Team v England

[vanderark14]

Re your proper support comment, are you new to football? 

Is there a support anywhere in the world who would encourage in the way you describe? 

Ill have to agree to disagree you regarding must win games, I beleve this is a must win game, I'm amazed anyone would treat it as anything but a must win.we must win win because it gives us a stronger chance of qualifying, we must win it because it's our oldest rivals.......... I'm niot sure why anyone would think any different. 

 

[WeLuvIrnBru]

27 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Re your proper support comment, are you new to football? 

Is there a support anywhere in the world who would encourage in the way you describe? 

Ill have to agree to disagree you regarding must win games, I beleve this is a must win game, I'm amazed anyone would treat it as anything but a must win.we must win win because it gives us a stronger chance of qualifying, we must win it because it's our oldest rivals.......... I'm niot sure why anyone would think any different. 

 

I agree.  This match is undoubtedly a must win.  Even if we finish 2nd there is a very real possibility that we will be the worst runner up and therefore not even get into the playoffs.   We need to take as close to the maximum points available to us to have even a chance of the playoffs. 

[Boynze]

if we are to have any chance of qualifying, given the points dropped already in the group, we need to win the game. mathematically not a 'must win' but with the games that are remaining we should be aiming for and building our approach and tactics on the day around winning the game.

[Guest BlueGaz]

The way things have gone in recent years and how unpredictable we can be in games that should be good wins for us, every competitive game should be treated as a must win, until such time we are in a position to be able to relax a bit.  Only then should be maybe blood youngsters, fringe players,  up and coming etc.  It should be all out to win with the strongest possible team until qualified (or not to lose with the capability to break against the top teams).

Friendlies can be used to try different tactics, try new players, try systems etc.

Edited May 9, 2017 by BlueGaz

[Bino's]

it's the coaching staff that set the mood in the camp

if they go in saying it's a must win then we have go forward like we did in the first half v Slovenia

 

if they go in saying it isn't then players will look to protect and we'll get beat

[andyD]

a lot of you folks seem to think "not must win" means "dont give a crap".. but hey ho.. we'll just agree to disagree on our understanding of words.

vanderark14:
"Is there a support anywhere in the world who would encourage in the way you describe?"

I've heard a couple of English Premier League and English Championship managers ask fans to do exactly this in the last year, and when I've seen the fans do it, it really does make a difference.

[andyD]

3 minutes ago, Bino's said:

it's the coaching staff that set the mood in the camp

if they go in saying it's a must win then we have go forward like we did in the first half v Slovenia

if they go in saying it isn't then players will look to protect and we'll get beat

I think that's an incredibly simplistic and slightly naive viewpoint. Will just have to disagree, mate.

[vanderark14]

5 minutes ago, Bino's said:

it's the coaching staff that set the mood in the camp

if they go in saying it's a must win then we have go forward like we did in the first half v Slovenia

 

if they go in saying it isn't then players will look to protect and we'll get beat

which is exactly why dour faced Mcghee needs to be shipped out. 

2 minutes ago, andyD said:

a lot of you folks seem to think "not must win" means "dont give a crap".. but hey ho.. we'll just agree to disagree on our understanding of words.

vanderark14:
"Is there a support anywhere in the world who would encourage in the way you describe?"

I've heard a couple of English Premier League and English Championship managers ask fans to do exactly this in the last year, and when I've seen the fans do it, it really does make a difference.

Thats not what any of us think "not must win" means

What examples do you have of this new found way of supporting the team?

You used the Forrest as an example, I don't any amount of encouragement is going to make him cross the ball to a scotland player or stop him running the ball out of play because he's not good enough. 

[andyD]

1 minute ago, vanderark14 said:

 

You used the Forrest as an example, I don't any amount of encouragement is going to make him cross the ball to a scotland player or stop him running the ball out of play because he's not good enough. 

Then you don't know much about folk, sadly.

A while back Strachan got in hot water with the fans for saying we had a nation of scared footballers. We can debate whether he was right to say it, but on the content, i think it's fair to say we'd all agree with him. We had a team which just shifted the ball on as soon as possible, cos if they don't have the ball, they can't make a mistake and if they make a mistake they'll get the crowd on their back. The power of a negative crowd should be obvious to everyone. Players start to play within themselves, they're more tense, snatch chances, don't play the pass they should, aren't as focused on the match as they should be. That's all just human nature.

