Top Scots going homeless

[PapofGlencoe]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-38328702

I know there's no malice in any of this.  People are trying to do their bit but..

if everyone agrees there should be sheltered accomodation of this nature..

Council, Civic Society and the First Minister is actually there giving out soup...

Why don't the Government just do what Governments are meant to do and build what's needed??

 

 

 

[Ormond]

I wonder how cosy the thousands of blue bloods are sleeping this Christmas.

[hunchy]

One of the troubles is there are far to many homeless who think they should get it all for nothing. There priority's when they get money are to get the things they want and screw the bills. This means that those who wish have genuinely fallen on hard times and are trying to get back on there feet end up tarred with the same brush. 

[aaid]

2 minutes ago, hunchy said:

One of the troubles is there are far to many homeless who think they should get it all for nothing. There priority's when they get money are to get the things they want and screw the bills. This means that those who wish have genuinely fallen on hard times and are trying to get back on there feet end up tarred with the same brush. 

Do you read the Daily Mail?

[hunchy]

8 minutes ago, aaid said:

Do you read the Daily Mail?

No my partner works as a project worker for a homeless charity in Cambridge. If you want ask her about the type of people that are the workers are tying to help. As I said not all homeless are the same and from the outside its hard to see the genuine folk needing help to those who don't want to help themselves 

[Huddersfield]

1 hour ago, hunchy said:

No my partner works as a project worker for a homeless charity in Cambridge. If you want ask her about the type of people that are the workers are tying to help. As I said not all homeless are the same and from the outside its hard to see the genuine folk needing help to those who don't want to help themselves 

 

I worked in homelessness & related fields for 30 years, up to & including senior management & advising funders on appropriate intervention strategies. And I'm sorry but in my opinion & experience, that's pure nonsense. Anyway, I think perhaps she ought to look at the array of MEAM (Making Every Adult Matter) research as a starting point then maybe Joseph Rowntree Trust; I can recommend plenty more as to why people become homeless & the cognitive issues that trigger their behaviour.

Does she work at Wintercomfort by any chance? Bit of a history at that place!!

[scoobydoo]

the uk government has just given thr poor royal family hundreds of millions.

 

there is something wrong with society.

[Toepoke]

Apologies, first thing that came into ma heid...

 

[hunchy]

2 hours ago, Huddersfield said:

I worked in homelessness & related fields for 30 years, up to & including senior management & advising funders on appropriate intervention strategies. And I'm sorry but in my opinion & experience, that's pure nonsense. Anyway, I think perhaps she ought to look at the array of MEAM (Making Every Adult Matter) research as a starting point then maybe Joseph Rowntree Trust; I can recommend plenty more as to why people become homeless & the cognitive issues that trigger their behaviour.

Does she work at Wintercomfort by any chance? Bit of a history at that place!!

Maybe it's a Cambridgeshire thing then but the amount of people she has had who expect to walk into a 30k job with no qualifications or expect to get a job and still get all the full benefits is unreal then there are the ones that won't pay rent for there accommodation etc. Don't get me wrong she gets a hell of a lot of satisfaction from helping the ones that do want to stand on there own 2 feet. I do know they take a lot of people just released from prison so maybe that accounts for it as well.

Ill ask her if she has done MEAM yet and if she knows Joseph rowntree trust

No not winter comfort but she has talked about them before. Just now she is with cyrenians and before that stonham. Did you 

Looks like Cambridge city council are on a social cleansing run again from what she was saying today. Basically they are saying if one of her clients gets a job but can't afford housing in cambs then they can move where they can afford housing and get a job there. Seems they only want high earners and students in cambridge

[Huddersfield]

7 hours ago, hunchy said:

Maybe it's a Cambridgeshire thing then but the amount of people she has had who expect to walk into a 30k job with no qualifications or expect to get a job and still get all the full benefits is unreal then there are the ones that won't pay rent for there accommodation etc. Don't get me wrong she gets a hell of a lot of satisfaction from helping the ones that do want to stand on there own 2 feet. I do know they take a lot of people just released from prison so maybe that accounts for it as well.

