Martin McGuinness

[Reevesy]

7 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

 

 

 

 

 

I can't remember what the thread was about, but remember a discussion about fans of either side of the old firm largely following the party line when it came to politics etc.

With the exception of Eddard, not much to dispel that theory in here.

Can't speak for the rest but I'm not following any party line. I have great respect for a man who fought for his country against foreign invaders. That's all. Feck knows why you're involving football teams.

[phart]

3 hours ago, Och Aye said:

Found this paragraph interesting on the BBC report this morning.

But his leadership potential was spotted early and he was just 22 when he and Gerry Adams were flown to London for secret talks with the British government: MI5 considered him serious officer material with strategic vision.

There has been considerable speculation on him being an MI5 agent called "fisherman", the evidence is quite compelling, however it's also a great piece of propaganda against him, so that's what stops me believing it wholesale.

[Guest BlueGaz]

12 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

 

 

 

 

 

I can't remember what the thread was about, but remember a discussion about fans of either side of the old firm largely following the party line when it came to politics etc.

With the exception of Eddard, not much to dispel that theory in here.

23 years in the army is where my comments come from, not my hobby on a Saturday afternoon.  But thanks for your input 

[phart]

43 minutes ago, Mark frae Crieff said:

So will we finally find out if he was "Steak knife"? 

Freddie Scappaticci was meant to be steak knife, not McGuinnes.

Above i say MI5 but it could be 6 as well, round the time of the early 70's there was a handover a power to mi5 who were at the time staffed by right-wing idealogues and that is how we got operation clockwork orange and the framing of Colin Wallace.

Edited March 21, 2017 by phart

[Squirrelhumper]

39 minutes ago, dave said:

Rumous going around for years that either MM or the bearded one works for the security services hence why they've always avoided prosecution. 

Anyway I hope it was a slow and painful death. My thoughts are with the victims of his death squads who never got to see their kids grow up or get to see Marty jailed for his actions.

They'll probably be in the same place upstairs as the UK Paras who killed innocents over there.

[Chief]

24 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

 

 

 

 

 

I can't remember what the thread was about, but remember a discussion about fans of either side of the old firm largely following the party line when it came to politics etc.

With the exception of Eddard, not much to dispel that theory in here.

I was under the impression politics and football don't mix, I'm sure that was the "party line" spun on here until the referendum came along. 

My thoughts are mainly formed from living in a town with a marine base attached, and I grew up checking underneath the car to make sure we're weren't going to be blown up on the school run, football doesn't even come into it at all. 

[Guest BlueGaz]

To be fair, it is the TAMB, and it was only a matter of time before a non OF fan brought the OF into a thread that is nothing to do with football.

Thats not a slight on the TAMB, its just business as usual.

Edited March 21, 2017 by BlueGaz

[Ormond]

5 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

They'll probably be in the same place upstairs as the UK Paras who killed innocents over there.

Yep. That evil ####er Thatcher held up as some kind of heroine to millions whereas McGuinness is simply a terrorist turned politician. 

[Guest BlueGaz]

3 minutes ago, Ormond said:

Yep. That evil ####er Thatcher held up as some kind of heroine to millions whereas McGuinness is simply a terrorist turned politician. 

I suspect mcguinness is held up as a hero to millions too.  

[sbcmfc]

1 minute ago, BlueGaz said:

To be fair, it is the TAMB, and it was only a matter of time before a non OF fan brought the OF into a thread that is nothing to do with football.

Merely an observation.

You could almost entirely split the responses in this thread in to three groups.

Rangers fans: burn in hell

Celtic fan: RIP Martin

Others: general discussion of the fact he'd died and the reaction to it.

[Guest BlueGaz]

4 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

Merely an observation.

You could almost entirely split the responses in this thread in to three groups.

Rangers fans: burn in hell

Celtic fan: RIP Martin

Others: general discussion of the fact he'd died and the reaction to it.

I think calling him a coward is different to saying burn in hell, don't you think?  I appreciate that wouldn't make your graph work, but a bit harsh on your part?

[phart]

What is it that made him a coward specifically?

[TDYER63]

3 hours ago, sbcmfc said:

Merely an observation.

You could almost entirely split the responses in this thread in to three groups.

Rangers fans: burn in hell

Celtic fan: RIP Martin

Others: general discussion of the fact he'd died and the reaction to it.

Agreed.

Wonder what category Neil R is in. 2 pages into an obituary thread and he's nowhere to be seen. Another one taken before Lulu, he'll no be happy. 

  

[hunchy]

I do wonder how much of a choice he had from going from freedom fighter/terrorist to politician. I just get the feeling that he was in a corner and it was his only way out. By all reports he was high up in the IRA and those who looked up to him would have respected his turn to politics without looking to hard into why.

