Thoughts and Questions About God

[thplinth]

How do you do that @business?

Edited March 3, 2017 by thplinth

[fishcumnock]

press an arra 

[Scotty CTA]

I'll try this again...

ROUND TWO...

On 8/1/2017 at 4:01 PM, Parklife said:

How come there was nae dinosaurs on the Ark? 

You don't feel that it was possible space-wise?

According to Genesis 6:15, the Ark measured 300x50x30 cubits, which is about 460x75x44 feet, with a volume of 1.54 million cubic feet. Researchers have shown that this is the equivalent volume of 522 standard railroad stock cars (US), each of which can hold 240 sheep. By the way, only 11% of all land animals are larger than a sheep.

Although there are about 668 names of dinosaurs, there are perhaps only 55 different 'kinds' of dinosaurs. Even the biggest dinosaurs came from eggs no larger than footballs. 

Eodromaeus and Eoraptor remind us that dinosaurs weren’t all giants. Many were quite small, and the average size of all dinosaurs has been calculated to be perhaps not much larger than a large sheep or a bison. Therefore taking representatives of each dinosaur kind aboard the Ark would not have been a space issue. 

On 8/1/2017 at 4:09 PM, Parklife said:

Do animals go to hell too, or is it just humans? Wouldn't like to be cutting about hell on my Saturday off the hard graft and get munched by a lion. That'd be a sickener. 

Only humans were made in God's image and will exist (somewhere) eternally.

(There isn't a 'judgement' for animals.)

On 8/1/2017 at 4:16 PM, Parklife said:

Nah. Being good or bad isn't relevant. It's all about accepting God, or something. 

Salvation comes to those who repent of all known sin and believe by faith that Jesus is Who He says He is.

On 8/1/2017 at 6:57 PM, RenfrewBlue said:

How do you know they agreed on everything? There's zero evidence of that. 

Because they (ultimately the Holy Spirit) disagreed on nothing (with Himself).

The absence of contradictions or opposing doctrine in the Bible sees to that.

The verses only support (and never challenge) other verses.

On 8/3/2017 at 5:13 AM, RenfrewBlue said:

You're a pompous prat Scotty. I was stating a fact which because you don't like it, you treat as an attack. 

The only 'fact' above is that none of the above is factual.

 

[Scotty CTA]

6 hours ago, RenfrewBlue said:

So physical violence is OK then? 

Was Jesus Violent in the Temple?

Many adopt the attitude that Jesus used violence when he cleansed the temple. But Jesus’ stance on nonviolence is clear not only from how he responded to threatening enemies at the end of his life; it’s also strongly emphasized his teachings. We need to understand what Jesus was up to in the Temple in order to reconcile his actions with the cross and his teachings on non-violence.

We need to realize that the temple system of selling sacrificial animals to worshipers had become extremely corrupted in Jesus’ day. Among other abuses, priests were ripping people off by telling them the animal they bought to sacrifice didn’t meet their purity standards. People were thus forced to purchase a “temple certified” animal. The priests would then confiscate the allegedly substandard animal, only to turn around and sell it to the next worshiper who was told the animal they had bought was substandard. It was a money-making scam.

The Gospels tell us that Jesus was so enraged by this corruption that he made a whip, turned over tables, and drove animals and people out of the temple. God’s house was to be a house of prayer, he declared, not a den of thieves (Mark 11:17). On the precedent of this allegedly violent behavior, some have justified the use of violence “for righteous purposes” today.

I think this conclusion is completely unwarranted for three reasons.

First, we need to understand that Jesus wasn’t throwing an uncontrolled tantrum. Most scholars agree that this was a calculated prophetic, symbolic act on Jesus’ part. Based on Old Testament prophecy as well as the widespread knowledge of the corrupt priestly system, most Jews of Jesus’ day believed the coming Messiah was going to restore the temple and make it God’s house once again. By cleansing the temple, therefore, Jesus was demonstrating that he was the Messiah. He was also symbolically revealing Yahweh’s displeasure with the religious establishment of his day and symbolically acting out Yahweh’s reclaiming of his house.

