ParisInAKilt Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 This isn't something I've spent a great deal of time looking into but came across this the other night. Worth a watch and they present a convincing alternative to what happened to the buildings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunchy Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Ye these guys have been going since shortly after the events and have raised lots of key questions that have been ignored or brushed over by the officials. They do make a very good case and have the knowlage to ask the right questions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Where's ScottyCTA when you need him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 WTC 7 was always an obvious case of controlled demolition. The first 20 minutes of that video above are more than enough. Asymmetrical damage, symmetrical collapse. It just does not happen. i was always critical of scotty going on about controlled demolition in WTC 1&2 as the evidence was relatively weak and there were so many other things that made up far better evidence. But I think now even 1&2 are becoming obvious. Rigid steel frame buildings cannot collapse look this. It not plausible. The thermite findings in the dust really is damning. The only thing holding back the flood of awareness is that folk cannot believe they would do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 10, 2016 Author Share Posted December 10, 2016 Yeah after watching that video I wouldn't consider controlled demolition a conspiracy theory. From 50 mins on, the psychology behind not wanting to even contimplate any alternative to the government theory was really interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 It is an excellent video. The scientific method being used to show that the explanation of 911 is likely false. The number of heavily credentialed people they have, it is hard to ignore them. So not all bad then (science) Scotty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 The Anthrax timeline is all you need. Story starts out that Saddam has sent Anthrax to Mohammed Atta in Prague (as per Israeli intelligence) who then sent it after 9/11 to certain senators. This then sparks copy cat sendings of fake anthrax to Judy Miller and a few other journalists. What actually happens is the "copy cat" got sent before any of the original were open cause of holidays. Also the Anthrax actually came from Fort Detterick and was the AMES strain which is only in possession of the US Government. In the process of the investigating this, all the Anthrax was destroyed so couldn't trace it and 2 folk killed themselves over it. That and the dancing Israeli's caught on the day. explained here: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Jim Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) Meh, we've had enough of experts. Edited December 10, 2016 by Grim Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/11-09-07/ http://skepdic.com/911conspiracy.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 31 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/11-09-07/ http://skepdic.com/911conspiracy.html I'm probably the only person on the board that has actually read those links. Including you Ally. the 2nd link is written by Richard Morrock who has no formal education in information theory or anything pertaining to psychology. He doesn't discuss the events, only the personality of those that believe a certain way. So linking that sort of "retort" is pointless, none of the information is discussed. Just the people talking about the information, it's one of the greatest ad hominem pieces of the last 10 years, you could have read it first before linking it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 " The "truthers" believe that the Bush Administration planned 9/11 from beginning to end. The al-Qaeda hijackers were either non-existent, innocent bystanders, or government agents. " No one I know believes this, the majority of the Bush administration were clueless, Al Qeada hijackers do exist, although we don't know exactly who cause they used stolen identities. Thats why some fo the hijackers still turn out alive, cause they stole the identity, but the person is still living. It's strawman fallacies Griffin and other "truthers"also question the claim that American Airlines Flight 77 flew into the Pentagon. They question that the plane could basically disappear "into the Pentagon with next to no wreckage and no indication of what happened to the wing sections." Griffin speculates that the Pentagon was hit with a guided missile or a military plane anyone who doesn't think the Pentagon was hit by anything other than a plane is a not in possession of the facts. Again who is this actually debunking?Should have read it before posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 7 minutes ago, phart said: I'm probably the only person on the board that has actually read those links. Including you Ally. the 2nd link is written by Richard Morrock who has no formal education in information theory or anything pertaining to psychology. He doesn't discuss the events, only the personality of those that believe a certain way. So linking that sort of "retort" is pointless, none of the information is discussed. Just the people talking about the information, it's one of the greatest ad hominem pieces of the last 10 years, you could have read it first before linking it The first one is the most relevant I was just trying to be a smart arse by adding the second I humbly apologise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 neither article addresses the Anthrax, which is the smoking gun or the 5 Isreali's caught celebrating the tower falling. It's easy to debunk the nonsense contained in the articles cause they are cherry-picking the crazy theories to debunk. The Towers aren't the problem, it's the coverup and the linking it to Saddam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 1 minute ago, Ally Bongo said: The first one is the most relevant I was just trying to be a smart arse by adding the second I humbly apologise I don't even discuss the towers in 9/11, too much variables, can't say anything in a definitive way. As an aside. The "evidence" that led me to call Lance Armstrong a cheat years before he confessed isn't as compelling as the 9/11 evidence when it is all presented. Once you see what was happening from inside, (from the senate hearings) the FBI field reports about the "dancing Israeli's" which became avaialable in 2011, the fake passes (person was found burned alive at her car day before she testified) into the WTC. etc etc It's a crazy story, it's like a 5 hour documentary for every bit of info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 29 minutes ago, phart said: I don't even discuss the towers in 9/11, too much variables, can't say anything in a definitive way. As an aside. The "evidence" that led me to call Lance Armstrong a cheat years before he confessed isn't as compelling as the 9/11 evidence when it is all presented. Once you see what was happening from inside, (from the senate