[vanderark14]

4 hours ago, BlueGaz said:

To be fair, it is the TAMB, and it was only a matter of time before a non OF fan brought the OF into a thread that is nothing to do with football.

Thats not a slight on the TAMB, its just business as usual.

Has a dig at the forum and then says it's not a slight on the forum

 

[TDYER63]

37 minutes ago, hunchy said:

I do wonder how much of a choice he had from going from freedom fighter/terrorist to politician. I just get the feeling that he was in a corner and it was his only way out. By all reports he was high up in the IRA and those who looked up to him would have respected his turn to politics without looking to hard into why.

I suppose you could also argue that he would have had plenty comrades in the IRA that could help him 'disappear' if he really wanted to,  so perhaps he did have an interest in trying to help in the peace process. 

I have no side on this, he was involved in atrocities of the highest order and probably deserves a lot of what is being said against him. But he did also work hard to change things for the better and that has to be respected and acknowledged  too. 

[Nobby]

46 minutes ago, hunchy said:

I do wonder how much of a choice he had from going from freedom fighter/terrorist to politician. I just get the feeling that he was in a corner and it was his only way out. By all reports he was high up in the IRA and those who looked up to him would have respected his turn to politics without looking to hard into why.

For me the IRA were fecked the day 9/11 happened and the so called "war on terror" commenced. As for what he was, I suspect he was a scumbag that did a lot of shitty things. However "one mans terrorist " and all that. You're going to get one of two responses about him and each are perfectly valid opinions ! 

[thplinth]

Quote

ter·ror·ism
noun
the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

So what is the word for 'the lawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims'?

Edited March 21, 2017 by thplinth

[Reevesy]

2 minutes ago, thplinth said:

So what is the word for 'the lawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims'?

British army hero

Edit: 3 words 

Edited March 21, 2017 by Reevesy

[Caledonian Craig]

15 minutes ago, Nobby said:

You're going to get one of two responses about him and each are perfectly valid opinions ! 

Spot on.

He will get no sympathy from the many who suffered at the hands of the IRA and to them and others he will be seen as a coward, a murderer and bringer of great pain to many people's lives. Very fair given his first 40 to 50 years of his life. When he became mediater and brokered a peace deal in which he was a key figure calling on arms to be downed and helping to end the woes he had, himself, earlier caused so much of. Some will prefer thinking of him in that light but for sure he was a true Jekyll and Hyde character.

[Ormond]

1 hour ago, Reevesy said:

British army hero

Edit: 3 words 

Spot on. Cvnts.

[ErsatzThistle]

6 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

They'll probably be in the same place upstairs as the UK Paras who killed innocents over there.

Sssshhhh !!!

Your not allowed to criticise our glorious, heroic British Army on here.

Correctly bringing up the fact that many staggering atrocities these "heroes" * have committed against civilians and prisoners of war makes one a lying, cowardly, pinko, disloyal, terrorist loving scum to all these weirdos with anger management problems that worship everything about the military.

*Including Scots, we cannot walk away from that.

Edited March 21, 2017 by ErsatzThistle

[Guest flumax]

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter

 http://thebackbencher.co.uk/3-things-you-didnt-want-to-know-about-nelson-mandela/

[Dave78]

41 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Sssshhhh !!!

Your not allowed to criticise our glorious, heroic British Army on here.

Correctly bringing up the fact that many staggering atrocities these "heroes" * have committed against civilians and prisoners of war makes one a lying, cowardly, pinko, disloyal, terrorist loving scum to all these weirdos with anger management problems that worship everything about the military.

*Including Scots, we cannot walk away from that.

That was something that struck me watching about an hour of the Victoria Derbyshire programme this morning. The debate was basically between deciding if he was a peacemaker who deserves praise (with Alisdair Campbell speaking in his defence), or an evil k.unt who will burn in hellfire (with Lord Tebbit on the phone making the case for the prosecution).

There was no historical context as to why he might have become that evil k.unt . No mention of the civil rights movement or Bloody Sunday.

Contrast that with the main RTE news programme i watched this evening who had their main newsreader presenting the programme from (London)Derry and gave much more detail about the historical context.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Dave78

[fringo]

5 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

That was something that struck me watching about an hour of the Victoria Derbyshire programme this morning. The debate was basically between deciding if he was a peacemaker who deserves praise (with Alisdair Campbell speaking in his defence), or an evil k.unt who will burn in hellfire (with Lord Tebbit on the phone making the case for the prosecution).

There was no historical context as to why he might have become that evil k.unt . No mention of the civil rights movement or Bloody Sunday.

Contrast that with the main RTE news programme i watched this evening who had their main newsreader presenting the programme from (London)Derry and gave much more detail about the historical context.

He was probably both at different times in his life.