Joey Barton Banned for 18 months

[Dalgety Bay TA]

1 hour ago, sbcmfc said:

 

The problem is the grey areas, which is why the zero tolerance makes sense.

Someone who plays for Albion Rovers betting on the champions league final is at one end of the spectrum, but someone from Albion Rovers betting on Airdrie to lose because he knows they've 5 players on backshift...

Whats wrong with anyone having an edge over the bookies? 99% of the time they will have more information that you. There is nothing wrong with you knowing, and then betting, on something you know that they don't and haven't factored into their price. That's their fault IMO. 

1 hour ago, Parklife said:

How would that be policed? Sounds like a hell of a lot of work, even if given full access to all player accounts by betting firms.

It's easier, simpler and creates no grey areas if all footballers are banned from betting on football.  

Put it in a players contract? Has to disclose any betting accounts they have and have to provide a periodic statement of their bets to the club? It would also maybe assist those who actually have genuine gambling problems having it recognised by the club and some help given to them. 

 

I have to disclose any broker accounts that myself and my wife have to my work and get approval for any transactions I do on them beforehand. Its just a requirement of being able to buy/sell shares in my industry and the rules I have to stick by. If you don't want to bet/trade don't have a a bookie/broker, if you do, comply by the rules.

 

 

Barton's statement is good and puts a bit of context to the offences. He also makes a good point that football/the FA are opposed to players gambling on football but happy to have bookmaker involvement at nearly every level of football. If they were really so opposed to it then they would cut all ties with bookies. 

 

http://www.joeybarton.com/betting-statement/

[Parklife]

2 minutes ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

 

Put it in a players contract? Has to disclose any betting accounts they have and have to provide a periodic statement of their bets to the club? It would also maybe assist those who actually have genuine gambling problems having it recognised by the club and some help given to them. 

So football clubs have to check these for every player they have? Sounds like it could be a full time job. You're then asking football players to be honest enough to disclose the account and the club honest enough to grass on their own players if required. 

The rule is simple. Don't gamble on football. If it's that important to a player to do it, then they should find another job. 

2 minutes ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

Barton's statement is good and puts a bit of context to the offences. He also makes a good point that football/the FA are opposed to players gambling on football but happy to have bookmaker involvement at nearly every level of football. If they were really so opposed to it then they would cut all ties with bookies. 

http://www.joeybarton.com/betting-statement/

I don't see that it has much relevance. Football rules aren't making a moral judgement on gambling, their simply attempting to protect sporting integrity and avoid conflicts of interest. They're not banning footballers from betting for moral reasons. 

 

[Dalgety Bay TA]

33 minutes ago, Parklife said:

 

I don't see that it has much relevance. Football rules aren't making a moral judgement on gambling, their simply attempting to protect sporting integrity and avoid conflicts of interest. They're not banning footballers from betting for moral reasons. 

 

There is no harm to sporting integrity or conflict of interest in any way if Joey Barton, or some random player from Fleetwood Town, has a bet on Palace v Spurs tonight. The pair of them have as much influence on the outcome of the game as you or I do. 

[sbcmfc]

Football teams are sponsored by lager/cider/whiskey is that a valid reason for the players playing drunk?

i do see your point Dalgety Bay, but a zero tolerance removes any grey areas, as footballers are too stupid to know where the line is.

Betting on your team to lose or your team mate (samaras  ) not too score crosses any notional line even if you're not playing.

[Parklife]

10 minutes ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

There is no harm to sporting integrity or conflict of interest in any way if Joey Barton, or some random player from Fleetwood Town, has a bet on Palace v Spurs tonight. The pair of them have as much influence on the outcome of the game as you or I do. 

Cool. I'm sure we all have to deal with rules that we don't agree with in our workplace. Mr Barton and some random player from Fleetwood both have the freedom to find alternative employment if they want to bet on Palace vs Spurs. 

As i said in the part of my post you cut out, administering the rules you seem to want would be a nightmare and very time-consuming and costly. For that reason, i totally agree with the current rules. It's a very small sacrifice to be able to play professional football and one that every player is well aware of. 

