SMcoolJ Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 15 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said: But he has looked interested, put in the effort and beaten players although end product has not been there but still merits a place in the side above Burke. In order to for Forrest to beat a player he would need the ball which he clearly doesn't want. He won't take responsibility. As for looking interested and putting in the effort - that is a pre-requisite for any player and hardly something to compliment Forrest on. He's not good enough. Burke may not be the finished article, but he's happy to take the ball and try things. Forrest does't merit inclusion in the squad, let alone the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 19 minutes ago, SMcoolJ said: In order to for Forrest to beat a player he would need the ball which he clearly doesn't want. He won't take responsibility. As for looking interested and putting in the effort - that is a pre-requisite for any player and hardly something to compliment Forrest on. He's not good enough. Burke may not be the finished article, but he's happy to take the ball and try things. Forrest does't merit inclusion in the squad, let alone the team. Sorry I have seen precious little of Burke doing things with the ball. Another reason for Forrest over Burke is that Forrest is a regular starter for his club whilst Burke isn't. Don't get me wrong I am not a Forrest fan but I can see why he is preferred at the moment (to Burke). Hopefully, Burke will make that final step up and break into his club and Scotland side but at present he is not there yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMcoolJ Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 3 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: Sorry I have seen precious little of Burke doing things with the ball. Another reason for Forrest over Burke is that Forrest is a regular starter for his club whilst Burke isn't. Don't get me wrong I am not a Forrest fan but I can see why he is preferred at the moment (to Burke). Hopefully, Burke will make that final step up and break into his club and Scotland side but at present he is not there yet. I agree with players playing regularly being a better option. And don't get me wrong either, I'm not in the Burke must play, he is the messiah mold. He was very poor against Canada - as was the entire team. But I think when he's poor it's at least in a different way to Forrest - he wants the ball and tries things. I wouldn't be starting either of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 17 hours ago, Lobey said: The more I see of Chris Martin the more I find myself being reminded of Andy Ritchie. Presumably you're referring to his physique? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Scot Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 The original comment was about Burke not making the bench. The debate has then been argued on why he shouldnt be starting. The bench for international matches is huge. No reason why Burke shouldnt have been given a place on the bench. Even if it wasnt the intention of playing him at any point it gives him experience and also gives the manager the option of bringing him on if the game dictated it. Ie if they played a really high line and we wanted pace to go in behind. We named 2 keepers on the bench. Can anybody give me a reason why you would have a 3rd gk rather than another outfield option? Most countrys in the world recognise young talent and bring them through accordingly. Wales for example had the likes of Ramsay and Bale in at a younger age and were getting humped all the time. They did so because they knew that in the years to come both players would be key for them and when that day came they would have loads of experience. We have a player who has the physical assets to be a top top player. He has moved for a Scottish transfer record fee, is getting game time albeit limited in one of the top 4 leagues at at team who are 2nd top of that league. What do we do with this player? Treat him with utter contempt. Send him home mid way through an international week and then dont let him get stripped for another, instead having a 3rd gk on the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rude Gullit Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 10 hours ago, Diamond Scot said: The original comment was about Burke not making the bench. The debate has then been argued on why he shouldnt be starting. The bench for international matches is huge. No reason why Burke shouldnt have been given a place on the bench. Even if it wasnt the intention of playing him at any point it gives him experience and also gives the manager the option of bringing him on if the game dictated it. Ie if they played a really high line and we wanted pace to go in behind. We named 2 keepers on the bench. Can anybody give me a reason why you would have a 3rd gk rather than another outfield option? Most countrys in the world recognise young talent and bring them through accordingly. Wales for example had the likes of Ramsay and Bale in at a younger age and were getting humped all the time. They did so because they knew that in the years to come both players would be key for them and when that day came they would have loads of experience. We have a player who has the physical assets to be a top top player. He has moved for a Scottish transfer record fee, is getting game time albeit limited in one of the top 4 leagues at at team who are 2nd top of that league. What do we do with this player? Treat him with utter contempt. Send him home mid way through an international week and then dont let him get stripped for another, instead having a 3rd gk on the bench. It's inexplicable. How on earth can it be helpful to the player or the squad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 The time to get aerated is if Strachan stops giving him chances. That hasn't happened at present and he hasn't done anything (yet) to merit being involved in such a crunch game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenmcn Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said: The time to get aerated is if Strachan stops giving him chances. That hasn't happened at present and he hasn't done anything (yet) to merit being involved in such a crunch game. It's not much of a chance though. Why didn't Strachan do like he said in an interview, use him as an impact player. Instead, he starts him in a makeshift team and out of position, on a terrible pitch then subs him after 45 mins. Yet game after game we've still got to watch Forrest do nothing for 65-70 mins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Just now, stevenmcn said: It's not much of a chance though. Why didn't Strachan do like he said in an interview, use him as an impact player. Instead, he starts him in a makeshift team and out of position, on a terrible pitch then subs him after 45 mins. Yet game after game we've still