Ill ask her if she has done MEAM yet and if she knows Joseph rowntree trust

No not winter comfort but she has talked about them before. Just now she is with cyrenians and before that stonham. Did you 

Looks like Cambridge city council are on a social cleansing run again from what she was saying today. Basically they are saying if one of her clients gets a job but can't afford housing in cambs then they can move where they can afford housing and get a job there. Seems they only want high earners and students in cambridge

 

If the council are forcing people out of the district & only want higher earners, then perhaps that explains why they want better paid jobs? What use is a minimum wage job if you remain homeless or have to jack it in to move to less salubrious parts of the country? Homeless people should not be Dickensian cap-doffers grateful for being thrown tuppence; they are human beings excluded by circumstances almost always beyond their control, and the best way to reintegrate them is generally to actually give them a stake in something, and the support to manage and sustain it.

MEAM isn't something you do as such; it's a research and policy framework based on highly detailed work about why people become, and stay, in deep social exclusion. I was heavily involved in a MEAM-influenced project in West Yorkshire for many years, known as WY-FI.

I know Cyrenians (they are a type of franchise really) & I worked with Stonham in the North of England over many years. Wintercomfort was the home of one of the biggest crises ever to hit the homelessness sector in England - https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/dec/01/1

 

[hunchy]

4 hours ago, Huddersfield said:

If the council are forcing people out of the district & only want higher earners, then perhaps that explains why they want better paid jobs? What use is a minimum wage job if you remain homeless or have to jack it in to move to less salubrious parts of the country? Homeless people should not be Dickensian cap-doffers grateful for being thrown tuppence; they are human beings excluded by circumstances almost always beyond their control, and the best way to reintegrate them is generally to actually give them a stake in something, and the support to manage and sustain it.

MEAM isn't something you do as such; it's a research and policy framework based on highly detailed work about why people become, and stay, in deep social exclusion. I was heavily involved in a MEAM-influenced project in West Yorkshire for many years, known as WY-FI.

I know Cyrenians (they are a type of franchise really) & I worked with Stonham in the North of England over many years. Wintercomfort was the home of one of the biggest crises ever to hit the homelessness sector in England - https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/dec/01/1

 

It's not so much wanting a better paid job as expecting to be given the job. As an example Several guys have been given the opertunity of a start at a top Michelin star restaurant in Cambridge but end up getting the sack because they kept not showing up for there shift and then complained that they got the sack. One thing she did say is that she has seen a big change in the attitude in recent years. When she started it was more like what you were saying but now more and more expect to be given everything without doing anything.

She hasn't heard of MEAM but is interested in looking into it and might try and get her bosses into it. From the sounds of it these are the type that end up successful in cyrenians and appreciate what the project workers do.

Ye she knows lots about that issue at WC. Says we will never know the full story of what happened and folk in the local sector think there is more to the story than has been said.

She was with stonham for 10 year before they lost the contract to cyrenians and she got tupe over. Still misses stonham but maybe not Steve cheetham

[Huddersfield]

5 hours ago, hunchy said:

It's not so much wanting a better paid job as expecting to be given the job. As an example Several guys have been given the opertunity of a start at a top Michelin star restaurant in Cambridge but end up getting the sack because they kept not showing up for there shift and then complained that they got the sack. One thing she did say is that she has seen a big change in the attitude in recent years. When she started it was more like what you were saying but now more and more expect to be given everything without doing anything.

She hasn't heard of MEAM but is interested in looking into it and might try and get her bosses into it. From the sounds of it these are the type that end up successful in cyrenians and appreciate what the project workers do.

Ye she knows lots about that issue at WC. Says we will never know the full story of what happened and folk in the local sector think there is more to the story than has been said.

She was with stonham for 10 year before they lost the contract to cyrenians and she got tupe over. Still misses stonham but maybe not Steve cheetham

 

I recognise what you're describing but disagree with the analysis of why. I've done a lot of work in places like York & N. Yorkshire which have similar issues around difficulty accessing properties & employment, as well as working with homeless people trying to get into employment and failing for complex reasons, generally associated with perceptions of self, absence of effective social connectors (e.g. capacity to retain familial and social relationships, self-destructive behaviours - generally borne of fear and poor resilience skills, etc.). You can't judge people who have generally had utterly dysfunctional lives by the standards of mainstream society; it just isn't fair or, in a homeless project, ethical. Even DWP acknowledge that so I'd encourage her, if she is serious about a career in the sector, to read deeper & understand more about the whole issue.