[euan2020]

wonder how much of his contract Rangers paid up - they could have sat tight 

[Big Col]

 

[Stu101]

1 hour ago, euan2020 said:

wonder how much of his contract Rangers paid up - they could have sat tight 

zero.

[Stu101]

4 hours ago, ShedTA said:

in Scotland is it not a complete ban on betting of any kind? over the top if that's correct but I would agree with a total ban on football bets.

Certainly was the case last year- and cant have seen that changing.

Agreed that its over the top. For example I know someone now married to an premier league player- and she loved her accumulators when we worked together (much better than i was, to be fair). Whats to stop her putting on bets for her husband?

[killiefaetheferry]

9 minutes ago, Stu101 said:

Certainly was the case last year- and cant have seen that changing.

Agreed that its over the top. For example I know someone now married to an premier league player- and she loved her accumulators when we worked together (much better than i was, to be fair). Whats to stop her putting on bets for her husband?

Absolutely nothing if the eejit had half a brain. It would, however, rule out the use of a 'Hartson zero'. 

[dandydunn]

2 hours ago, Stu101 said:

Certainly was the case last year- and cant have seen that changing.

Agreed that its over the top. For example I know someone now married to an premier league player- and she loved her accumulators when we worked together (much better than i was, to be fair). Whats to stop her putting on bets for her husband?

Don't think it is that severe. 

I seen a couple of younger Aberdeen players tweeting about their horses in the grand national,but I suppose that could also be construed as naiviety?

[Kirk]

8 hours ago, Reevesy said:

A winning coupon

??

8 hours ago, sbcmfc said:

I don't have a lot of time for Barton, but, they do seem to be making an example of him.

This is undoubtedly the tip of the iceberg.

From the snippets from his statement he does appear to have bet against his team(s?), but not when he was playing.

Yea said the same, because of who he is they are putting a marker down

7 hours ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

Some previous bans/fines in here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/26653978

Apart from the Accrington MD no one has faced anything like an 18 month ban.

Ignoring its Barton, I think the rules are very over the top. It should be limited to not being able to bet in matches you are playing in, end of. Joey Barton when he was at Rangers, or any other SPL player, placing a 5 team accy on games such as Celtic v Aberdeen is not going to have any influence on how that game turns out. Even more so if he is punting on something like Real v Barca on his coupon.

 

 

Yep I'd say any competition your club is involved in should be the rule. If they want to bet on football they should be allowed. I know of some U20 players that are making killings betting on U20 games this year as they know the teams etc and the bookies are clueless

[Dalgety Bay TA]

4 hours ago, Parklife said:

Cool. I'm sure we all have to deal with rules that we don't agree with in our workplace. Mr Barton and some random player from Fleetwood both have the freedom to find alternative employment if they want to bet on Palace vs Spurs. 

As i said in the part of my post you cut out, administering the rules you seem to want would be a nightmare and very time-consuming and costly. For that reason, i totally agree with the current rules. It's a very small sacrifice to be able to play professional football and one that every player is well aware of. 

Apologies for the cut out, didn't mean to ignore it.

However I think you are overplaying the requirements for my suggestions. I can have my Betfair account bets for the month in a spreadsheet in 30 seconds, I could then email it to someone in 30 seconds and it would then take them 15 seconds to word search "EFL Championship" or "Burnley" or whatever the criteria would be.

The FA could make it a criteria for any bookmaker that if they want advertise or have a presence in any league ground in England that they have to monitor and also report any players bets on their own team/own competitions they play on. Bookies have more than enough monitoring tools that they could do that quickly and efficiently. Small price to pay for the bookies to get the continuing exposure they do.

Thats just two quick examples, I am sure those involved in the actual process would have plenty more solutions.

 

I don't think Barton is innocent here, he has bet for and against his own team which is something he should be punished for. What I don't think he, or anyone else should be punished for is betting on a game on the other side of the world which they have zero influence on, therefore not impacting the integrity of the sport. 

Footballers not being able to bet on football is like me not being able to invest in any shares whatsoever just because that's my day job. I can, if I stick to the rules, they should be able to do so too, but the rules should be relaxed to only stop them betting on games they are involved in.

[fringo]

32 minutes ago, Kirk said:

??

