Martin McGuinness

[Squirrelhumper]

29 minutes ago, BlueGaz said:

I lived there for many years, so feel I do.

As part of the British Army?

[ParisInAKilt]

2 hours ago, Newryrep said:

given that Britain is currently the worlds second biggest arm exporter I wouldn't be too quick if I was a British politician past or present  to be getting all high and mighty over innocents being killed  

Correct. 

Many of them are complicit in a lot of deaths. All business eh? 

[Guest BlueGaz]

54 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

As part of the British Army?

Both, went to school there and then did another few years all in all as a squaddie.

[Parklife]

4 minutes ago, BlueGaz said:

went to school there

Because your dad was in the Army? 

[Guest BlueGaz]

8 minutes ago, Parklife said:

Because your dad was in the Army? 

No, he worked over there for a few years.

 

[EddardStark]

I'm not sure what point is made by bringing up the indiscretions of the British Army in Ireland. As a force I think the balance suggests a force for good. The Provos actions were never supported by the vast majority of Irish men and women. Who could support the atrocities they carried out over a prolonged period? McGuiness promised truth and reconciliation but never delivered that but at the same time the Republicans demanded justice for British state crimes. We are still going through this process. The galling issue for Unionism is the perception of accountability is one way.

[Guest BlueGaz]

5 minutes ago, EddardStark said:

I'm not sure what point is made by bringing up the indiscretions of the British Army in Ireland. 

Its not relevant here, its a different subject.  Its just a chance for some to get if off their chests again.  Maybe they dont get enough chances to voice it generally, so this gave them a platform.  Doesn't change the fact Martin was a mass murderer,

[Parklife]

10 minutes ago, BlueGaz said:

Its not relevant here, its a different subject.

Comments like yours below are exactly why it is relevant. 

10 minutes ago, BlueGaz said:

Doesn't change the fact Martin was a mass murderer,

 

[Guest BlueGaz]

2 minutes ago, Parklife said:

Comments like yours below are exactly why it is relevant. 

 

Its not. Start another thread if you want to discuss the Army being murderers?  Will partake in a new thread when you start it   You talk deflect a lot when someone comes with an opposite to what you are discussing, so practice what you preach. 

[Parklife]

1 minute ago, BlueGaz said:

Its not. Start another thread if you want to discuss the Army being murderers?  Will partake in a new thread when you start it   You talk deflect a lot when someone comes with an opposite to what you are discussing, so practice what you preach. 

I never mentioned the Army being murderers   I've made two posts on this thread, the two you have quoted. 

My point was simply that the actions of the IRA (and McGuinness) have to be put in to context. The context being they were at war with the United Kingdom's Armed forces. I'm not interested in getting in to the who's right and who's wrong in the conflict. I'm simply stating that, as someone else put it in the thread, "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" 

[Guest BlueGaz]

Just now, Parklife said:

I never mentioned the Army being murderers   I've made two posts on this thread, the two you have quoted. 

My point was simply that the actions of the IRA (and McGuinness) have to be put in to context. The context being they were at war with the United Kingdom's Armed forces. I'm not interested in getting in to the who's right and who's wrong in the conflict. I'm simply stating that, as someone else put it in the thread, "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" 

So getting into a bun fight reference the British Military and what they have done across the world is relevant to a thread about Mcginness dieing and being a mass murderer?  Its not, its a different discussion, worthy of their own thread.

Freedom Fighters can mass murder,  so what his supporters want to call him matters not to me. 

[Parklife]

16 minutes ago, BlueGaz said:

So getting into a bun fight reference the British Military and what they have done across the world is relevant to a thread about Mcginness dieing and being a mass murderer?  Its not, its a different discussion, worthy of their own thread.

Their actions on the island of Ireland is very relevant. 

 

[Guest BlueGaz]

Just now, Parklife said:

Their actions on the island of Ireland is very relevant. 