Here's a good starting point (the research was partly undertaken in Cambridgeshire): http://meam.org.uk/policy/steps-towards-employment-for-people-experiencing-multiple-needs/

As for Wintercomfort; I can't really comment publicly about some of the things I've heard but yes, I believe it was somewhat complex & that mistakes were probably made. As a service manager at the time though I remember banging on the door of my local Police chief to make sure I wasn't heading for the same fate, as we had no shortage of drugs on the premises at the time!

 

[hunchy]

3 hours ago, Huddersfield said:

I recognise what you're describing but disagree with the analysis of why. I've done a lot of work in places like York & N. Yorkshire which have similar issues around difficulty accessing properties & employment, as well as working with homeless people trying to get into employment and failing for complex reasons, generally associated with perceptions of self, absence of effective social connectors (e.g. capacity to retain familial and social relationships, self-destructive behaviours - generally borne of fear and poor resilience skills, etc.). You can't judge people who have generally had utterly dysfunctional lives by the standards of mainstream society; it just isn't fair or, in a homeless project, ethical. Even DWP acknowledge that so I'd encourage her, if she is serious about a career in the sector, to read deeper & understand more about the whole issue.

Here's a good starting point (the research was partly undertaken in Cambridgeshire): http://meam.org.uk/policy/steps-towards-employment-for-people-experiencing-multiple-needs/

As for Wintercomfort; I can't really comment publicly about some of the things I've heard but yes, I believe it was somewhat complex & that mistakes were probably made. As a service manager at the time though I remember banging on the door of my local Police chief to make sure I wasn't heading for the same fate, as we had no shortage of drugs on the premises at the time!

 

Ye that's sort of like the type she mostly has just now. It's the I've had a shit life so far so society owes me everything now. It the part of the job she finds challenging as it can be so hard to make them see that unfortunately society doesn't work like that.

Ye she loves her job and maybe not so much the company but definitely the job. Cyrenians haven't changed since she was a volunteer with them years and years ago. I'll pass on than link to her and maybe she can get her work to look into it as well. Hopefully it will help them and her come up with new strategys to help folk

[hunchy]

Just to add I don't mean to come across as heartless it's just that in general society has the view of homeless being the down on there luck, made a stupid mistake type when intact there is a whole range of reasons behind why folk are homeless. From those with drink drug or mental health issues to the guy who lost everything over a stupid drunken pub fight. 

[DoonTheSlope]

On 17 December 2016 at 0:34 AM, hunchy said:

Maybe it's a Cambridgeshire thing then but the amount of people she has had who expect to walk into a 30k job with no qualifications or expect to get a job and still get all the full benefits is unreal then there are the ones that won't pay rent for there accommodation etc. Don't get me wrong she gets a hell of a lot of satisfaction from helping the ones that do want to stand on there own 2 feet. I do know they take a lot of people just released from prison so maybe that accounts for it as well.

Ill ask her if she has done MEAM yet and if she knows Joseph rowntree trust

No not winter comfort but she has talked about them before. Just now she is with cyrenians and before that stonham. Did you 

Looks like Cambridge city council are on a social cleansing run again from what she was saying today. Basically they are saying if one of her clients gets a job but can't afford housing in cambs then they can move where they can afford housing and get a job there. Seems they only want high earners and students in cambridge

IMO they should be left to set themselves back up seen as how society handed it to them on a plate for the duration of there custodial sentence

[Huddersfield]

4 hours ago, DoonTheSlope said:

IMO they should be left to set themselves back up seen as how society handed it to them on a plate for the duration of there custodial sentence

Just out of interest, how many "handed on a plate" prison cells have you been in, & if they are so cushy, why is the suicide rate in prisons roughly ten times higher than outside?

[TDYER63]

3 hours ago, Huddersfield said:

Just out of interest, how many "handed on a plate" prison cells have you been in, & if they are so cushy, why is the suicide rate in prisons roughly ten times higher than outside?

You are way too dignified to have responded to that post. 

Do you have links to anything that gives information on the various reasons people become homeless, what options they have to obtain a roof over their head and and why many still remain on the streets? We were discussing this in work the other day and it was shockingly embarrassing how little any of us actually knew about the background to homelessness. It is easy to stick something into google I know but I would rather read something recommeded by someone who works/ worked in this area than a random search on the internet. 

