutes ago, RenfrewBlue said:

I didn't say a business with a Celtic player meant he wasn't a bigot.  Try actually reading my post without your obvious bias. 

 

I know you didn't mate and neither did I say you did. Perhaps you need to read my post again. 

[Ormond]

The old "(insert Hun name here) can't be a bigot as he was pals with a Celtic player" is the same as John Terry saying he wasn't racist because he had a black mate.

[ErsatzThistle]

16 minutes ago, Ormond said:

The old "(insert Hun name here) can't be a bigot as he was pals with a Celtic player" is the same as John Terry saying he wasn't racist because he had a black mate.

Or the excuse "but it was acceptable back then - so that makes it alright". 

Some people just can't face it that their hero, good ole' Davie was actually a nasty piece of work.

Oh, and now Fermer is gonna track me down and give me a proper battering no doubt 

[Ormond]

5 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

 

Oh, and now Fermer is gonna track me down and give me a proper battering no doubt 

Another keyboard toughnut. Clip 'roond the kisser wid sort that pish oot.

[Ally Bongo]

7 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

 Some people just can't face it that their hero, good ole' Davie was actually a nasty piece of work.

 

Anything to back that up ?

[Fermer]

8 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

Anything to back that up ?

His hard drive.

[aaid]

12 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Or the excuse "but it was acceptable back then - so that makes it alright". 

Some people just can't face it that their hero, good ole' Davie was actually a nasty piece of work.

Oh, and now Fermer is gonna track me down and give me a proper battering no doubt 

You really don't bring much to the debate do you?   Your wee sabbatical after you were called out for making things up was a welcome respite.  

[ErsatzThistle]

8 hours ago, aaid said:

You really don't bring much to the debate do you?   Your wee sabbatical after you were called out for making things up was a welcome respite.  

Aww, good old aaid, still trying to provoke me into lashing out at you and getting myself banned in the process.

You saucy wee teaze 

11 hours ago, Fermer said:

His hard drive.

"Stop the bile. Oh won't somebody please stop the bile !!! Whit wid Davie Cooper do ?"

[Jersey Jim]

I was at the aforementioned St Mirren v Rangers game, Fitzpatrick went absolutely mental and had to be dragged off the pitch after being sent off as he tried to get to Cooper, as Marky pointed out this was massively out of character for him, TF was a true gentleman.

He was  subjected during the game to constant songs from the Rangers supporters about the death of his young son from leukemia, utter utter scum, in my opinion he eventually lost the plot as a result of this, he probably shouldn't have played as his sons funeral was only the week before.

it all happened in front of the dug out and many St Mirren fans in the enclosure allegedly heard what Cooper had said to him, 

There is no TV coverage of this as Sportscene/Scotsport in those days only showed highlights of one game every week, these were the days before the Internet and I know that several Saints fans phoned in the Daily Record hotline to complain about Cooper but they never printed any of the calls, absolute Old Firm bias IMHO.

Tony Fitzpatrick is probably St Mirrens greatest player in their history, he has never spoken of this incident, he actually wrote some children's books dedicated to his son, but always declined offers to write an autobiography, many Saints fans believe he never wrote one as it was inevitable he would have to have wrote about the Cooper incident. 

Cooper in my opinion was an utterly despicable individual. 

 

[Ally Bongo]

29 minutes ago, Jersey Jim said:

 

Cooper in my opinion was an utterly despicable individual. 

 

And yet there is still absolutely zero evidence of Cooper saying anything outside of normal football banter

For St Mirren fans to hear what Cooper said he would have had to have shouted it as im assuming it was utter bedlam when Fitzpatrick was sent off

If Cooper had said something like that Fitzpatrick would have told someone close eventually over time and like chinese whispers it would have gotten out.

Think about it - if it was any of us we would be shouting to the rooftops if someone said that to us ?

Why and what would benefit Fitzpatrick protecting Cooper ? Nobody in their right mind would have defended Cooper if it had been proven 

Is it not possible Cooper just told him to get off and in the frame of mind Fitzpatrick was he lost it ?

Cooper's wind ups involved skinning you and laughing or making a noise as he went past - he did not need to resort to wind ups to get players to lose their cool

This sounds like a typical urban legend and a very nasty one at that  

Was it really "hushed up" or was it a lot of shite from partisan football fans trying to cause trouble  ?

All too convenient

 

[Larky Masher]

1 hour ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Aww, good old aaid, still trying to provoke me into lashing out at you and getting myself banned in the process.

You saucy wee teaze 

"Stop the bile. Oh won't somebody please stop the bile !!! Whit wid Davie Cooper do ?"

Nice to see some good old fashioned imbecility making a comeback, take a bow Arsetz.

[Larky Masher]

45 minutes ago, Jersey Jim said:

I was at the aforementioned St Mirren v Rangers game, Fitzpatrick went absolutely mental and had to be dragged off the pitch after being sent off as he tried to get to Cooper, as Marky pointed out this was massively out of character for him, TF was a true gentleman.

He was  subjected during the game to constant songs from the Rangers supporters about the death of his young son from leukemia, utter utter scum, in my opinion he eventually lost the plot as a result of this, he probably shouldn't have played as his sons funeral was only the week before.

it all happened in front of the dug out and many St Mirren fans in the enclosure allegedly heard what Cooper had said to him, 

There is no TV coverage of this as Sportscene/Scotsport in those days only showed highlights of one game every week, these were the days before the Internet and I know that several Saints fans phoned in the Daily Record hotline to complain about Cooper but they never printed any of the calls, absolute Old Firm bias IMHO.

Tony Fitzpatrick is probably St Mirrens greatest player in their history, he has never spoken of this incident, he actually wrote some children's books dedicated to his son, but always declined offers to write an autobiography, many Saints fans believe he never wrote one as it was inevitable he would have to have wrote about the Cooper incident. 

Cooper in my opinion was an utterly despicable individual. 

 

But this is the first time it's been raised on here?

[Jersey Jim]

2 minutes ago, Larky Masher said:

But this is the first time it's been raised on here?

Why is that relevant?