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11 hours ago, Mox said:

 Maradonna was the best player in the world for 5 odd years, Messi has been the best player in the world for 10 years plus.

Yeah but Maradona was a better player and made his team better by more of a margin. Messi has the rules to protect him, Maradona and especially Pele were getting knee high tackles from behind and shit like that.

Also i bet you whatever Messi does he isn't beating the drama of Maradona's last game for Barca ;)

He then went to Napoli and got them their first two leagues etc, It was crazy in Italy when he won them their first Serie A.

 

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1 hour ago, phart said:

Yeah but Maradona was a better player and made his team better by more of a margin. Messi has the rules to protect him, Maradona and especially Pele were getting knee high tackles from behind and shit like that.

Also i bet you whatever Messi does he isn't beating the drama of Maradona's last game for Barca ;)

He then went to Napoli and got them their first two leagues etc, It was crazy in Italy when he won them their first Serie A.

 

That's what people forget about Maradona, his feat of making Napoli the champions in Italy. They hadn't ever won the league before then. 

His record is obviously tainted by his cheating and that's the main reason I put Pele above him but Messi just doesn't compare at that level. 

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Can't believe noone has mentioned Ronaldinho, maybe not the best ever but definitely up there. At his best he was unbelievable. His touch was just sublime and some of the shit he pulled off was unreal. A shame he got into partying in his latter years as another few seasons like he was at his best would put him right up there! Best player I've seen in person without a doubt

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4 hours ago, RenfrewBlue said:

That's what people forget about Maradona, his feat of making Napoli the champions in Italy. They hadn't ever won the league before then. 

His record is obviously tainted by his cheating and that's the main reason I put Pele above him but Messi just doesn't compare at that level. 

They'd basically won feck all, he came, leagues, doubles, european trophies, then failed test for cocaine banned 15 months, same team wins nothing for 2 decades.

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10 hours ago, RenfrewBlue said:

That's what people forget about Maradona, his feat of making Napoli the champions in Italy. They hadn't ever won the league before then. 

His record is obviously tainted by his cheating and that's the main reason I put Pele above him but Messi just doesn't compare at that level. 

Maradonna doesn't compare to Messi when it comes to performing at the top level. Maradonna won three league titles throughout his whole career and a uefa cup. Messi has won 8 league titles and 4 European Cups, he is literally miles ahead of Maradonna in every department.

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35 minutes ago, Mox said:

Maradonna doesn't compare to Messi when it comes to performing at the top level. Maradonna won three league titles throughout his whole career and a uefa cup. Messi has won 8 league titles and 4 European Cups, he is literally miles ahead of Maradonna in every department.

Read the previous post. Maradona took a team that won nothing and got those honours. Messi is playing for a club that regularly wins things. His is a much easier gig. 

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15 minutes ago, RenfrewBlue said:

Read the previous post. Maradona took a team that won nothing and got those honours. Messi is playing for a club that regularly wins things. His is a much easier gig. 

That is a dreadful argument and also one which doesn't stand up. Messi has won 8 league titles in 13 seasons, prior to that Barca's previous 8 titles were won over a 27 year period. Before Messi, they had won 1 European Cup, since Messi, they have won 4. Yes they were successful prior to Messi, but he has taken them to a whole new level.

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20 minutes ago, McTeeko said:

The amount of people spelling Maradona wrong is pretty incredible considering the topic. 

It's like the bawbags who spell it 'Dalgleish' ?

Relax - away and pour yourself a whiskey.

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8 minutes ago, Ormond said:

He'll be too busy posting pics of his Mrs in a bikini. :P

Too cauld the day. You want to see her in a pair of trackies? Seeing as you have absolute delight bringing that up constantly! ?

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7 minutes ago, McTeeko said:

Too cauld the day. You want to see her in a pair of trackies? Seeing as you have absolute delight bringing that up constantly! ?

I've got a wee bit space on my fridge left for one more pic. :P

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2 hours ago, Mox said:

That is a dreadful argument and also one which doesn't stand up. Messi has won 8 league titles in 13 seasons, prior to that Barca's previous 8 titles were won over a 27 year period. Before Messi, they had won 1 European Cup, since Messi, they have won 4. Yes they were successful prior to Messi, but he has taken them to a whole new level.

It's not dreadful at all, your argument is the one that has all these false axioms.

Your argument hinges on all titles being equally difficult therefore you have to use quantitative measuring. I.E. how many.

When in actual fact the reality is there is  qualitative differentiation each title will be easier or harder depending on the title win. 

let's look even deeper then.

Champions league Barcelona record with messi and without messi

won 60, drawn 23 and lost 15 = 61.2%

won 22 drawn 8 lost 4 = 64.7%

oh look without Messi Barca have a higher win percentage.

 

Your argument is the dreadful one with all the basic assumptions, it;s like secondary education physics, where you do calculations about blocks sliding down a surface, but you don't add in wind resistance or friction or inertia as you're just starting out so you need to make it easy to begin with.

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