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Just found the programme from this match. Friday 8th Decemebr 2006 at York City.   England won 2-1.

England squad;  Declan Rudd. Wesley Fodderingham. Adam Smith. Chris Solly. Thomas Cruise. Jack Rodwell. David Brown. Nicky Ajose. Oliver Norwood. Mitchell McPike. Harry Forrester. John Bostok. Dean Parrett. Ryan Mason. Sean Highdale. Sanchez Watt. James Ellison. Nathan Delfouneso. 

Scotland squad; James Wood. Grant Adam. Stephen Forbes. Scott Durie. Daniel Wilson. David McAuliffe. John Fleck. Daniel Thomson. Jamie Ness. Gordon Smith. Alex Cooper. Gregg Wylde. Michael O'Halloran. Archie Campbell. Sean Fitzharis. Robert McHugh. David Love. Ryan Martin.  

Goals - Nicky Ajose and Nathan Delfouneso for England and Robert McHugh for Scotland.  

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Not many names that made it there.

Only ones that stick out are John Fleck (Sheffield United), Michael O'Halloran (Rangers), Gregg Wylde (Rangers, Bolton, Aberdeen, St Mirren etc think he is at Plymouth Argyle now?), Jamie Ness (he was one of the first to annoy the old-co Rangers when he joined Stoke IIRC?) and McHugh (Falkirk)

Alex Cooper IIRC is Neale Coopers kid who went from Ross County to Liverpool, before heading back up to Ross County, also Scott Durie is Gordon Durie's kid (not sure where he is).

Could not name any of the rest.

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John Bostok, he was touting himself for a call up about 2 years ago (think McGhee mentioned him in a newspaper as a "mystery player" that Strachan was looking at) but think he is now with Trinidad and Tabago.

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2 hours ago, wanderer said:

John Bostok, he was touting himself for a call up about 2 years ago (think McGhee mentioned him in a newspaper as a "mystery player" that Strachan was looking at) but think he is now with Trinidad and Tabago.

John Bostock was being touted as the next big thing for England at around this time.  A controversial £700k move from Palace to Spurs when he was 16 saw to that.

The fact that the majority of the players in both the Scotland and England teams have completely fallen by the wayside shows exactly why people shouldn't get excited about 16 year boy-wonders regardless of which club's youth system they are at.   Players that stand out at that level and come through to full international level are very much the exception and not the rule.

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2 hours ago, aaid said:

John Bostock was being touted as the next big thing for England at around this time.  A controversial £700k move from Palace to Spurs when he was 16 saw to that.

The fact that the majority of the players in both the Scotland and England teams have completely fallen by the wayside shows exactly why people shouldn't get excited about 16 year boy-wonders regardless of which club's youth system they are at.   Players that stand out at that level and come through to full international level are very much the exception and not the rule.

:ok:True. I will try and find some more programmes from youth games I have attended and post them up here. 

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Remember watching the games that year on sky on a Friday night and being rather excited by a few of the players, Fleck being the obvious one who I could not believe how good he was at that age. How times change. Didn't recall o'halloran in that team at the time. Where on earth is Jamie ness now? Scored a beezer v Celtic a few years ago. 

Totally agree though, looking good at that level means feck all affectivelly- so many hurdles to overcome still at that age.

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11 hours ago, PASTA Mick said:

Is there any hope of Danny Wilson getting back on track? Still only 25 and has a decent amount of experience. 

To be fair in his last few starts he's looked okay, including the old firm.

See how he gets on next year. 

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13 hours ago, PASTA Mick said:

Is there any hope of Danny Wilson getting back on track? Still only 25 and has a decent amount of experience. 

He should concentrate on becoming an established first pick in an average SPFL Premiership defence, before we think about him for Scotland. He's not looked international class for about 5 years now, unfortunately. 

It's surprising to me how few of those players have become full internationals - just 3 by my reckoning? Ryan Mason and Jack Rodwell for England and Danny Wilson for us. 

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19 hours ago, JECK said:

Where on earth is Jamie ness now? Scored a beezer v Celtic a few years ago. 

Totally agree though, looking good at that level means feck all affectivelly- so many hurdles to overcome still at that age.

Shorpe. 

Apparently the swear filter doesn't allow S.c.unthorpe United 

Edited by BremnerLorimerGray
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6 minutes ago, BremnerLorimerGray said:

Shorpe. 

Apparently the swear filter doesn't allow S.c.unthorpe United 

:lol: 

Yeah, i noticed that the other day.

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58 minutes ago, Parklife said:

He should concentrate on becoming an established first pick in an average SPFL Premiership defence, before we think about him for Scotland. He's not looked international class for about 5 years now, unfortunately. 

It's surprising to me how few of those players have become full internationals - just 3 by my reckoning? Ryan Mason and Jack Rodwell for England and Danny Wilson for us. 

I suspect that if you looked at U16 squads over the last 20 years - actually probably a lot further back than that - you'd find that they generally average around 1 or 2 full internationals. 

There's a couple of reasons for that, firstly there are any number of reasons why promising youth players don't develop as you might hope.  

Secondly, players develop at different paces and so some of the current internationals may not have been considered good enough at youth level.

i don't see that as a problem per-se but more the general nature of youth development.

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12 minutes ago, aaid said:

I suspect that if you looked at U16 squads over the last 20 years - actually probably a lot further back than that - you'd find that they generally average around 1 or 2 full internationals. 

There's a couple of reasons for that, firstly there are any number of reasons why promising youth players don't develop as you might hope.  