 

[ParisInAKilt]

3 hours ago, BlueGaz said:

So getting into a bun fight reference the British Military and what they have done across the world is relevant to a thread about Mcginness dieing and being a mass murderer?  Its not, its a different discussion, worthy of their own thread.

Freedom Fighters can mass murder,  so what his supporters want to call him matters not to me. 

Surely the context of what Mcguiness did as a "freedom fighter" makes the British Army's actions in Ireland relevant as well. 

[Newryrep]

6 hours ago, BlueGaz said:

Its not relevant here, its a different subject.  Its just a chance for some to get if off their chests again.  Maybe they dont get enough chances to voice it generally, so this gave them a platform.  Doesn't change the fact Martin was a mass murderer,

In the sense that he was directly indirectly responsible for innocent being killed  ?

delibertly targeted innocent victims ?

[MacTaz]

6 hours ago, Parklife said:

I never mentioned the Army being murderers   I've made two posts on this thread, the two you have quoted. 

My point was simply that the actions of the IRA (and McGuinness) have to be put in to context. The context being they were at war with the United Kingdom's Armed forces. I'm not interested in getting in to the who's right and who's wrong in the conflict. I'm simply stating that, as someone else put it in the thread, "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" 

 They were actually at war with the British Government , but let's ignore that for now. If they were at war with the British Armed  Forces why did they pit bombs in litter bins in city centres (Warrigton) Why did they plan to bomb a Tourist attraction in GIBRALTAR ?  Why did they bomb Pubs full of civilians in Birmingham and Guildford ? They also killed German civilians IN GERMANY and Australian tourists in Holland.  I can accept wearing a uniform made me a target  no problems , bring it on paddy . But There is no excuse for their campaign against the British public .  So the context is not much of an argument.  They bleat about Bloody Sunday (When in fact McGuiness himself admitted there were IRA guns on the street that day.) but believe it's aceptable to bomb civiians . As always with PIRA....... double standards. They wanted all their convicted terrorists released which they got and pardons for others on the run, but want British Soldiers dragged through the courts for supposed crimes 40 years ago. How does that work?  They may have had a case in 1916 but they lost the argument post 1969  given that British troops were initially deployed to protect the Catholic community from Loyalists burning them out of their homes. PIRA saw this as a usurping of their position or supposed position as protectors of the Catholic community and began their campaign of terror. Ironically they probably killed more of their own community than the Brits ever did. Punishment beatings, kneecappings, the "Disappeared"  (Something McGuiness failed to address by telling the families what happened to their loved ones. ) 

McGuiness will never be anything more than a murdering terrorist who only turned to the peace table when he knew his organisation was infiltrated as far as the IRA Council and he / they knew they were not going to win the shooting war.

 

[Parklife]

4 minutes ago, MacTaz said:

 They were actually at war with the British Government , but let's ignore that for now. If they were at war with the British Armed  Forces why did they pit bombs in litter bins in city centres (Warrigton) Why did they plan to bomb a Tourist attraction in GIBRALTAR ?  Why did they bomb Pubs full of civilians in Birmingham and Guildford ? They also killed German civilians IN GERMANY and Australian tourists in Holland.  I can accept wearing a uniform made me a target  no problems , bring it on paddy . But There is no excuse for their campaign against the British public .  So the context is not much of an argument.  They bleat about Bloody Sunday (When in fact McGuiness himself admitted there were IRA guns on the street that day.) but believe it's aceptable to bomb civiians . As always with PIRA....... double standards. They wanted all their convicted terrorists released which they got and pardons for others on the run, but want British Soldiers dragged through the courts for supposed crimes 40 years ago. How does that work?  They may have had a case in 1916 but they lost the argument post 1969  given that British troops were initially deployed to protect the Catholic community from Loyalists burning them out of their homes. PIRA saw this as a usurping of their position or supposed position as protectors of the Catholic community and began their campaign of terror. Ironically they probably killed more of their own community than the Brits ever did. Punishment beatings, kneecappings, the "Disappeared"  (Something McGuiness failed to address by telling the families what happened to their loved ones. ) 

McGuiness will never be anything more than a murdering terrorist who only turned to the peace table when he knew his organisation was infiltrated as far as the IRA Council and he / they knew they were not going to win the shooting war.

