Tail Docking

[phart]

There's been basically an underground war between, Scottish government through PAWS(partnership for action against wildlife crime) and the Scottish Gamekeepers association. (SGA), about the killing of endangered birds of prey.

With the courts ignoring police advice and favouring the landowners who act through their gamekeepers.

So weird that the SNP are giving into the lobbying pressure of the SGA, when the SGA has refused to sit on meetings with PAWS.

I need to speak to my Lothian MSP Andy Wightman, this has piqued my interest.

"RSPB Scotland stressed that it had tried for years to work collaboratively with SGA to prevent crimes against birds of prey. “Regrettably, their approach has repeatedly been to deny that these crimes are taking place, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary,” said the group’s head of investigations, Ian Thomson.

“The SGA should consider very carefully what message their withdrawal sends out to the Scottish public about their real commitment to working with partners to stamp out the wildlife crime.”

 

below is the police scotland report from 2015.

http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0051/00511181.pdf

Why is the SNP enacting policy only the SGA favour.

Edited June 23, 2017 by phart

[phart]

Also reading the report the enviroment committee state in the press.

" They seek to allow tail docking, in Scotland in the certain circumstances, of spaniel and hunt point retrieve breed puppies, that are 5 days old or less, if they are likely to become working dogs. "

Yet if you read the advice given in the actual report, i.e.not shit spread to the papers you find their advice was.

Scottish Government Veterinary Adviser Andrew Voas told the committee he estimated around 80 puppies would have their tails docked a year to avoid having to carry out one amputation on an older dog due to injury.

Since when is 1 in 80 described as likely?

The fat that ministers are basically talking shit makes me want to look into this even more now.

[phart]

Further reading the driving force for docking seems to be the huge gap in cost of just docking every puppy as opposed to treating tail injuries in adult dogs.

Loads of landowners moaning at the cost of treating their animals when they could just chop off every puppies tail then it won't matter.

[phart]

Anyone any information on who owns Edradynate Estate?

[phart]

11 minutes ago, phart said:

Anyone any information on who owns Edradynate Estate?

High Sheriff of Hampshire (by apppointment of the queen) Michael David Colin Craven Campbell.

 

Right that's enough reading for the day. Yesterday a David Campbell from the same estate was charged for poisoning crops.

 

That was one weird diversion i just took.

[thplinth]

Yet people cut the end of a baby's cock off for religious reasons and that is cool but oh my god the puppies!

[phart]

5 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Yet people cut the end of a baby's cock off for religious reasons and that is cool but oh my god the puppies!

I had that argument with Calmac a decade ago. You must remember it.

Also thplinth you should see the madness behind all these estate owners, poisoned 7 golden eagles since 2014. Just trap and kill endangered animals as they may reduce their pheasants on their hunts.

[thplinth]

1 minute ago, phart said:

I had that argument with Calmac a decade ago. You must remember it.

Also thplinth you should see the madness behind all these estate owners, poisoned 7 golden eagles since 2014. Just trap and kill endangered animals as they may reduce their pheasants on their hunts.

I remember it well. You started to show how it was actually religion based and pseudo science to post rationalize it. I think we all know it but it is something that if you say it out loud you attract immediate flak.

I despise all this tail docking shit and WTF are the SNP doing here!. Biiiiizarre. 

Not just that - the breeding of dogs with chronic health issues - like not being able to breath properly - just because they visually please us - FFS that is some fhucked up shit.

[phart]

7 minutes ago, thplinth said:

. 

Not just that - the breeding of dogs with chronic health issues - like not being able to breath properly - just because they visually please us - FFS that is some fhucked up shit.

EDIT: the circumcision process did come to mind along with female mutilation as well.

yeah and some of the pedigrees at crufts are very unhealthy.

Dogs are wonderful creatures worked side by side with us during evolution and humans (who are one fo the worst species) feck them over time and again.

Edited June 23, 2017 by phart

[thplinth]

How about we all agree that puppies and babies and razor sharp knives are not in the same room together unless we have a medical emergency.

