Ormond Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 10 hours ago, biffer said: I usually greet Swing Low with a chorus of 'you've got one song, and it's racist' to the tune of walking in a winter wonderland. Had a whole tram full singing it last year after the calcutta cup. Googled it and can't seem to find any racist element to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 25 minutes ago, Ormond said: Googled it and can't seem to find any racist element to it. Fear not. Biffer claims to be an empiricist, an evidence man, a scientist. I am sure he will be along soon with his proof. (I suspect it will be that white people sang a song written by black people but perhaps not.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 48 minutes ago, thplinth said: Fear not. Biffer claims to be an empiricist, an evidence man, a scientist. I am sure he will be along soon with his proof. (I suspect it will be that white people sang a song written by black people but perhaps not.) Things don't need to be true if the main intention is to wind up opposition supporters. In fact it's often more effective if it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 10 hours ago, Orraloon said: Things don't need to be true if the main intention is to wind up opposition supporters. In fact it's often more effective if it isn't. Firstly, the above. But the concept of 80,000 mainly Middle class white men at Twickenham, a substantial number of whom work in finance in a city partly built on the slave trade, who started singing it because it was the only song they knew about black chaps, is unsettling. Rich white chaps singing a song that was written by a slave where he dreams of dying to free himself from the slavery imposed on him by rich white chaps? Hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 12 hours ago, Ormond said: Googled it and can't seem to find any racist element to it. An explanation https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/stuffrichwrites.wordpress.com/2015/09/18/swing-low-and-casual-racism/amp/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 11 hours ago, thplinth said: Fear not. Biffer claims to be an empiricist, an evidence man, a scientist. I am sure he will be along soon with his proof. (I suspect it will be that white people sang a song written by black people but perhaps not.) Love you too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Q Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 22 hours ago, Orraloon said: I quite like Eddie Jones. He's just having a laugh. A lot of folk just don't understand his sense of humour. Generally I agree. His handling of the Australian media last summer was masterly, and I enjoyed his comments about Welsh 'shennanigans' a couple of weeks back. You are totally misinterpreting him on this one though, he and the England camp are clearly furious about how the Italians played last weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 56 minutes ago, Pool Q said: Generally I agree. His handling of the Australian media last summer was masterly, and I enjoyed his comments about Welsh 'shennanigans' a couple of weeks back. You are totally misinterpreting him on this one though, he and the England camp are clearly furious about how the Italians played last weekend. Aye, I was talking about him in general. I haven't seen or read much about the Italy game. Wind up merchants like him are often even funnier when they do actually lose the plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 3 hours ago, biffer said: An explanation https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/stuffrichwrites.wordpress.com/2015/09/18/swing-low-and-casual-racism/amp/ I read it was in the Oxford v Cambridge varsity match (sometime in the 70s/80s) when a black player picked up the ball and had a good game, it was sung then. The Oxbridge wags then translated it over to the incident described above. Fact of the matter, it was sung in response to a black player as it was seen as a black slave song (its actual origins). There are racist origins, however that has been superceeded and lost in the annuals of time. Happy to bring it up to the English whenever I can though. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Q Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I can remember singing it at our rugby club in the early 80s. No particular association with England at that time, it was just another rugby song, with miming actions to the words ('coming for to carry me home') being particularly hilarious obviously. Never really given much thought as to why the City boys at Twickenham made it their own, but it is all a wee bit ironic I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 9 hours ago, biffer said: An explanation https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/stuffrichwrites.wordpress.com/2015/09/18/swing-low-and-casual-racism/amp/ Makes sense now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Blackheart Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I'm sure I've seen some footage of the Lions singing it on the team bus when on the 74 Lions tour. Anyway. Hope we beat these chumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Where I go, the media follows, obviously http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/03/08/england-rugby-anthem-swing-low-sweet-chariot-ignorant-expropriation/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan_Don Posted March 9, 2017 Author Share Posted March 9, 2017 Scotland team to play England (Twickenham, Saturday, 4pm) Hogg (Glasgow); Seymour (Glasgow), Jones (Stormers), Dunbar (Glasgow), Visser (Harlequins), Russell (Glasgow), Price (Glasgow); Reid (Glasgow), Brown (Glasgow), Fagerson (Glasgow), R Gray (Toulouse), J Gray (Glasgow), Barclay (Scarlets, capt), Watson (Edinburgh), Wilson (Glasgow). Replacements: Ford (Edinburgh), Dell (Edinburgh), Berghan (Edinburgh), Swinson (Glasgow), Du Preez (Edinburgh), Pyrgos (Glasgow), Weir (Edinburgh), Bennett (Glasgow). Big ask tae get anything on Saturday. Unfortunately their bench looks really strong which will probably win it fir them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Lots of media saying their bench looks strong, but 1. Sinckler is nothing special 2. Both the Vunipolas are just back from injury so rusty 3. No lock on the bench. If Itoje gets a knock they have a slow back row and Wood playing at lock in the last 20. 