 

TL:DR 

The IRA should've just let the tyres down on army cars, that'd have shown the Brits. 

[ErsatzThistle]

4 minutes ago, MacTaz said:

 They were actually at war with the British Government , but let's ignore that for now. If they were at war with the British Armed  Forces why did they pit bombs in litter bins in city centres (Warrigton) Why did they plan to bomb a Tourist attraction in GIBRALTAR ?  Why did they bomb Pubs full of civilians in Birmingham and Guildford ? They also killed German civilians IN GERMANY and Australian tourists in Holland.  I can accept wearing a uniform made me a target  no problems , bring it on paddy . But There is no excuse for their campaign against the British public .  So the context is not much of an argument.  They bleat about Bloody Sunday (When in fact McGuiness himself admitted there were IRA guns on the street that day.) but believe it's aceptable to bomb civiians . As always with PIRA....... double standards. They wanted all their convicted terrorists released which they got and pardons for others on the run, but want British Soldiers dragged through the courts for supposed crimes 40 years ago. How does that work?  They may have had a case in 1916 but they lost the argument post 1969  given that British troops were initially deployed to protect the Catholic community from Loyalists burning them out of their homes. PIRA saw this as a usurping of their position or supposed position as protectors of the Catholic community and began their campaign of terror. Ironically they probably killed more of their own community than the Brits ever did. Punishment beatings, kneecappings, the "Disappeared"  (Something McGuiness failed to address by telling the families what happened to their loved ones. ) 

McGuiness will never be anything more than a murdering terrorist who only turned to the peace table when he knew his organisation was infiltrated as far as the IRA Council and he / they knew they were not going to win the shooting war.

 

Jesus Christ, who lets this guy have access to the internet ?

This is why I strongly encourage my young cousins never to join the armed forces. Don't want them ending up like that.

[Newryrep]

29 minutes ago, MacTaz said:

 They were actually at war with the British Government , but let's ignore that for now. If they were at war with the British Armed  Forces why did they pit bombs in litter bins in city centres (Warrigton) Why did they plan to bomb a Tourist attraction in GIBRALTAR ?  Why did they bomb Pubs full of civilians in Birmingham and Guildford ? They also killed German civilians IN GERMANY and Australian tourists in Holland.  I can accept wearing a uniform made me a target  no problems , bring it on paddy . But There is no excuse for their campaign against the British public .  So the context is not much of an argument.  They bleat about Bloody Sunday (When in fact McGuiness himself admitted there were IRA guns on the street that day.) but believe it's aceptable to bomb civiians . As always with PIRA....... double standards. They wanted all their convicted terrorists released which they got and pardons for others on the run, but want British Soldiers dragged through the courts for supposed crimes 40 years ago. How does that work?  They may have had a case in 1916 but they lost the argument post 1969  given that British troops were initially deployed to protect the Catholic community from Loyalists burning them out of their homes. PIRA saw this as a usurping of their position or supposed position as protectors of the Catholic community and began their campaign of terror. Ironically they probably killed more of their own community than the Brits ever did. Punishment beatings, kneecappings, the "Disappeared"  (Something McGuiness failed to address by telling the families what happened to their loved ones. ) 

McGuiness will never be anything more than a murdering terrorist who only turned to the peace table when he knew his organisation was infiltrated as far as the IRA Council and he / they knew they were not going to win the shooting war.

 

I have been on this board for a few years now so I know you are ex ? current ? BA and I am sure you could well have lost colleages during the conflict but I have a couple of observations

I thought it was  particulary irish trait to have no concept whatsoever of the opposing point of view but is appears to be universal even in the BA who for all their faults learn their lessons from history ( excluding Ireland)

and have you  ever genuinely looked at certain  actions of the BA/British Arms industry fully backed by the BA ?

 i would rather have been stopped by an English BA soldier everytime as opposed to the Uul Do Rightly local  variety as for one i knew they would rather be a million miles  from here rather than  stuck in this rain forsaken  place (scots could be hit or miss depending)

[Ormond]

I fvking love reading Mactaz's pish for a laugh. 