But the inverse is also true. If that fear is not on them, and the crowd is behind them then they work harder, they'll be more willing to play 1st touch and they'll try the seemingly riskier things which they should have tried but didn't before. It's fairly obvious psychology.

You're right in so much as it won't make Forrest or Anya technically better at crossing, but it means that they're more likely to be there and doing it. And we can only win by being there and doing it.

There's a reason why James Forrest has played 44, started 36 for Celtic, scored 8 goals and has 13 assist for them this season, yet has just 1 assist in 17 caps for Scotland, and that reason will be what's going on in his head. For Scotland he's in the Chris Martin camp of being lucky if he doesn't get booed onto the pitch, and for us he fails to do things that he does fairly easily in a Celtic shirt. While all the Celtic fan's don't love Forrest, he's one of theirs and he's got the confidence to play in front of them.

You could argue that's a reason not to call him up, and I think that's fair. But i think a few of our lads have issues where their heads overly affect what they're doing on the pitch. Bannan, Berra, Hanley, McArthur, Naismith, Maritn. They've all had more than a few games where they're just been 'off', where their heads have interfered with what they're doing on the pitch. You can't just drop them all, and with Forrest, he's still only 25. He's still relatively young and he's had a good season under a proper manager (probably his first such season, given that Mowbray, Lennon and Deila are all highly questionable), so you've got to hope he can somehow win over the Tartan Army and produce his club form for his country.

[vanderark14]

5 minutes ago, andyD said:

Then you don't know much about folk, sadly.

A while back Strachan got in hot water with the fans for saying we had a nation of scared footballers. We can debate whether he was right to say it, but on the content, i think it's fair to say we'd all agree with him. We had a team which just shifted the ball on as soon as possible, cos if they don't have the ball, they can't make a mistake and if they make a mistake they'll get the crowd on their back. The power of a negative crowd should be obvious to everyone. Players start to play within themselves, they're more tense, snatch chances, don't play the pass they should, aren't as focused on the match as they should be. That's all just human nature.

But the inverse is also true. If that fear is not on them, and the crowd is behind them then they work harder, they'll be more willing to play 1st touch and they'll try the seemingly riskier things which they should have tried but didn't before. It's fairly obvious psychology.

You're right in so much as it won't make Forrest or Anya technically better at crossing, but it means that they're more likely to be there and doing it. And we can only win by being there and doing it.

There's a reason why James Forrest has played 44, started 36 for Celtic, scored 8 goals and has 13 assist for them this season, yet has just 1 assist in 17 caps for Scotland, and that reason will be what's going on in his head. For Scotland he's in the Chris Martin camp of being lucky if he doesn't get booed onto the pitch, and for us he fails to do things that he does fairly easily in a Celtic shirt. While all the Celtic fan's don't love Forrest, he's one of theirs and he's got the confidence to play in front of them.

You could argue that's a reason not to call him up, and I think that's fair. But i think a few of our lads have issues where their heads overly affect what they're doing on the pitch. Bannan, Berra, Hanley, McArthur, Naismith, Maritn. They've all had more than a few games where they're just been 'off', where their heads have interfered with what they're doing on the pitch. You can't just drop them all, and with Forrest, he's still only 25. He's still relatively young and he's had a good season under a proper manager (probably his first such season, given that Mowbray, Lennon and Deila are all highly questionable), so you've got to hope he can somehow win over the Tartan Army and produce his club form for his country.

so either I don't know or I am right? which is it?

for clarity, I meant encouragement won't make Forrest any better technically, I'm not stupid enough believe encouragement won't spur people on. Forrest benefits from having much poorer opposition when he plays for celtic, his team is far superior to the situation of playing for Scotland it is a step up from playing against Aberdeen, ICT or Hamilton. 

back on topic, the England match is a must win game. that can't be argued against.

[andyD]

1 minute ago, vanderark14 said:

so either I don't know or I am right? which is it?

for clarity, I meant encouragement won't make Forrest any better technically, I'm not stupid enough believe encouragement won't spur people on. Forrest benefits from having much poorer opposition when he plays for celtic, his team is far superior to the situation of playing for Scotland it is a step up from playing against Aberdeen, ICT or Hamilton. 

back on topic, the England match is a must win game. that can't be argued against.

I get the impression you're being a wee bit pissy.. which means i cant really be bothered to continue with the conversation. You win the internet, congrats.

 

[vanderark14]

Just now, andyD said:

I get the impression you're being a wee bit pissy.. which means i cant really be bothered to continue with the conversation. You win the internet, congrats.