It seems the masses understood the symbolism of Jesus’ actions. While his behavior enraged the religious leaders, the people responded by flocking to him (Mark 11:18).

Second, and closely related to this, most scholars agree that Jesus engaged in this aggressive behavior to force the hand of religious and political authorities against him. After all, he had come to Jerusalem with the expressed intention of being executed. Up to this point the Jewish authorities were concerned about Jesus, but they refrain from acting on their concern because of Jesus’ popularity with the crowds. By exposing their corruption, Jesus was now explicitly threatening their authority. And this forced them to start plotting his arrest and execution.

So, we again see that Jesus’ temple cleansing wasn’t a spontaneous outburst of anger. It was a premeditated, strategic act.

Third, and most importantly, while Jesus’ behavior was certainly aggressive, there’s no indication whatsoever that it involved violence. True, Jesus turned tables over. But this was to put an immediate stop to the corrupt commerce that was taking place as well as perhaps to free the caged animals. There’s no mention of any person or animal getting hurt in the process.

And yes, Jesus made a whip. But there’s no mention of him using it to strike any animal, let alone human. Cracking a loud whip has always been the most effective means of controlling the movement of large groups of animals. Jesus wanted to create a stampede of animals out of the temple, and there’s no reason to conclude he used the whip for any other purpose than this.

6 hours ago, Ormond said:

Jesus was a sinner though. 

Hebrews 4:15 "For we have not a High Priest that cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but One that hath been in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."

2 Corinthians 5:21 "Him who knew no sin He made to be sin on our behalf; that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

1 Peter 2:22 "Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

1 John 3:5 "You know that He appeared in order to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin.

6 hours ago, Ormond said:

Story I was told when I was a nipper was that even Jesus sinned. Some pish tae dae wae him not coming hame fae the synagogue when his Maw telt him.

That never happened.

Jesus' parents accidentally left without Him (assuming that He was already in their group with either friends or relatives).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What His parents didn't understand at the time was that when they came back and spoke to Jesus He was really telling them that His priority was to do the will of His heavenly Father (concerning His mission to become THE Passover Lamb for all humanity).

The Boy Jesus in the Temple

41 Now His parents went to Jerusalem every year at the Feast of the Passover.42 And when He was twelve years old, they went up according to custom. 43 And when the feast was ended, as they were returning, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem. His parents did not know it, 44 but supposing him to be in the group they went a day's journey,but then they began to search for Him among their relatives and acquaintances, 45 and when they did not find Him, they returned to Jerusalem, searching for Him. 46 After three days they found Him in the temple, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 47 And all who heard Him were amazed at His understanding and His answers. 48 And when His parents saw Him, they were astonished. And His mother said to Him, “Son, why have You treated us so? Behold, Your father and I have been searching for You in great distress.” 49 And He said to them, “Why were you looking for me? Did you not know that I must be in my Father's house?” 50 And they did not understand the saying that He spoke to them. 51 And He went down with them and came to Nazareth and was submissive (obedient) to them. And His mother treasured up (pondered) all these things in her heart.

52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and in stature and in favour with God and man.

Edited August 6, 2017 by Scotty CTA

[Scotty CTA]

6 hours ago, RenfrewBlue said:

Being an arrogant show off is fine too? 

Jesus never showed-off.

His miracles pointed to Who He was... The Son of God/God the Son.

[Scotty CTA]

Ooops

Edited August 6, 2017 by Scotty CTA

[Scotty CTA]

7 hours ago, RenfrewBlue said:

Encouraging folk to bevvy too. 

Turning water into wine at a wedding?

There's nothing wrong with drinking wine (however drunkenness would be a sin, and Jesus never endorsed that).

 

[Scotty CTA]

7 hours ago, RenfrewBlue said:

It's pretty easy to be sinless then? 

One half of one sin is enough to separate us from God for all eternity as it's impossible for any of us to be able to live up to the 613 'Laws' of the Old Covenant... but that's the point.

We can't do it.

We can't pay our sin 'debt'.

