Gordon Strachan

[romanticscot]

Can we start some polls please? In the absence of a poll, please answer the three questions below.

1 - If we make the play offs - Do we keep Strachan?

2 - If we finish 2nd but don't make the play offs?

3 - If we finish 3rd of below, do we keep him?

Currently according to Daily Record, his win percentage is 45.71(33 games).  Craig Brown achieved 45.07 over 71 games.   I don't think he will ever beat Billy Stark though.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/how-gordon-strachans-record-scotland-10603500

http://www.scotlandfootballstats.co.uk/managers

That second link is not up to date.

Edited June 12, 2017 by romanticscot

[Guest BlueGaz]

32 minutes ago, romanticscot said:

Can we start some polls please? In the absence of a poll, please answer the three questions below.

1 - If we make the play offs - Do we keep Strachan?

2 - If we finish 2nd but don't make the play offs?

3 - If we finish 3rd of below, do we keep him?

Currently according to Daily Record, his win percentage is 45.71(33 games).  Craig Brown achieved 45.07 over 71 games.   I don't think he will ever beat Billy Stark though.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/how-gordon-strachans-record-scotland-10603500

http://www.scotlandfootballstats.co.uk/managers

That second link is not up to date.

1 - No, time for a change.  He has made too many selection/tactical mistakes during his tenure.  
2 - ""
3 - ""

I am not too sure who I would choose to replace him at the moment, but would be keen to look abroad and bring something new into the mix.

Edited June 12, 2017 by BlueGaz

[GordyA88]

33 minutes ago, romanticscot said:

Can we start some polls please? In the absence of a poll, please answer the three questions below.

1 - If we make the play offs - Do we keep Strachan?

2 - If we finish 2nd but don't make the play offs?

3 - If we finish 3rd of below, do we keep him?

Currently according to Daily Record, his win percentage is 45.71(33 games).  Craig Brown achieved 45.07 over 71 games.   I don't think he will ever beat Billy Stark though.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/how-gordon-strachans-record-scotland-10603500

http://www.scotlandfootballstats.co.uk/managers

That second link is not up to date.

1 - Yes we should keep him as that would be success and improvement.

2 - I would still say Yes. I wanted him gone earlier in the campaign because I was convinced the players had chucked it for him but it seems to have turned a corner with the players at least working their backsides off.

3 - Difficult. He wouldn't really have taken us forward and I think he might go on his own. 

 

All in all he has made some baffling team selections/squad selections and I think he needs to rectify this and pick players playing. When I wanted him out I thought we should have went for lagerback as manager but he's unavailable. It's a difficult job but we get rid of him who do we get in? I mean people who would genuinely take the job. 

[wanderer]

I think Strachan has taken us as far can, and he will quietly slip away after the final match (be it Slovenia or a play-off), which I think is the best way for everyone (though I am slightly warming to the idea of giving him the Nations League in 2018... but I still think time is right at the end of this campaign).

As for who to replace him, as he is available at the moment Moyes will probably be top of the SFA "wish list" (and lets face it, that will not be a pretty list to view..... Moyes, Lambert and Coyle, with probably Derek McInnes and Michael O'Neill name chucked in to look nice in the papers, but no realistic chance of getting them) but honestly would prefer it if the SFA looked abroad rather than go for the biggest available Scottish "name" that is free/cheap, even if it means having to wait a number of months.

[ceudmilefailte]

58 minutes ago, romanticscot said:

Can we start some polls please? In the absence of a poll, please answer the three questions below.

1 - If we make the play offs - Do we keep Strachan?

2 - If we finish 2nd but don't make the play offs?

3 - If we finish 3rd of below, do we keep him?

Currently according to Daily Record, his win percentage is 45.71(33 games).  Craig Brown achieved 45.07 over 71 games.   I don't think he will ever beat Billy Stark though.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/how-gordon-strachans-record-scotland-10603500

http://www.scotlandfootballstats.co.uk/managers

That second link is not up to date.

Far smaller sample than Brown and the two games against Gibraltar really shouldn't count. There has never been a country that weak in international football.

To answer

1- we have to

2 and 3 time to go

[kumnio]

No to all. He should have been out of the job a long time ago. 

Last campaign should have ended with him being told thanks, but no thanks. Slovakia away and Lithuania at home were pathetic. 

1 point against England won't change my mind on him. 