No need to be cutting puppies or babies for cosmetic or religious reasons...right folks?

[thplinth]

By the way the working dogs argument is utter bullshit. Have they not heard of insurance? Cutting the tails off all dogs is just a way for them to avoid their bills. They are working dogs, insurance is part of your working expenses. Don't whine about vet bills for your 'working dogs' while you charge top dollar for arseholes to blow the shit out of Scottish wildlife.

[Ormond]

I'm for the banning altogether on bloodsports. It's draconian as feck. So, against the mutilation of any animal for sport.

[thplinth]

As an unapologetic carnivore let me just say all of you. But people being cruel to animals boils my pish. Up there with abusing children. Both innocents. 

 

[Ormond]

57 minutes ago, thplinth said:

As an unapologetic carnivore let me just say all of you. But people being cruel to animals boils my pish. Up there with abusing children. Both innocents. 

 

I went veggie months ago. Please though, I'm not preaching above. Big difference from stunning an animal for meat than docking one for a gun sport. 

[G-Man]

Ive been emailing my MSP, MP and Euro guy for years now over SNP's appalling record on animal welfare/rights. The press are rarely interested and one of my biggest hopes for independence is so I never have to vote SNP again. I've no idea who they're sooking up to but they're up to something with the tail docking, ignoring the bird poisonings,  electro shocking of razor clams, lax fox hunting laws, so on and so forth. And why aren't they making a stand with introducing cctv into Scottish slaughter houses? Look at the countries who've introduced it and it's a disgrace we're a country still fighting it. I laugh when people tell me we're a nation of animal lovers. Just look at crufts or the amount of people you meet who have sickly dogs but they're pedigree and fit in a bag so heh ho, dog tracks, grand national, tallow being replaced with 'kinder' palm oil in the new fivers, aye that'll please the Orangutan. 

Rant over, bad mood as I've adopted a lurcher and she takes up so much fecking room in the bed I can't sleep and she'll be waking me in 4 hours for her walk. Phart look up the razor clam stuff. 

Edited June 24, 2017 by G-Man

[phart]

6 hours ago, G-Man said:

 

Rant over, bad mood as I've adopted a lurcher and she takes up so much fecking room in the bed I can't sleep and she'll be waking me in 4 hours for her walk. Phart look up the razor clam stuff. 

I think I know what it is, beyond that i'm ignorant.Using a current to entice them out of the sand but it disturbs everything else. It's mental.

[Kirk]

Hunting is for willys

[phart]

Been looking into this more. I think Gamekeepers might be bigger khunts than bankers.

[thistle do nicely]

On 6/23/2017 at 2:07 PM, phart said:

Also reading the report the enviroment committee state in the press.

" They seek to allow tail docking, in Scotland in the certain circumstances, of spaniel and hunt point retrieve breed puppies, that are 5 days old or less, if they are likely to become working dogs. "

Yet if you read the advice given in the actual report, i.e.not shit spread to the papers you find their advice was.

Scottish Government Veterinary Adviser Andrew Voas told the committee he estimated around 80 puppies would have their tails docked a year to avoid having to carry out one amputation on an older dog due to injury.

Since when is 1 in 80 described as likely?

The fat that ministers are basically talking shit makes me want to look into this even more now.

I've an HPR and basically the breeders want it to be square, its not really a safety thing 

[brant grebner]

Why don't the breeders just breed a dug that disnae have a tail?

It's no like we don't know how to fvck up the physicality of dugs by getting a paw dug tae ride his wee sister or daughter over and over again until we've got tiny wee dugs the size of a tennis ball, or dugs that have a back pelvis that collapses by the time they get taken to get their baws chopped off, or an underbite muzzle that leaks saliva like the Baron of Cumnock leaks pish.

Aye, Josef Fritzl-style inbreeding for 15 years to get a £100 cheque from a Windsor and a shiny wee silver trophy at Crufts is fine, but tail-docking or ear-cropping or locking a over-sized terrier up in a dark wee room and starving it for 8 or 9 days and then goading it with a balloon and chucking it in a ring in a working man's contest for coin with another is a no no.