Secondly, players develop at different paces and so some of the current internationals may not have been considered good enough at youth level.

i don't see that as a problem per-se but more the general nature of youth development.

Yeah i take your point  but it does seem like Scotland especially have a particularly poor record in converting promising young players to full internationals. 

Take our under 19 side that got to the final of the European Championships. From our final line-up we have 3 full internationals (including the injured Steven Fletcher) plus 3 or 4 who've had decent careers (good SPFL Premiership standard players). Where as the Spain side we lost to have 5 full internationals and another 7 or 8 who've had good careers (La Liga players). 

I appreciate that this is a small sample and Spain may be performing way above average here. 

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55 minutes ago, Parklife said:

Yeah i take your point  but it does seem like Scotland especially have a particularly poor record in converting promising young players to full internationals. 

Take our under 19 side that got to the final of the European Championships. From our final line-up we have 3 full internationals (including the injured Steven Fletcher) plus 3 or 4 who've had decent careers (good SPFL Premiership standard players). Where as the Spain side we lost to have 5 full internationals and another 7 or 8 who've had good careers (La Liga players). 

I appreciate that this is a small sample and Spain may be performing way above average here. 

 

 

Celtic very guilty of not giving developing talent a chance

 

 

FINAL LINE UP

 

GK 1 Andrew McNeil (Hibs)

RB 2 Andrew Cave-Brown (Norwich)

CB 6 Scott Cuthbert (c) (Celtic)

CB 19 Jamie Adams (Killie)

LB 3 Lee Wallace (Hearts)

RM 7 Simon Ferry (Celtic)

CM 16 Greg Cameron  (Dundee Utd)

CM 4 Charles Grant (Celtic)

CM 15 Ryan Conroy  (Celtic)

LM 10 Michael McGlinchey (Celtic)

CF 8 Calum Elliot (Hearts)

Substitutes:

GK 12 Scott Fox (Celtic)

DF 18 Mark Reynolds (Motherwell)

DF 5 Garry Kenneth (Dundee Utd)

MF 17 Brian Gilmour  (Rangers)

FW 14 Graham Dorrans (Livi)

 

SQUAD

 

1

1GK

Andrew McNeil

 

Hibernian

2

2DF

Andrew Cave-Brown

 

Norwich City

3

3MF

Lee Wallace

 

Hearts

4

3MF

Charles Grant

 

Celtic

5

2DF

Garry Kenneth

 

Dundee United

6

2DF

Scott Cuthbert

 

Celtic

7

3MF

Simon Ferry

 

Celtic

8

4FW

Calum Elliot

 

Hearts

9

4FW

Steven Fletcher

 

Hibernian

10

3MF

Michael McGlinchey[3]

 

Celtic

11

4FW

Robert Snodgrass

 

Livingston

12

1GK

Scott Fox

 

Celtic

14

4FW

Graham Dorrans

 

Livingston

15

3MF

Ryan Conroy

 

Celtic

16

3MF

Greg Cameron

 

Dundee United

17

3MF

Brian Gilmour

 

Rangers

18

2DF

Mark Reynolds

 

Motherwell

19

2DF

Jamie Adams

 

Kilmarnock

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1 hour ago, Parklife said:

Yeah i take your point  but it does seem like Scotland especially have a particularly poor record in converting promising young players to full internationals. 

Take our under 19 side that got to the final of the European Championships. From our final line-up we have 3 full internationals (including the injured Steven Fletcher) plus 3 or 4 who've had decent careers (good SPFL Premiership standard players). Where as the Spain side we lost to have 5 full internationals and another 7 or 8 who've had good careers (La Liga players). 

I appreciate that this is a small sample and Spain may be performing way above average here. 

I think you'd really need to look at more examples, also for obvious reasons we're only really focuses on Scotland.  Spain isn't really a very good comparison even just due to the size of population.  You'd need to look at similar sized Northern European countries to get a fair comparison of how successful or otherwise we are.  I guess someone will mention Iceland which is a fair point, but you'd need to look at whether we're failing badly or they are punching way above their weight.

I think there are fundamental differences between U16s and U19/U20s.  At U16s, you are looking at players with potential to become a professional.  By the time you get U19/U20s, all the players - for whatever reason - that looked good at U16 but didn't have what it takes to become a pro have fallen by the way, you're talking about people who have demonstrated they have what it takes to be a pro, it's then a matter of what sort of pro and how successful they will be.

Don't get me wrong, the work - and mindset - required to become a top pro starts a lot earlier but IMHO, that's the point where you want to look to kick on.

I actually think that group from the U19s in 2006 is a pretty good return.  Snodgrass has been a very important player for us and both Fletcher and Wallace should both have had a lot more caps than they did due to reasons that had nothing at all to do with their abilities as players. 

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Thing with U17-U19, anyone of genuine real talent at that age is fast forwarded to U21 team and on brink of main team a lot of time.

England are a good example of this, as a lot of their "star" young players hardly made a dent in the U17-U21's as they were getting selected for the first team at 18/19 (how many times do you hear them moaning that they have a chance of winning a U19 or U21 tournament, but can not select the best players because they are in contention for the main squad in a tournament that summer).

 

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5 hours ago, Boynze said:

i think that both greg Cameron and Charlie grant both had to quit through injury?

And Kenneth albeit a bit later. Cameron was being compared to Narey by Jim McLean and as midfielder scored hat trick at Pittodrie whilst still a teenager but yes injury got the better of him

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