ErsatzThistle Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 All hail King Gary Teale ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted May 27, 2017 Author Share Posted May 27, 2017 26 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said: All hail King Gary Teale ! Slightly below Roddy Grant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 8 hours ago, DonnyTJS said: Why should that be the case? The 'title' is for an individual in the context of a team, not the team itself. Best could have been n x better than he was, as close to footballing perfection as it's possible to be, and he'd never have won a world cup. No, it's not like saying that - because they're not team sports in the footballing sense. The F1 examples were all in pursuit of individual world titles and, in the context of the championship, could be seen as aiding that pursuit. Zidane's headbutt had the opposite effect. Since neither Korchnoi nor Karpov are generally considered 'the greatest' it's a rather moot point, anyway. And I don't buy the 'peak' argument either. What's the approved duration? If it's 10 seconds, let's give the title to McFadden. It should be over a career in football, which is why the correct answer is Cruyff - the only contender with an outstanding managerial record. Â So in your personal criteria the "Greatest" must have a good managerial record? Other folk have set a criteria that the "greatest" needs to have won the World Cup. Hmmmmm... I wonder which one sounds daftest? Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goozay Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 To be considered The Greatest you need to have won and performed at the highest level - which means club and country - weekly league and tournament football. It's widely accepted that France's 98 and Argentina's 86 World Cup winning teams were built around one player and that they wouldn't have won the tournament without Zidane and Maradonna respectively. The fact that Messi has yet to take his club form with Barcelona into a World Cup with Argentina will always put him in Maradonna's shadow. So I'd go with 1. Pele 2. Maradonna 3. Zidane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 It really gives you a great indication of the amount of old duffers on this board. Pele and Maradonna being better than Messi is f u cking laughable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Messi had an overall excellent World Cup in 2014. 90 minutes shouldn't define a career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 If you put Messi back into Maradona's time how would he do getting kicked to pieces and with the tackling Maradonna faced? How would Maradonna do if you put into Messi's time were defenders hardly touch you in comparison? Even Ronaldo (who I dislike) is probably ahead of Messi due to the Euro success on his honours list. Take away the honours and just line them up and say which is the best footballer, Messi for me, but not the greatest footballer (yet).  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goozay Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 50 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: Messi had an overall excellent World Cup in 2014. 90 minutes shouldn't define a career. If he underperforms in a World Cup Final he can't be considered The Greatest. Yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnyTJS Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 2 hours ago, Orraloon said: So in your personal criteria the "Greatest" must have a good managerial record? Other folk have set a criteria that the "greatest" needs to have won the World Cup. Hmmmmm... I wonder which one sounds daftest? Â I know, I keep trying to tell them but no one seems to listen to me ... Actually, my key personal criterion is that 'the greatest' must be Johan Cruyff. Not a hard one to fulfil, provided you're Johan Cruyff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 56 minutes ago, thplinth said: If you put Messi back into Maradona's time how would he do getting kicked to pieces and with the tackling Maradonna faced? How would Maradonna do if you put into Messi's time were defenders hardly touch you in comparison? Even Ronaldo (who I dislike) is probably ahead of Messi due to the Euro success on his honours list. Take away the honours and just line them up and say which is the best footballer, Messi for me, but not the greatest footballer (yet).  Messi has been kicked since the minute he became a pro. This argument hat Messi has somehow never ever been on the end of rough treatment is a complete fallacy, he's been kicked in every stadium he has played in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 17 minutes ago, Goozay said: If he underperforms in a World Cup Final he can't be considered The Greatest. Yet... He underperformed given his high standards but all it takes is for Higuin to put away a Messi assist and everything changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Using international football as the bar for how good a player is, is so old fashioned. International football is predominantly guff these days, it's all about club football which is punishing in terms of it's relentlessness and Messi has redefined club football and the role of a striker. Maradonna was the best player in the world for 5 odd years, Messi has been the best player in the world for 10 years plus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 38 minutes ago, DonnyTJS said: I know, I keep trying to tell them but no one seems to listen to me ... Actually, my key personal criterion is that 'the greatest' must be Johan Cruyff. Not a hard one to fulfil, provided you're Johan Cruyff. But he hasn't won the World Cup.  He couldn't even be bothered going to the one in 78. Nae commitment.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Mox said: It really gives you a great indication of the amount of old duffers on this board. Pele and Maradonna being better than Messi is f u cking laughable. If it wasn't for old duffers on this board you would be speaking to yourself. Are you too young to remember Pele? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitre Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 4 hours ago, Mox said: It really gives you a great indication of the amount of old duffers on this board. Pele and Maradonna being better than Messi is f u cking laughable. Almost as laughable as putting Riquelme in your Top 3 of all time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannannan Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, Mitre said: Almost as laughable as putting Riquelme in your Top 3 of all time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 2 hours ago, Orraloon said: If it wasn't for old duffers on this board you would be speaking to yourself. Are you too young to remember Pele? He was the old guy that sold Viagra aye? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, Mitre said: Almost as laughable as putting Riquelme in your Top 3 of all time Easily in that top 3, never seen a man play football so beautifully as him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted May 28, 2017 Author Share Posted May 28, 2017 5 hours ago, Goozay said: To be considered The Greatest you need to have won and performed at the highest level - which means club and country - weekly league and tournament football. It's widely accepted that France's 98 and Argentina's 86 World Cup winning teams were built around one player and that they wouldn't have won the tournament without Zidane and Maradonna respectively. The fact that Messi has yet to take his club form with Barcelona into a World Cup with Argentina will always put him in Maradonna's shadow. So I'd go with 1. Pele 2. Maradonna 3. Zidane You could also argue that the Champions League is a far bigger tournament than a World Cup now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 52 minutes ago, Mox said: He was the old guy that sold Viagra aye? Amongst other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 50 minutes ago, Mox said: Easily in that top 3, never seen a man play football so beautifully as him. I used to love watching that style of play. And Riquelme was probably the best ever in that role. That 2006 Argentina team were fantastic and he was the maestro in that team. I might be persuaded to put him above Messi but neither are in the same category as Pele and Maradona, IMO. If I had to pick a number 3, I would probably go with Ronaldo.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitre Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Top 3 for me would be: 1. Maradona 2. Messi 3. Zidane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 1. John Marr 2. Gerry Creany 3. Scott Nisbet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted May 28, 2017 Author Share Posted May 28, 2017 17 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said: 1. John Marr 2. Gerry Creany 3. Scott Nisbet Scott "I once scored that great Euro goal" Nisbet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 1 minute ago, Ormond said: Scott "I once scored that great Euro goal" Nisbet. Did he really?? I didn't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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