We need GRACE.

And it is Jesus Who (through the greatest act of love ever) provides that Grace by willingly taking the judgement due to us.

His righteousness for our sin. (It's the best deal/exchange anyone in history can ever get... and it's free!)

He came not to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it.

Jesus was the only One to ever live a sinless life therefore He is the only One worthy to be the perfect sacrifice (on our behalf).

 Worthy is The Lamb...

We are sinners who need a saviour... and our Saviour is Jesus Christ.

[RenfrewBlue]

I'm not going to quote your posts as they're far too long. 

So you've agreed that violence is fine, as long as you believe it's OK. 

The Bible contradicts itself left, right and centre. The simplest example is "an eye for an eye" compared to "turn the other cheek". The bible was written by men. Lots of different men as a direct population control device. It is propaganda designed to ensure the followers do as they are told. Nothing more, nothing less. That is why the newer books contradict the older ones. 

And anyone that knows anything about alcoholics knows that enabling or facilitating them is a terrible idea. 

The technology and techniques to build a boat the size you claim wasn't available at that time, let alone with a single family building it. The usable space would not have been as you claim because it would not have been a large hollow single space and you've also forgot to factor in the requirement for food and fresh water, which would have been significant. It didn't happen. 

And I'm pretty sure the Bible only covers tens if thousands of years. Yet we know dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago roughly. 

[Ally Bongo]

From his posts it is clear that Scotty really needs psychological help

 

 

[Eisegerwind]

On 02/18/2017 at 8:12 PM, Scotty CTA said:

 

 

But, if I am temporarily in the presence of the goats on the other side (Matthew 25), then I hope that I am standing next to Richard Dawkins (or similar) if he doesn't repent (who will be shaking like the hind legs on a dog that doesn't want to be at the vets).

 

Scotty CTA - "Would you accept this (standing in front of God) as proof that you were wrong about... oh... everything?"

Dawkins - ( ...silence... trembling... ...off the scale foreboding... )

Scotty CTA - "So... Romans 1:22 ("Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools") Apt, or what?"

Dawkins - "Wha... wha.. what happens next?"

Scotty CTA - "You know what happens next. And you see all of those people over there on the left? You played a HUGE role in many of them being here."

Dawkins - "OH MY GOD!!!" 

Scotty CTA - "I'm sorry. I really am, but it's too late. You not only knowingly, willingly, chose to reject God during your life, but you made it you life's work for others to do the same (and you'll have eternity to think about that).

Dawkins - "But I... (silence) but I... (inconsolable weeping)"

Scotty CTA - "I've got to go now... "

Jesus to the 'goats' - "Then He will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. I never knew you." Matthew 25:41 and Matthew 7:23

One of my personal favourites from earlier in the thread. I'm also quite fond of the flat earth stuff,go on tell us the one about the earth being flat, go on, c'mon you know you want to. I'll start you off " The Bible............ "

[teecee-]

The Quran was revealed by God to Prophet Muhammad and memorized and written down in his lifetime according to Islam.

Why did Jesus not do anything similar? Jesus never left one written word.

Why if God is so majestic would he need to have a son?

Was Jesus his only son? The Bible also names David, Adam and Israel as sons. You believe 100% in the Bible and also that Jesus was the only son.  Contradiction there.

[Ormond]

8 hours ago, Scotty CTA said:

Turning water into wine at a wedding?

There's nothing wrong with drinking wine (however drunkenness would be a sin, and Jesus never endorsed that).

 

My priest was forever steaming. Real high end pished too. 

[Scotty CTA]

4 hours ago, RenfrewBlue said:

So you've agreed that violence is fine, as long as you believe it's OK. 

Jesus only ever acted in a righteous manner. He never used violence.

4 hours ago, RenfrewBlue said:

The Bible contradicts itself left, right and centre.

The Bible never contradicts itself.

4 hours ago, RenfrewBlue said:

The simplest example is "an eye for an eye" compared to "turn the other cheek".

Probably the most commonly misunderstood example as they are two separate things.