[Huddersfield]

37 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

You are way too dignified to have responded to that post. 

Do you have links to anything that gives information on the various reasons people become homeless, what options they have to obtain a roof over their head and and why many still remain on the streets? We were discussing this in work the other day and it was shockingly embarrassing how little any of us actually knew about the background to homelessness. It is easy to stick something into google I know but I would rather read something recommeded by someone who works/ worked in this area than a random search on the internet. 

 

Haha...sometimes I can't help myself!!

Causes of homelessness are massively complex as you'd imagine. I normally say to people to check out what homeless people themselves say. Just search for homeless case studies & you'll find plenty.

Generally speaking in my experiences there are significant links with being in care, childhood abuse or loss, head injury & learning difficulties. The average reading age of offenders, for example, is around 10. You can also chuck in sexual abuse for women. MEAM that I mentioned uses what is known as HARM to show how multiple & complex needs combine to create deep social exclusion (HARM is Homelessness, Addiction, Reoffending and Mental illness). Each of these affects the other or can cause others, and each in turn embeds the individual's problems.

If you ever get the chance, go to an event where people who have recovered are speaking. Usually, things like local charity open days are good opportunities to meet formerly homeless people & they are usually willing to talk about what happened in their lives & how they turned it around (usually of course with the help of the charity they are promoting!!).

If you want any detailed research then by all means message me, otherwise just google MEAM, Homeless Link, Joseph Rowntree, Clinks, Shelter...any of those will have lots of information and research for you.

Hope that helps.

[TDYER63]

17 minutes ago, Huddersfield said:

Haha...sometimes I can't help myself!!

Causes of homelessness are massively complex as you'd imagine. I normally say to people to check out what homeless people themselves say. Just search for homeless case studies & you'll find plenty.

Generally speaking in my experiences there are significant links with being in care, childhood abuse or loss, head injury & learning difficulties. The average reading age of offenders, for example, is around 10. You can also chuck in sexual abuse for women. MEAM that I mentioned uses what is known as HARM to show how multiple & complex needs combine to create deep social exclusion (HARM is Homelessness, Addiction, Reoffending and Mental illness). Each of these affects the other or can cause others, and each in turn embeds the individual's problems.

If you ever get the chance, go to an event where people who have recovered are speaking. Usually, things like local charity open days are good opportunities to meet formerly homeless people & they are usually willing to talk about what happened in their lives & how they turned it around (usually of course with the help of the charity they are promoting!!).

If you want any detailed research then by all means message me, otherwise just google MEAM, Homeless Link, Joseph Rowntree, Clinks, Shelter...any of those will have lots of information and research for you.

Hope that helps.

It does , thank you . 

[hunchy]

As Huddersfield says the what's and whys are complex and vastly varied. Each case is individual. My partner is dealing with a lot of guys just coming out from prison and not all from deprived backgrounds. 1 case she had involved a guy who got into a fight on a night out. Never been in trouble before but thanks to the fight ended up doing a spell in prison for which he lost his job, house, marriage etc. It can happen to anyone. That simple loss of control when you have a drink and everything you have goes. Thankfully he was willing to listen to the staff and work hard to rebuild his life.

There is also the story round here of the guy who lived in a bus shelter. His family died in a house fire and he couldn't face living in a house again. Folk would drop off food to him and when he eventually died the discovered a large sum of cash hidden in his stuff. His wish was that the money be used to help others on the street

As you can see there is no single reason for homelessness and so there is no easy fix to it. Sometimes it's just a matter of building up someone's confidence sometimes it's more

[Huddersfield]

1 hour ago, hunchy said:

As Huddersfield says the what's and whys are complex and vastly varied. Each case is individual. My partner is dealing with a lot of guys just coming out from prison and not all from deprived backgrounds. 1 case she had involved a guy who got into a fight on a night out. Never been in trouble before but thanks to the fight ended up doing a spell in prison for which he lost his job, house, marriage etc. It can happen to anyone. That simple loss of control when you have a drink and everything you have goes. Thankfully he was willing to listen to the staff and work hard to rebuild his life.

