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This Weekends Matches 2017/18


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This is a case study in entitlement. specifically revenge entitlement (see definitions below) and passive entitlement.

Active entitlement was defined as the tendency to protect individual rights based on self-worthiness.

Revenge entitlement was defined as the tendency to protect one’s individual rights when violated by others and the tendency to reciprocate insults

Passive entitlement was defined as the belief in obligations to and expectations toward other people and institutions for the fulfillment of the individual’s needs.

The entitlement to win is breached. So therefore the other institutions must be punished for not working towards filling their individual entitlement. Lennon is reported to police, calls for ref's to sanctioned, that mental press release about Lennon etc.

The people in charge have an entitled entity on their hands, much like a former child star. Pandering to it won't help anyone.

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14 minutes ago, Och Aye said:

 The quicker we drag football into the 21st centuary with instant video appeals the better.

Yeah, as VAR worked wonderfully in the confederations cup... 

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45 minutes ago, Parklife said:

Can you elaborate as to why you think he "had a shocker"? 

Off the top of my head..

Stokes should have gone for at least two yellows.

McGeouch getting a final warning, then giving away 2 fouls in the next 10 minutes (possibly 3 fouls - may have been McGregor who got the last one)

The free kick McGregor got when he brought down Morelos.

The yellow card for Tavernier.

I actually agree that he is one of the better refs in the league, He just had a bad game.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Parklife said:

Can you elaborate as to why you think he "had a shocker"? 

Stokes could have had two red cards. The neck grab was a red every day. He  lost control on a few ocassions. I seem to recall Beaton being slaughtered in the media for his handling of a Rangers v Accies game when it was perceived he missed three key decisions that favoured Rangers. His demotion is probably a cumulative matter.

Edited by EddardStark
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Just now, Stu101 said:

Off the top of my head..

Stokes should have gone for at least two yellows.

Stokes should've been sent off with Jack, agreed. 

Just now, Stu101 said:

McGeouch getting a final warning, then giving away 2 fouls in the next 10 minutes (possibly 3 fouls - may have been McGregor who got the last one)

The Rangers TV guys were bizarrely complaining about this. There's no way in hell McGeough should've been off. There was feck all in any of the fouls he made after being booked (one of them wasn't even a foul IIRC).

Got to give credit to Beaton for not allowing 50,000 blinkered Rangers fans howling for a red card influence him in to making the wrong decision. 

Just now, Stu101 said:

The free kick McGregor got when he brought down Morelos.

Correct decision was made. McGregor was going directly for the ball. Morelos was attempting to run in behind McGregor and blocked McGregor's direct run to the ball. Morelos ran in to McGregor, not the other way around. Definite foul by the forward. 

Just now, Stu101 said:

The yellow card for Tavernier.

Can't recall that TBH. 

One bad decision of any note. The whining from some Rangers fans on this could not be more pathetic. 

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I think Stokes should've been sent off, but I've not seen any evidence Beaton had a nightmare otherwise.

I'd even go as far as commending Craig Thomson for having the conviction and belief to send off 3 players in what wasn't a dirty game, I can think of at least one occasion last season where a ref bottled sending off a 2nd player...

I think 1 of the Motherwell red cards (and penalty) was definitely wrong, but he's been conned by the player. The Goalkeeper one was such a tight call video evidence isn't even conclusive, but he perhaps shouldn't have overruled his linesman. McHugh deserved his 2 yellows.

Bobby Madden last week gave a penalty that Refs rarely have the balls to give, and didn't give one they rarely have the balls to turn away, both correct decisions. He probably showed some leniency in not showing Moult a 2nd yellow. He did miss Biwmam being pushed in the back with 2 hands in the box when jumping fir a header and the linesman didn't do anything either.

Consistency is the key!

If I see us get similar decisions for us that we've had against us so far, I'll be happy.

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14 minutes ago, Parklife said:

Yeah, as VAR worked wonderfully in the confederations cup... 

It was the 1st attempt and they balls it up. Bin the whole concept?  Rugby has eventually got it as right as it can probably be. Not perfect I know but I'm thoroughly fed up with wrong calls. 

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4 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

I think Stokes should've been sent off, but I've not seen any evidence Beaton had a nightmare otherwise.

I'd even go as far as commending Craig Thomson for having the conviction and belief to send off 3 players in what wasn't a dirty game, I can think of at least one occasion last season where a ref bottled sending off a 2nd player...

I think 1 of the Motherwell red cards (and penalty) was definitely wrong, but he's been conned by the player. The Goalkeeper one was such a tight call video evidence isn't even conclusive, but he perhaps shouldn't have overruled his linesman. McHugh deserved his 2 yellows.

Bobby Madden last week gave a penalty that Refs rarely have the balls to give, and didn't give one they rarely have the balls to turn away, both correct decisions. He probably showed some leniency in not showing Moult a 2nd yellow. He did miss Biwmam being pushed in the back with 2 hands in the box when jumping fir a header and the linesman didn't do anything either.

Consistency is the key!