"An eye for an eye" relates to the law's handling of punishment and how it must be just and fitting (as opposed to over the top) while "turn the other cheek" reminds us on a personal level not to seek revenge, and to forgive our enemies.

In the New Testament, it seems the Pharisees and scribes had taken the “eye for an eye” principle and applied it to everyday personal relationships. They taught that seeking personal revenge was acceptable. If someone punched you, you could punch him back; if someone insulted you, he was fair game for your insults. The religious leaders of Jesus’ day ignored the judicial basis of the giving of that law.

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus counters the common teaching of personal retaliation: “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you . . .”

4 hours ago, RenfrewBlue said:

The bible was written by men. 

Then how (for example) do you explain that despite being over a quarter prophetic the accuracy rate is 100%?

4 hours ago, RenfrewBlue said:

Lots of different men as a direct population control device. It is propaganda designed to ensure the followers do as they are told. Nothing more, nothing less. 

Not working very well then is it?

4 hours ago, RenfrewBlue said:

That is why the newer books contradict the older ones. 

They don't, or perhaps you can explain why 855 Old Testament verses are quoted in the New Testament.

4 hours ago, RenfrewBlue said:

And anyone that knows anything about alcoholics knows that enabling or facilitating them is a terrible idea. 

Agreed. (Why bring it up?) 

4 hours ago, RenfrewBlue said:

 The technology and techniques to build a boat the size you claim wasn't available at that time, let alone with a single family building it.

 

God gave Noah the dimensions/instructions, and it took him approx. 55-75 years to build the ark.

4 hours ago, RenfrewBlue said:

The usable space would not have been as you claim because it would not have been a large hollow single space and you've also forgot to factor in the requirement for food and fresh water, which would have been significant.

"Also take with you every sort of food that is eaten, and store it up. It shall serve as food for you and for them.” Genesis 6:21

4 hours ago, RenfrewBlue said:

And I'm pretty sure the Bible only covers tens if thousands of years. 

It covers 7,000 years.

4 hours ago, RenfrewBlue said:

Yet we know dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago roughly. 

That is something baseless that you choose to accept by blind faith because it is something that you want to accept.

You have no way of knowing that on your own.

You are just repeating what pseudo-science has told you.

Why don't you try and verify it independently?

[Scotty CTA]

2 hours ago, Eisegerwind said:

One of my personal favourites from earlier in the thread. 

Mine too.

2 hours ago, Eisegerwind said:

I'm also quite fond of the flat earth stuff...

I'm still looking into it and I haven't found anything to change my mind as yet.

[Eisegerwind]

22 minutes ago, Scotty CTA said:

Mine too.

I'm still looking into it and I haven't found anything to change my mind as yet.

 

[Eisegerwind]

You said before '

 God chose to say He sits upon the 'circle' of the earth (when the word 'ball/sphere' was available in the Bible) and He says it's motionless.

i'm going with that'

Now you are saying this this, sounds to me like you are questioning the word of god,is that not burny fire territory.

[Ally Bongo]

1 hour ago, Scotty CTA said:

That is something baseless that you choose to accept by blind faith because it is something that you want to accept.

You have no way of knowing that on your own.

You are just repeating what pseudo-science has told you.

Why don't you try and verify it independently?

Thankfully people with these types of beliefs are now pigeon holed with astrologists

If you are not trolling and really and truly refuse to believe vast amounts of physical evidence because it goes against written words of men from 2000 years ago then you are a rocket and much further gone than i initially thought  

 

[they've_been_suckered]

M

11 hours ago, Scotty CTA said:

I'll try this again...

ROUND TWO...

You don't feel that it was possible space-wise?

According to Genesis 6:15, the Ark measured 300x50x30 cubits, which is about 460x75x44 feet, with a volume of 1.54 million cubic feet. Researchers have shown that this is the equivalent volume of 522 standard railroad stock cars (US), each of which can hold 240 sheep. By the way, only 11% of all land animals are larger than a sheep.