[Auld_Reekie]

Before Saturday I just wanted him gone, but Ill be honest, the result has given a very short-term reprieve. He's on borrowed time though. It's clear we're not going to punt him after almost beating England but it doesn't make up for insipid performances to date. There's a clear bar that needs to be met from here on in and only a remarkable turnaround and making the playoffs should save him. I actually think we're closing in on a much better starting 11 but it's up to Strachan to maintain it and start turning in results and performances.

Biggest concern just now is the players appear to be behind him. At this stage, I think punting him would do more harm than good.

[andyD]

1 = Stay
2 = Stay
3 = Depends. If we're 3rd on goal difference having won 3 of the 4 next games and played well in the other, then I can see a good case for keeping him.

I did think Strachan would probably be gone at the end of this campaign, but the last two game have been really interesting (among other things!).

There seemed a shift against Slovenia. He started to think a bit differently. Tierney at right back. Armstrong in there. Griffiths up top. Hanley dropped because of form. Things that you might not have expected to happen. And there was a shift in the attitude of the players too, we played like we wanted it.. and we got it.

Against England, again it was different. 343 (tho positionally they pushed us back into a 541 a lot of the time) but it was tight and organised and everyone was alive and pro-active. The team selection was good, The subs made sense (including a debut for Fraser). And he reacted to the goal by changing the team shape and England struggled to cope with it, resulting in the free kicks and goals.

So, for me, Strachan's done really well the last two games. It's a bit ask to qualify from here, but if we continue in this vein we've got a real chance. If we fall just short, but continue like the last two game then I'd give him another 2 years. If we are 442, uninspired and lose in Lithuania then.. ok.. the last two games were just freaks, and he'll have to go at the end of the campaign.

[adamntg]

I'd keep him regardless, seriously.  He gets the best out of not the greatest squad, don't think anyone else would.

[northernscum]

[1] Yes

[2] hmmmmmmm........ Yes

[3] No

He has earned a wee bit more time (ie, the rest of the campaign) for me, with the obvious attitude of the players to fight hard for him. If they can give him 100% commitment, I think it's the least we can do to match it.

I think he now realises that some of his earlier tactical set-ups were far to insipid, it is now shit or bust. So if he and the players can go out with that mindset we may just have a sniffof a chance.

***Having said all that, if we lose to Lithuania he can GTF!**   

[Robbo `81]

I would like him to leave regardless of how campaign ends - As previously stated , for me, he still thinks too much like a Club Manager -- He needs to - but won't - get it through his head that his priority is the Scotland team, and if that means risking upsetting Clubs / Club Managers by having to criticise players and / or players getting injured whilst with Scotland then so be it...

For me personally it is this that is Strachan's biggest flaw as an International Manager...

 

Edited June 12, 2017 by Robbo `81

[Parklife]

He needs to stay for the campaign. He shouldn't still be the manager but, after a shocking two years where we went backwards, the last 2 performances and results have been steps in the right direction. If he continues that improvement and gets us to the play offs then i think he should probably stay. 

However, we need to remember a few things: 

- We're in a poor position in the group due to abject performances and results vs Lithuania and Slovakia - these results will likely prove to be critical. 
- We've played relatively well just twice in 2 years
- We and Strachan have achieved nothing

[andyD]

11 minutes ago, Parklife said:

However, we need to remember a few things: 

- We've played relatively well just twice in 2 years
- We and Strachan have achieved nothing

Not sure i agree with the first one. 2nd half of 2015 was ok: the 1-1 in Ireland we played well. 2-3 to Germany we played well. 2-2 with Poland we played well. 2016 was a write off, 2017 seems to be good so far. And 'relatively well' seems a bit harsh when we were a minute and a half from securing a win over England.

True, Strachan's achieved nothing.. But neither did Billy Stark, Craig Levein, George Burley, Alex McLeish, Walter Smith, Tommy Burns or Berti Vogts.

Next year could well be 20 years of getting nothing.. so if Strachan at least has a system and us playing well, if we keep bringing thru some of the exciting younger players that he's been giving debuts to, and if we finish this campaign with a flourish and at least run it close, then we can have some hope going into the next one. For a while there he seemed stuck in a way of doing things and a specific starting 11, and that wasn't working at all. Suddenly he seems to have moved forward and that is certainly giving me hope. And at this point, 19 years without, hope going into a campaign is the most I can dream of.

[Parklife]

17 minutes ago, andyD said:

if we keep bringing thru some of the exciting younger players that he's been giving debuts to, 

Players like Armstrong and Fraser, who every one with a clue would've had in the team 18 months ago? 

[romanticscot]

I'll answer my own questions now.

1- If we make the play-offs I am for keeping Strachan.

2 - if we finish second I am for keeping Strachan.