hearings) the FBI field reports about the "dancing Israeli's" which became avaialable in 2011, the fake passes (person was found burned alive at her car day before she testified) into the WTC. etc etc Agreed - my links were solely in relation to the architects & engineers video This other line is far more compelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eisegerwind Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Haven't read the links. But we're not arguing a couple of planes smacked into the twin towers, yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 24 minutes ago, Eisegerwind said: Haven't read the links. But we're not arguing a couple of planes smacked into the twin towers, yes? Yeah a plane hit each tower. A plane hit the pentagon and the other flight crashed. Probably because of interference with passengers. There was a top level Judoka on the plane someone with a box cutter wouldn't concern them too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eisegerwind Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 4 minutes ago, phart said: Yeah a plane hit each tower. A plane hit the pentagon and the other flight crashed. Probably because of interference with passengers. There was a top level Judoka on the plane someone with a box cutter wouldn't concern them too much. Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not. My point was, and I don't think it's being argued against was that that two planes hit the twin towers ( one in the pentagon and one crashed), but essentially all of the casualties were in the planes, above or at the point of impact, or emergency services below the point of impact and killed when the towers collapsed. The 'terrorist success' was hitting the targets the collapse or 'demolition' is a complete sideshow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 6 minutes ago, Eisegerwind said: The 'terrorist success' was hitting the targets the collapse or 'demolition' is a complete sideshow. Which is sort of the way the thread is progressing i.e pursuing the wrong conspiracy line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 1 minute ago, Eisegerwind said: Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not. My point was, and I don't think it's being argued against was that that two planes hit the twin towers ( one in the pentagon and one crashed), but essentially all of the casualties were in the planes, above or at the point of impact, or emergency services below the point of impact and killed when the towers collapsed. The 'terrorist success' was hitting the targets the collapse or 'demolition' is a complete sideshow. No i thought you were asking what i answered. Them falling down was the powerful image. Not them being hit. In my opinion. However the towers are immaterial to em when deciding whether i thought it was an "inside job" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 (edited) Here's the interesting stuff. Wiki's timeline for the Anthrax , no mention of it being Israeli intelligence who reported the anthrax. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_Atta's_alleged_Prague_connection However if you actually go back and read the article from the london times. " Yesterday the German newspaper Bild suggested a more sinister motive for their meetings. The claim, according to Israeli security sources, is that Atta was handed a vacuum flask of anthrax by his Iraqi contact. From Prague, it is believed Atta flew to Newark. From New Jersey, letters laced with anthrax were sent to broadcasters and politicians in New York, Washington and Florida. " https://web.archive.org/web/20041201111541/http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/558172/posts Atta never went to Prague, no Iraqi met him, the Anthrax was stolen from an American army base. So we know who is lying. Here is what was written in the letters Death to Israel, Death to America, Allah is Great Edited December 11, 2016 by phart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eisegerwind Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 13 minutes ago, phart said: No i thought you were asking what i answered. Them falling down was the powerful image. Not them being hit. In my opinion. However the towers are immaterial to em when deciding whether i thought it was an "inside job" If they hadn't collapsed, planes embedded in a couple of skyscrapers would've been as much as a powerful image, arguably more than them falling down.If they hadn't fell I can't see the perpetrators going 'shit we failed there, only managed to crash a couple of commercial airliners into New Yorks most recognisible structures and it's only going to be on the telly for the next umpteen weeks, months, years as they deconstruct the mess.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 1 minute ago, Eisegerwind said: If they hadn't collapsed, planes embedded in a couple of skyscrapers would've been as much as a powerful image, arguably more than them falling down.If they hadn't fell I can't see the perpetrators going 'shit we failed there, only managed to crash a couple of commercial airliners into New Yorks most recognisible structures and it's only going to be on the telly for the next umpteen weeks, months, years as they deconstruct the mess.' i can't recall embedded planes, this isn't as spectacular as this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 http://www.salon.com/2002/05/07/students/ "In January 2001, the security branch of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency began to receive a number of peculiar reports from DEA field offices across the country. According to the reports, young Israelis claiming to be art students and offering artwork for sale had been attempting to penetrate DEA offices for over a year. The Israelis had also attempted to penetrate the offices of other law enforcement and Department of Defense agencies. Strangest of all, the “students” had visited the homes of numerous DEA officers and other senior federal officials..." "... In some cases, the Israelis visited locations not known to the public — areas without street addresses, for example, or DEA offices not identified as such — leading authorities to suspect that information had been gathered from prior surveillance or perhaps electronically, from credit cards and other sources. One Israeli was discovered holding banking receipts for substantial sums of money, close to $180,000 in withdrawals and deposits over a two-month period. A number of the Israelis resided for a period of time in Hollywood, Fla. — the small city where Mohammed Atta and three terrorist comrades lived for a time before Sept. 11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eisegerwind Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Well you could debate about that sort of perception for a long time, the massive destruction in a moment (tower collapse), the glorious rebuilding in a relatively short space of time or a lingering analysis, deconstruction of a deadly attack( tower doesn't collapse) that could go on for ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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