Although there are about 668 names of dinosaurs, there are perhaps only 55 different 'kinds' of dinosaurs. Even the biggest dinosaurs came from eggs no larger than footballs. 

Eodromaeus and Eoraptor remind us that dinosaurs weren’t all giants. Many were quite small, and the average size of all dinosaurs has been calculated to be perhaps not much larger than a large sheep or a bison. Therefore taking representatives of each dinosaur kind aboard the Ark would not have been a space issue. 

Only humans were made in God's image and will exist (somewhere) eternally.

(There isn't a 'judgement' for animals.)

 

F*ck up

how many million species are there and you're talking about cubits. What a mentalist  

[RenfrewBlue]

1 hour ago, Scotty CTA said:

Jesus only ever acted in a righteous manner. He never used violence.

The Bible never contradicts itself.

Probably the most commonly misunderstood example as they are two separate things.

"An eye for an eye" relates to the law's handling of punishment and how it must be just and fitting (as opposed to over the top) while "turn the other cheek" reminds us on a personal level not to seek revenge, and to forgive our enemies.

In the New Testament, it seems the Pharisees and scribes had taken the “eye for an eye” principle and applied it to everyday personal relationships. They taught that seeking personal revenge was acceptable. If someone punched you, you could punch him back; if someone insulted you, he was fair game for your insults. The religious leaders of Jesus’ day ignored the judicial basis of the giving of that law.

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus counters the common teaching of personal retaliation: “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you . . .”

Then how (for example) do you explain that despite being over a quarter prophetic the accuracy rate is 100%?

Not working very well then is it?

They don't, or perhaps you can explain why 855 Old Testament verses are quoted in the New Testament.

Agreed. (Why bring it up?) 

God gave Noah the dimensions/instructions, and it took him approx. 55-75 years to build the ark.

"Also take with you every sort of food that is eaten, and store it up. It shall serve as food for you and for them.” Genesis 6:21

It covers 7,000 years.

That is something baseless that you choose to accept by blind faith because it is something that you want to accept.

You have no way of knowing that on your own.

You are just repeating what pseudo-science has told you.

Why don't you try and verify it independently?

I'll trim this down to 3 main points that show how mental your statements are. 

You are claiming that Jesus driving the money lenders out of the temple with a whip was just righteous action. Try doing that down your local pawn shop and see where it gets you. It was violent action pure and simple and it was driven by anger. Another sin. The story just doesn't hold up to the "standards" of personal behaviour required by Jesus of his followers. And that's just one story that's been recorded. All bullies do this game like this more than once. 

God can give Moses the instructions and the extended life span, which wasn't possible, all you like. He wouldn't have been able to build an Ark that size with the techniques and technology available. You haven't answered that. 

The food and water would have taken up space. The boat wasn't big enough for all the animals already, so where did the provisions go? 

And one point that's not been addressed yet. The water rising up would have been salt water. So did Noah also take on board 2 of all of the fresh water species of fish etc? 

That's a hell of a lot of fish tanks. 

[The White Ceelo]

4 hours ago, RenfrewBlue said:

 

The food and water would have taken up space. The boat wasn't big enough for all the animals already, so where did the provisions go? 

 

Ahh, that explains ll the extinct animals now, them Dodos must have been mighty tasty

[RenfrewBlue]

55 minutes ago, The White Ceelo said:

Ahh, that explains ll the extinct animals now, them Dodos must have been mighty tasty

That was the Galapagos Giant Tortoises. Not a single one made it back to the UK as they were apparently delicious. Now that's Darwins Theory of Evolution proven right there. ? 

6 hours ago, Scotty CTA said:

 

[Toepoke]

8 hours ago, Ormond said:

My priest was forever steaming. Real high end pished too. 

When ma old man worked for the cooncil someone from his office would need to occasionally meet the local priest to discuss some building work at the chapel. These meetings were always scheduled for the afternoon as there was no possibilty of returning to work. The father would commence business by opening a bottle of whisky and throwing the cork in the bin, announcing that "we won't be needing that again".

 

[Ally Bongo]

Carl Sagan 1996

[Larky Masher]