got to watch Forrest do nothing for 65-70 mins. I don't see what the difference is. He started the match against hardly glittering opposition and still failed to make an impact. That is the hard facts. That coupled with the fact that he is not a first team regular and still green is why he never featured against Slovenia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenmcn Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 You don't see what the difference is? Oh, ok then. Snodgrass featured against Slovenia, but was crap against the same team, should he have played? Cairney looked good against Canada, plays week in week out for his club. Shouldn't be have played against Slovenia? A chance for Burke would have been giving him the last 25mins in his proper position to attack a tiring and booked left back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reevesy Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 4 minutes ago, stevenmcn said: Cairney looked good against Canada, plays week in week out for his club. Shouldn't be have played against Slovenia? Not at the expense of Stuart Armstrong, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 4 minutes ago, Reevesy said: Not at the expense of Stuart Armstrong, no. Stuart Armstrong should've been given a chance 2 years ago. The fact that Strachan has only just given him his debut, sums up Strachan's incompetence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Just now, Parklife said: Stuart Armstrong should've been given a chance 2 years ago. The fact that Strachan has only just given him his debut, sums up Strachan's incompetence. He should and Cairney should about 4 years ago also. Funnily enough several of our regulars should've been binned between 2-4 years ago aswell..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 9 minutes ago, stevenmcn said: You don't see what the difference is? Oh, ok then. Snodgrass featured against Slovenia, but was crap against the same team, should he have played? Cairney looked good against Canada, plays week in week out for his club. Shouldn't be have played against Slovenia? A chance for Burke would have been giving him the last 25mins in his proper position to attack a tiring and booked left back. Snodgrass has proven his worth before for us. Okay not been sparkling of late but who has? The key is that he has proven himself before at this level hence why he gets the chance and Burke unproven at this level doesn't. No I am happy it was Anya who came on against Slovenia as I thought he was one of the better players V Canada. Burke's time will come - just now now. FFS I sound like the Wicked Witch of the South. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenmcn Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 6 minutes ago, Reevesy said: Not at the expense of Stuart Armstrong, no. I didn't think so either. Was just showing Caledonian Craig his flawed logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reevesy Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Just now, Parklife said: Stuart Armstrong should've been given a chance 2 years ago. The fact that Strachan has only just given him his debut, sums up Strachan's incompetence. Yes when he was at Dundee United and his first half season at Celtic he should have been called up, His form did dip for a while though in fairness, mainly due to be played out of position by Ronny Deila, but was still worth a squad place at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 9 minutes ago, stevenmcn said: I didn't think so either. Was just showing Caledonian Craig his flawed logic. No my logic says don't play an unproven player at international level in a crunch must win match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Just now, Caledonian Craig said: No my logic says don't play an unproven player at international level in a crunch must win match. Like Tierney or Armstrong? Our 2 best players the other night. Good logic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reevesy Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Just now, Caledonian Craig said: No my logic says don't play an unproven player at international level in a crunch must win match. We did and he won motm tbf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, Parklife said: Like Tierney or Armstrong? Our 2 best players the other night. Good logic Big difference though. Both are first team regulars and have more experience at club level. Burke is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, Reevesy said: We did and he won motm tbf Perhaps says more about Armstrong and that he is up to international football at present whilst Burke is not. After all Burke has had his chances already and not put in a MOTM performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reevesy Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said: Perhaps says more about Armstrong and that he is up to international football at present whilst Burke is not. After all Burke has had his chances already and not put in a MOTM performance. A bit harsh to say he's had his chances already. How many minutes has he clocked up with his 4 caps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
er yir macaroon Posted March 29, 2017 Author Share Posted March 29, 2017 4 minutes ago, Reevesy said: A bit harsh to say he's had his chances already. How many minutes has he clocked up with his 4 caps? Burke will be fine, he needs a year or two to gain league experience but he should still get some minutes for us in the interim. Glenn Middleton looks a fearsome prospect and i can see him playing on the other wing from Burke in a year or two. Cue derision, but it will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 6 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: Perhaps says more about Armstrong and that he is up to international football at present whilst Burke is not. After all Burke has had his chances already and not put in a MOTM performance. Going by that 'logic' how has James Forrest amassed 17 caps? DO NOT COME BACK! Sorry i know that wasn't you i still just find it pretty amusing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenmcn Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 20 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: No my logic says don't play an unproven player at international level in a crunch must win match. What, like Forrest 19 minutes ago, Parklife said: Like Tierney or Armstrong? Our 2 best players the other night. Good logic But, but, but, there's a difference, as long as it's suits his argument 16 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: Big difference though. Both are first team regulars and have more experience at club level. Burke is not. See. So is Forrest. 17 caps, no MOM awards, no goals 4 minutes ago, ProudScot said: Going by that 'logic' how has James Forrest amassed 17 caps? Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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