[andymac]

23 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Jesus Christ, who lets this guy have access to the internet ?

This is why I strongly encourage my young cousins never to join the armed forces. Don't want them ending up like that.

The same guys that let you get access. Difference being that you are just a self opinionated halfwit and other people have some experience to base their views, right or wrong.

[Toepoke]

Papers pandering to their markets...

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/inews.co.uk/essentials/daily-mails-irish-edition-different-view-martin-mcguinness/amp/

 

[MacTaz]

Same old pish from the same old people. McGuiness was a terrorist simple. To portray him as some kind of messiah is laughable. He not only murdered British soldiers and civilians. He was complicit in the disappearance of his own people who dared to defy him and his organisation. He turned to "peace maker " only when he realised that a) they were not going to win the armed struggle and b ) When the people he purported to represent no longer supported him. He was also about to be arrested for other killings at that time . 

He took to his grave information  on the final resting place of those he "disappeared" giving their families no closure or a chance to lay their loved ones to rest peacefully. 

A man of peace ? Aye right ....Feckin idiots ! 

[MacTaz]

On 22/03/2017 at 10:53 PM, Newryrep said:

I have been on this board for a few years now so I know you are ex ? current ? BA and I am sure you could well have lost colleages during the conflict but I have a couple of observations

I thought it was  particulary irish trait to have no concept whatsoever of the opposing point of view but is appears to be universal even in the BA who for all their faults learn their lessons from history ( excluding Ireland)

and have you  ever genuinely looked at certain  actions of the BA/British Arms industry fully backed by the BA ?

 i would rather have been stopped by an English BA soldier everytime as opposed to the Uul Do Rightly local  variety as for one i knew they would rather be a million miles  from here rather than  stuck in this rain forsaken  place (scots could be hit or miss depending)

I have a better idea of the views and goals of PIRA /INLA/OIRA/IRSP than most on this board. Given that I have actually met them face to face.  And of their colleagues on the other side UDA ./ UFF /UVF/ Red Hand Commando et al /  UDR I wouldn't have trusted as far as I could throw them.  

English troops rarely hand a proper grasp of the nuances of the conflict. Scots soldiers were usually well versed in them. If any gave you a hard time they were more than likely the same morons who stomp about banging big drums and flutes every July. Every bit as bitter and twisted as their orange bretheren across the pond. 

I am also conversant with the section of society that does it's damndest to discredit the British Army at every opportunity. 

One final point on McGuiness , the very fact that Blair and shagger Clinton are heaping praise on him should tell anyone everything they need to know about him. 

 

[Newryrep]

18 minutes ago, MacTaz said:

I have a better idea of the views and goals of PIRA /INLA/OIRA/IRSP than most on this board. Given that I have actually met them face to face.  And of their colleagues on the other side UDA ./ UFF /UVF/ Red Hand Commando et al /  UDR I wouldn't have trusted as far as I could throw them.  

English troops rarely hand a proper grasp of the nuances of the conflict. Scots soldiers were usually well versed in them. If any gave you a hard time they were more than likely the same morons who stomp about banging big drums and flutes every July. Every bit as bitter and twisted as their orange bretheren across the pond. 

I am also conversant with the section of society that does it's damndest to discredit the British Army at every opportunity. 

One final point on McGuiness , the very fact that Blair and shagger Clinton are heaping praise on him should tell anyone everything they need to know about him. 

 

afraid you didn't answer the two observations posed and your grasp of the reality is somewhat lacking if you believe the republican movement has delibertly withheld information on the locations of the disappeared.

The sad reality is those that may know are either dead or forgotten exactly where they were dumped, records either accurate or not were unlikely to be have kept. If the whereabouts were known it would be in the republican movement to divulge the info so it cant be used against them