[Parklife]

9 hours ago, brant grebner said:

Why don't the breeders just breed a dug that disnae have a tail?

It's no like we don't know how to fvck up the physicality of dugs by getting a paw dug tae ride his wee sister or daughter over and over again until we've got tiny wee dugs the size of a tennis ball, or dugs that have a back pelvis that collapses by the time they get taken to get their baws chopped off, or an underbite muzzle that leaks saliva like the Baron of Cumnock leaks pish.

Aye, Josef Fritzl-style inbreeding for 15 years to get a £100 cheque from a Windsor and a shiny wee silver trophy at Crufts is fine, but tail-docking or ear-cropping or locking a over-sized terrier up in a dark wee room and starving it for 8 or 9 days and then goading it with a balloon and chucking it in a ring in a working man's contest for coin with another is a no no.

 

[Ormond]

19 hours ago, brant grebner said:

Why don't the breeders just breed a dug that disnae have a tail?

It's no like we don't know how to fvck up the physicality of dugs by getting a paw dug tae ride his wee sister or daughter over and over again until we've got tiny wee dugs the size of a tennis ball, or dugs that have a back pelvis that collapses by the time they get taken to get their baws chopped off, or an underbite muzzle that leaks saliva like the Baron of Cumnock leaks pish.

Aye, Josef Fritzl-style inbreeding for 15 years to get a £100 cheque from a Windsor and a shiny wee silver trophy at Crufts is fine, but tail-docking or ear-cropping or locking a over-sized terrier up in a dark wee room and starving it for 8 or 9 days and then goading it with a balloon and chucking it in a ring in a working man's contest for coin with another is a no no.

Can someone that kens Brant lock him up and force him to post more on the TAMB? 

[phart]

On 6/23/2017 at 11:11 AM, phart said:

It is nuts, it's bedlam up north.

Scottish ministers’ attempts to defeat wildlife crime are unravelling thanks to gamekeepers boycotting government meetings, and the abandonment of prosecutions over the apparent killing of birds of prey, according to wildlife campaigners.

The Sunday Herald can reveal that the Scottish Gamekeepers Association (SGA) has pulled out of meetings of the Partnership for Action Against Wildlife Crime in Scotland (PAWS) because it doesn’t trust wildlife campaigners.

We can also disclose that the Crown Office has decided not to begin proceedings on a case involving three allegedly poisoned buzzards on a Perthshire estate. This is the fourth case of alleged raptor persecution to be dropped in the last month. Between 2010-2015, 73 birds of prey were killed by poison alone in Scotland. In other cases, peregrines, hen harriers, buzzards, red kites and tawny owls have been shot since April 2014...

...The row comes against a background of rising concern about repeated failures to prosecute bird of prey cases. The Crown Office has recently dropped three cases. Now the Crown Office has rejected a police plea for prosecution after three allegedly poisoned buzzards were found at Edradynate estate near Aberfeldy in Perthshire.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15299366.Rural_Scotland_at_war_over_illegal_killings_of_birds_of_prey/#comments-anchor

CAMPAIGNERS have criticised plans to push forward with an “experimental” cull of hundreds of ravens.

Scottish Natural Heritage (SNH) have granted a group of farmers and gamekeepers a five-year licence to kill 300 birds in Perthshire.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16177825.Plans_to_cull_hundreds_of_ravens_in_Perthshire_slammed_by_campaigners/

 

Perthshire is like some parochial western frontier type village in the context of the estates.

There doesn't seem to be much more scientific inquiry as to say "what happens" to Wader populations if less Ravens. Although it's probably really so they can get more grouse on the land. Killing off a highly intelligent social animal so humans can better shoot Grouse.

[Ally Bongo]

Have tweeted Pete Wishart and copied in the boss 

[Ally Bongo]

Raven Cull suspended

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45003370