4. Danny Care is a twat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Q Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 (edited) Jones goes for the new fangled 'finishers' thing, and to be fair in a couple of games I've watched them England have actually looked stronger after making changes, George in particular is a better player than Hartley. In large part I guess this is due to their bench being strong in relation to either their tiring opponents or their replacements. I hope you are right about the Vunipolas Biffer, I doubt they would be there if not fit enough to make an impact. As usual my worry is the front row, don't think Reid or Fagerson are quite good enough (yet, probably, in Fagerson's case) at this level, while England's bench does look impressive. I also worry about an early knock to Russell, playing most of the game with Weir would be a worry. All that said this is the best Scotland team in a while, that is playing good attacking rugby with a lot of confidence. If we can avoid too many scrums and getting mauled to death, and get some decent ball to the backs we have some sort of a chance. I'd love to see Gatland's face if we win the Triple Crown. Edit: Oh and the ref, for once we need to manage the ref better than the opposition and come down on the right side of the penalty count. Managing the ref shouldn't be as important as it is (laws are laws after all) but it really is, as the Irish have shown over the years. Edited March 10, 2017 by Pool Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFootSoldier Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 England seemed to have had just enough to get them over the line recently. I would like us to give them a real scare and see what happens. Agree with above, hate a rolling maul. We have the players at the back that can do damage though and even Duncan Weir seems to have a good boot. Always look forward to these games, can't top the welsh game can we..... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Owen Farrell strong doubts over him playing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShedTA Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Main worry is that the English pack will be too strong for us. If we do play well and surprise them expect them to revert to type and stick the ball up their jumpers and try to force penalties. Really do not expect us to win this but would be great to see a close game and Scotland playing well down there. The squad is fairly young so still looking good for future years if this one doesn't happen. Real worry is that our injuries will prove too much - without the injuries we have reasonable depth but with 5 out its not good. Ah well love watching it regardless, great occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Useless Irish kents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 11 hours ago, biffer said: Useless Irish kents. Aye they blew it giving that penalty away when about to score. England now just need to beat us to wrap up the title, extra incentive for them now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocky Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 On 3/3/2017 at 6:53 AM, biffer said: Rich white chaps singing a song that was written by a slave where he dreams of dying to free himself from the slavery imposed on him by rich white chaps? Murrayfield is full of Rich White NO voters singing ' rise and be a nation again' most of the time doing it better that poorer white blokes who voted yes at Hampden.. I think Swing Low is ok for modern day Rugby... Its origins are Slave based i know however we need to move on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 2 hours ago, stocky said: Murrayfield is full of Rich White NO voters singing ' rise and be a nation again' most of the time doing it better that poorer white blokes who voted yes at Hampden.. I think Swing Low is ok for modern day Rugby... Its origins are Slave based i know however we need to move on The majority of my rugby watching mates were yes voters and the majority of the guys who only watch football were no voters. But feel free to draw lines and put people in categories, that's the way we will get a different result in the next referendum right enough. and it's not for you or I to decide who should move on when. I'm just making sure people have all the information at their disposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 2 hours ago, stocky said: Murrayfield is full of Rich White NO voters singing ' rise and be a nation again' most of the time doing it better that poorer white blokes who voted yes at Hampden.. I think Swing Low is ok for modern day Rugby... Its origins are Slave based i know however we need to move on Utter shite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShedTA Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 2 hours ago, stocky said: Murrayfield is full of Rich White NO voters singing ' rise and be a nation again' most of the time doing it better that poorer white blokes who voted yes at Hampden.. I think Swing Low is ok for modern day Rugby... Its origins are Slave based i know however we need to move on Never been to Murrayfield of then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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