There is also the story round here of the guy who lived in a bus shelter. His family died in a house fire and he couldn't face living in a house again. Folk would drop off food to him and when he eventually died the discovered a large sum of cash hidden in his stuff. His wish was that the money be used to help others on the street

As you can see there is no single reason for homelessness and so there is no easy fix to it. Sometimes it's just a matter of building up someone's confidence sometimes it's more

 

I was trying to find a link but can't track it down, but one of the worst things I ever remember (maybe belongs on the 'going against your principles' thread), but years ago; probably late 1990s, I had to evict a guy from a hostel for persistent rule-breaking & drinking on the premises. The guy was a mess but in his day had been a well-known local builder, not short of a few bob, but drank the lot away. So he ended up with us, couldn't function in a hostel, ended up, around this time of year, on the streets & was found dead of hypothermia in Huddersfield town centre about a week after I evicted him, just after Xmas. I felt awful & still do, but life can be bloody hard & some people simply don't cope with it regardless of circumstance.

[hunchy]

9 minutes ago, Huddersfield said:

I was trying to find a link but can't track it down, but one of the worst things I ever remember (maybe belongs on the 'going against your principles' thread), but years ago; probably late 1990s, I had to evict a guy from a hostel for persistent rule-breaking & drinking on the premises. The guy was a mess but in his day had been a well-known local builder, not short of a few bob, but drank the lot away. So he ended up with us, couldn't function in a hostel, ended up, around this time of year, on the streets & was found dead of hypothermia in Huddersfield town centre about a week after I evicted him, just after Xmas. I felt awful & still do, but life can be bloody hard & some people simply don't cope with it regardless of circumstance.

Ye that's what my partner is struggling with just now. Lots of those who are coming in won't follow the rules such as it being a dry property or when they do jet a job paying rent (as you can guess this is a minimul amount to get them used to having to do it) they even had a guy who would take the TV from the shared living room and put it in his room when he wanted to watch something and kicked off when he was told it had to stay in the living room. On the flip side she has just helped an institutionalised guy who had spent almost 20 years locked up. He found it hard not having a strict order to his day and being told when to eat, wash sleep etc. Called everyone sir or mam and would then say sorry because he find it so hard to re-adjust. From what she hears he is doing well now and managing to cope with life outside

[hunchy]

@Huddersfield

Genuine question. How did you help those who were unwilling to engage with staff or services. Even after all the tools suggestions and options have been given. 

This is the type of attitude that my partner is experiencing even using the t.i.c. method (if you know it) 

[Huddersfield]

2 hours ago, hunchy said:

@Huddersfield

Genuine question. How did you help those who were unwilling to engage with staff or services. Even after all the tools suggestions and options have been given. 

This is the type of attitude that my partner is experiencing even using the t.i.c. method (if you know it) 

 

I've heard of TIC, yes (I assume you mean Trauma Induced Care?). I am always slightly cautious of American interventions calling themselves paradigm shifts, as we are light years ahead in terms of supportive interventions. However the concept is sound...essentially:

Trauma -> Dissonance -> Crisis -> Exclusion

Or, put another way; if bad stuff happens, especially, but not exclusively, in childhood & your capacity to cope weakens. The more bad stuff happens, the more that happens.

Interestingly, I did some work around head trauma & the impact on social exclusion - the research was by the Diabilities Trust & was stunning in its conclusion.

As for non-engagment; it's a tough one. Ultimately all social work theory is based on change being internally driven, not imposed, so the key is finding reasons to engage. Most practitioners & recovered clients recognise critical moments where a desire for change kicks in, & services have to be designed to respond quickly. Over the years I did a lot of work on exclusion/eviction policy development for agencies & councils. You really need to have a strategic approach across each area that means when people indicate they want to change, options & interventions exist for them. Beyond that, every single thing you do in a service (even before they walk through the door) needs to welcome clients & promote change. Ideally as well, all agencies continually promote engagement & blowing out of one place should not close doors.

I was going to link to the WY-FI research but I think it's only on their secure area now & my password has probably expired. However, if you e-mail their office (in Leeds) I'm sure they would share it, as it is a major piece of work around identifying, assessing & engaging people with multiple, complex needs.

[hunchy]

Yup sounds the same as with addicts you can't force someone to give up an addiction only to help them see a better way of dealing with why there addicted and giving the help and support for when they decide to give up.

My partner been enjoying this thread and is glad to see someone outside of her work who understands the job she does. Most folk don't understand how hard the job can be or how rewarding so for that you have my thanks