3 - if we finish 3rd of below I am reviewing the results over the next 4 games.

My reasoning is I believe he is adapting to international football,it has taken him a few years but I am for certain he has developed an understanding, combined that with the harmony there seems to be in the camp and the ways the players seem to be responding.  if we finish 3rd, I'd like to look at the ending results and talk to him to see if he has the appetite for it still.  I think someone less stubborn would have walked last summer but we are reaping from that in that Strachan seems to have belief and the desire to make it. In scenario 1 and 2 and changing, I believe will lose valuable experience when the candidate who comes in is either unfamiliar with our pool of players or someone looking to rebuild their reputation and be off again. 

Edited June 12, 2017 by romanticscot

[macy37]

1 hour ago, Parklife said:

Players like Armstrong and Fraser, who every one with a clue would've had in the team 18 months ago? 

Really? 18 months ago you'd have had Armstrong in as a first pick? Answer that honestly mind.

[Parklife]

14 minutes ago, macy37 said:

Really? 18 months ago you'd have had Armstrong in as a first pick? Answer that honestly mind.

He'd have played for Scotland several times 18 months ago, if I'd have been manager. 

[RobRoy69]

Yes Yes & Yes...Strachan is as good a manager as we have ever had, technically & tactically...having watched the national side for near on 60 years...the current crop of players is probably the poorest squad ever, Fact. I don't know the answer, traditionally we have always had at least two or three world class players. How many of todays (Brown maybe) players would have got in our 50's - 60's or 70's squads? Our football has been in decline for years. Often the younger squads look promising then....nothing. I console myself with the memories of Dalglish, Jordan, Gemmell, McNeil, Souness, Gilzean, White, Law, Mcstay, Miller, Bremner etc...and oh yes Strachan

[Jacques Hunt]

1. Yes

2. keep

3. Yes but he will walk.

I think  WGS will be gone after this campaign unless we qualify. That concerns me as I do not know who we would get. Moyes and McLeish, no and no. Michael O'Neil very interesting but likelihood of getting him seems to be based on fact he lives in embra. 

 

 

[Bino's]

he won't want to stay himself, his reign keeps extending by one game as we sqeak out a result

[Bino's]

31 minutes ago, Parklife said:

He'd have played for Scotland several times 18 months ago, if I'd have been manager. 

it's not about how far back it's about playing players when they're in form

 

around the time we were slipping up against Lithuania /Slovakia, Armstrong was starting champions league games, not in squad

 

just now, McGregor in amazing form, not in squad

 

 

[Bobby Russell's Lovechild]

51 minutes ago, RobRoy69 said:

...the current crop of players is probably the poorest squad ever, Fact.

I think Berti Vogts might argue with that. Craig Gordon or Rab Douglas, Andy Robertson or Robbie Stockdale. Leigh Griffiths or Scott Dobie. The nightmare that was Kevin Kyle or the midfield dynamo that was Nigel Quashie

[Parklife]

1 hour ago, RobRoy69 said:

Yes Yes & Yes...Strachan is as good a manager as we have ever had, technically & tactically...having watched the national side for near on 60 years...the current crop of players is probably the poorest squad ever, Fact. I don't know the answer, traditionally we have always had at least two or three world class players. How many of todays (Brown maybe) players would have got in our 50's - 60's or 70's squads? Our football has been in decline for years. Often the younger squads look promising then....nothing. I console myself with the memories of Dalglish, Jordan, Gemmell, McNeil, Souness, Gilzean, White, Law, Mcstay, Miller, Bremner etc...and oh yes Strachan

You must be right because you put "fact" in there. 

[Dalgety Bay TA]

It's time for him to go unless we make the World Cup, which we won't. 

I don't buy into the improvements view. Slovenia were far poorer than I expected and it took an 89 min sclaff to get a result at home. England were as I thought they would be in a game in mid June, pedestrian and moved the ball slowly yet we never got a blow in on them til about 88 mins. And even then they were two worldys from Griffiths that dug us out of what was tamely heading towards another home defeat v them. 

We will beat Malta, I don't think we will beat Slovakia especially with them in the driving seat for 2nd place and being decent technically and I don't think we will take more than 2pts from our 2 aways. 

Germany/Poland/Ireland was a harder group than this one and we got closer to a 2nd place/qualifying place than I think we will in this group. That's going backwards IMO.

[Doric]

Sign him up on an extended contract now. There is no one else and he is getting the best out of the players again like he did when he first came.  Long term manager may well pay off instead of the disruption of changeing managers.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Doric