 

no need to sulk, I'm not getting pissy at all

What do I get for winning the internet?

[Geed]

My line up for England game

-------------------------------Gordon

Tierney------------Martin-------------Mulgrew-----------Robertson

------------------------Brown----------D.Fletcher

-----------Morrison----------Armstrong--------Snodgrass

-----------------------------------Griffiths

[Ally Bongo]

All of the Sellick team that qualifies to play for Scotland and a couple of others would be my team

[vanderark14]

Gordon

Tierney         Traffic Cone           lamp post    Robertson

                     Brown             Fletcher

Fraser           Armstrong                      Burke

                        Griffiths

[ErsatzThistle]

2 hours ago, Geed said:

My line up for England game

-------------------------------Gordon

Tierney------------Martin-------------Mulgrew-----------Robertson

------------------------Brown----------D.Fletcher

-----------Morrison----------Armstrong--------Snodgrass

-----------------------------------Griffiths

Swap Darren Fletcher for James McArthur and that would be my team.

Sadly, I have a nasty hunch that Strachan will bottle it and drop Armstong from the line up. Same too with one of either Tierney or Robertson, he'll play Anya coming at right back.

And bloody Forrest will still get a fawking game 

[Bino's]

On ‎04‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 0:29 PM, Bino's said:

----------------Gordon--------------------

Tierney-Martin-Mulgrew-Robertson 

-----------Brown-McGregor------------

Forrest-----Armstrong----Snodgrass 

----------------Griffiths-------------------

as many of the Celtic team as possible

 

tell them its a must win

 

coaching team say its a must win in the press

 

get out there and get in their faces and press the game from the first minute

[Geed]

17 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Swap Darren Fletcher for James McArthur and that would be my team.

Sadly, I have a nasty hunch that Strachan will bottle it and drop Armstong from the line up. Same too with one of either Tierney or Robertson, he'll play Anya coming at right back.

And bloody Forrest will still get a fawking game 

Would have McArthur as well instead of Darren Fletcher but its a certainty he wont start and Fletcher will play.   Would also have Fraser instead of Morrison but again Morrison will start.  I fully expect that to be the line up barring injuries.

[the_fadiator]

I think Strachan's comments after the Canada game might be the most significant of his time as manager. He wasn't quite right given who was playing regularly, but the overall point was that he was going to the Slovenia game with confident, on-form players. It worked and has given us a glimmer. I expect he'll do the same again and that means 5-7 Celtic players starting.

"When you're not playing regularly, you lose that couple of yards' pace, you lose that wee touch, you lose that finishing that you would normally have. That's what happened to us tonight.

"It's very hard. It's like asking a top golfer to be out for six, seven weeks and go and try and play in the Masters.

"It helps us make sure we have to pick a bunch of lads, a group of lads who are feeling really good about themselves at the moment. Has it made my mind up with one or two things? Yes, it has, yeah."

[andyD]

If Fletcher plays, we'll lose.. probably badly.

[Rude Gullit]

3 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

Gordon

Tierney         Traffic Cone           lamp post    Robertson

                     Brown             Fletcher

Fraser           Armstrong                      Burke

                        Griffiths

I like the attacking half of this team but it is Hellishly inexperienced - 6 caps between the 3 AMs? 

All three should have been used more before now (and played in a friendly pretty england). We're our own worst enemy.

[noctonjock]

6 hours ago, Geed said:

My line up for England game

-------------------------------Gordon

Tierney------------Martin-------------Mulgrew-----------Robertson

------------------------Brown----------D.Fletcher

-----------Morrison----------Armstrong--------Snodgrass

-----------------------------------Griffiths

No pace apart from Griffiths. We would spend the whole game on the back foot 

[Rude Gullit]

7 minutes ago, noctonjock said:

No pace apart from Griffiths. We would spend the whole game on the back foot 

Agreed. Still have no idea why Strachan jettisoned the pace players for the slovakia game. And the complete bombing out of Burke is still bewildering.

[er yir macaroon]

1 hour ago, noctonjock said:

No pace apart from Griffiths. We would spend the whole game on the back foot 

Agreed in general, although Armstrong is very quick, quicker than Griffiths.

[ProudScot]

12 hours ago, Rude Gullit said:

Agreed. Still have no idea why Strachan jettisoned the pace players for the slovakia game. And the complete bombing out of Burke is still bewildering.

Strachan completely ballsed that game up massively and made a fairly ordinary opponent with a few very good players admittedly, look like a top European side.