Yea said the same, because of who he is they are putting a marker down

Yep I'd say any competition your club is involved in should be the rule. If they want to bet on football they should be allowed. I know of some U20 players that are making killings betting on U20 games this year as they know the teams etc and the bookies are clueless

Just replying to this post although several people make similar points about inside info.

Surely this about players making bets on games they could influence, so why does it matter if anyone has inside info on any other game not to do with their club ? As someone else said, bookies have lots more info as do many non-footballers.

It's not to protect bookies but about making sure no-one throws a game or influences a game to "protect footballing integrity" (which is fair enough)? Therefore not taking part in a game shouldn't exclude you from making a bet on any other football match IMO.

[sbcmfc]

The whole thing with betting companies sponsoring teams etc isn't really relevant.

Nobody is saying betting on football is bad, just that footballers aren't allowed to do it.

In almost all the cases I can think of that have come out over the last few years, Ian black, the boy at Ayr, now Barton... there's been bets that have been on games involving their team.

So either the authorities are willing to turn a blind eye to minor offences (i.e. Betting on other countries etc.) or it goes to prove that zero tolerance is needed as footballers appear to thick to know where the line is.

Zero tolerance means no grey area, as it keeps coming back too, is it that big of a sacrifice?

I'd happily give up my coupons tomorrow if a professional football team offered me a contract.

[Kirk]

8 minutes ago, fringo said:

Just replying to this post although several people make similar points about inside info.

Surely this about players making bets on games they could influence, so why does it matter if anyone has inside info on any other game not to do with their club ? As someone else said, bookies have lots more info as do many non-footballers.

It's not to protect bookies but about making sure no-one throws a game or influences a game to "protect footballing integrity" (which is fair enough)? Therefore not taking part in a game shouldn't exclude you from making a bet on any other football match IMO.

That bit about the I20s should have been a separate paragraph. Wasn't really making it part of my opinion was just saying it was something i knew was going on.

[fringo]

3 minutes ago, Kirk said:

That bit about the I20s should have been a separate paragraph. Wasn't really making it part of my opinion was just saying it was something i knew was going on.

I didn't actually read the article/report but I did read some posts here , so my reply may not have been correct/complete and it wasn't aimed at you.

My point (without reading the article) is that why shouldn't footballers be able to bet on "other" football matches not involving their clubs ?

In terms of Barton (for other posts here) - if the rules say you can't do it then I agree 100%, he's broken the rules and should be punished.

I just think the rule should be tweaked/improved.

[Kirk]

18 hours ago, fringo said:

I didn't actually read the article/report but I did read some posts here , so my reply may not have been correct/complete and it wasn't aimed at you.

My point (without reading the article) is that why shouldn't footballers be able to bet on "other" football matches not involving their clubs ?

In terms of Barton (for other posts here) - if the rules say you can't do it then I agree 100%, he's broken the rules and should be punished.

I just think the rule should be tweaked/improved.

Yea i agree , would make it they can't get on anything in any competition they are involved in but hat still leaves them plenty

[bisland boy]

A different sport but jockeys are banned from betting on all horseracing and you don't hear many stories of junior flat jockeys betting on the gold cup or grand national even though they wouldn't have any chance of riding in it or affecting it. If the rule for professional footballers is no betting on any game and they all get reminded of that by the players union at the start of the season surely they all know that they can't do it, if they are that desperate to get their coupon on can get a family member or friend to stick it on at the bookies or through that other persons account

[RenfrewBlue]

On 28/04/2017 at 0:00 AM, bisland boy said:

A different sport but jockeys are banned from betting on all horseracing and you don't hear many stories of junior flat jockeys betting on the gold cup or grand national even though they wouldn't have any chance of riding in it or affecting it. If the rule for professional footballers is no betting on any game and they all get reminded of that by the players union at the start of the season surely they all know that they can't do it, if they are that desperate to get their coupon on can get a family member or friend to stick it on at the bookies or through that other persons account

Exactly. The rules are there at the start of the season and every player is aware of them. There is no excuse. 

Barton is an absolute fud but this punishment seems extreme. Almost as if the FA were waiting on him doing something so they could properly hammer him, due to previous misdemeanours perhaps. 

[Scotunited]