If I see us get similar decisions for us that we've had against us so far, I'll be happy.

agree with this, I think he missed the stokes thing - was probably unsighted, but the rest of his game while maybe not perfect was far from a shocker. if we are talking shockers there are plenty we could choose from - one that springs to mind was a Mike McCurry performance at Ibrox against my team. In fact it wasn't a shocker it was cheating plain and simple. did he get "demoted"?  I honestly cant remember.

The furore over beaton is more to do with them being fairly well beaten by a neil lennon side than the refs performance. pretty much everyone can see that.

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3 minutes ago, Och Aye said:

It was the 1st attempt and they balls it up. Bin the whole concept?  Rugby has eventually got it as right as it can probably be. Not perfect I know but I'm thoroughly fed up with wrong calls. 

There's a school of thought that "they" didn't want VAR to work. The confederations cup would back that up.

:lol:

My problems with VAR would be if it's not a matter of fact eg in or out, it's a matter of opinion and 3 people could watch it and reach 3 different conclusions. The other problem might be an over reliance on it, and refs avoiding making calls and relying on VAR.

We often forget the 100s of decisions officials get right for every 1 they get wrong. I'm amazed at how often you get a tight offside call and after several replays, the linesman was right!

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5 minutes ago, Och Aye said:

It was the 1st attempt and they balls it up. Bin the whole concept?  Rugby has eventually got it as right as it can probably be. Not perfect I know but I'm thoroughly fed up with wrong calls. 

That's not why they should bin it. They should bin it because so many decisions in football are not black and white - they're down to interpretation. Use it for black and white decisions like offside and if the ball crossed the line, no issue with that. Use of it for everything else is just going to create more complaints about lack of consistency in officiating. 

You seems to think this will make what you think are "wrong calls" right all the time. It won't. It'll just lead to delays in a game and fresh complaints about inconsistent decisions.And that's before we even get in to who is going to pay for all the cameras and the extra official required to implement it... 

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31 minutes ago, Parklife said:

That's not why they should bin it. They should bin it because so many decisions in football are not black and white - they're down to interpretation. Use it for black and white decisions like offside and if the ball crossed the line, no issue with that. Use of it for everything else is just going to create more complaints about lack of consistency in officiating. 

You seems to think this will make what you think are "wrong calls" right all the time. It won't. It'll just lead to delays in a game and fresh complaints about inconsistent decisions.And that's before we even get in to who is going to pay for all the cameras and the extra official required to implement it... 

Not what I think at all. 

Personally I'd give captain 3 appeals per game much like tennis.

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5 minutes ago, Och Aye said:

Not what I think at all. 

Personally I'd give captain 3 appeals per game much like tennis.

You do wonder if they would use these tactically to disrupt the flow of the game?

1, 2 at a push is plenty. If you were right, you keep it. That would stop a team 1-0 up appealing 3 times in the last 5 minutes to break up the game.

I'd love to find a fair way of banning subs in injury time carrying on that train of thought.

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6 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

You do wonder if they would use these tactically to disrupt the flow of the game?

1, 2 at a push is plenty. If you were right, you keep it. That would stop a team 1-0 up appealing 3 times in the last 5 minutes to break up the game.

I'd love to find a fair way of banning subs in injury time carrying on that train of thought.

Yup, exactly what would happen. You'd get tactical use of challenges. The sports that utilise challenges well (NFL and tennis, for example) are made up of short individual points/plays where there's no flow, like there is in football. 

Challenges simply isn't a goer IMO. 

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19 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

You do wonder if they would use these tactically to disrupt the flow of the game?

1, 2 at a push is plenty. If you were right, you keep it. That would stop a team 1-0 up appealing 3 times in the last 5 minutes to break up the game.

I'd love to find a fair way of banning subs in injury time carrying on that train of thought.

Like that idea.

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2 hours ago, Stu101 said:

Off the top of my head..

Stokes should have gone for at least two yellows.

McGeouch getting a final warning, then giving away 2 fouls in the next 10 minutes (possibly 3 fouls - may have been McGregor who got the last one)

The free kick McGregor got when he brought down Morelos.

The yellow card for Tavernier.

I actually agree that he is one of the better refs in the league, He just had a bad game.

 

 

Dorrans should have went for grabbing player by throat...  

Hibs offside goal should have stood.

 

Just in case you missed these.

Edited by giblet
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People cite Rugby as an example of the video ref, but in my opinion and based only on the handful of games I've watched, it's over used.

It would take something away if every other goal had a delay while it was confirmed  to go back and check a shirt pull in the centre circle.

It's a difficult one, because it's all very well saying it's part of the game and gives you something to chat about in the pub, but surely getting the correct decision and result is important too... Clamping down on diving and play acting and retrospectively punishing such things might go a long way to improving things and make the refs job easier? Maybe this is the way to use video evidence?

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Had a wee look at Rangers Media, bloody hell. There is one poster who claims that Stokes and Lennon only took jobs at Hibs to be 'agitators' and to be fair this guy is very agitated, and seems to be advocating violent reprisals. His username cracked me up it is "Blue Dignity' :lol::lol:

(Sent to me by a mate - don't have an account with RM) 

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1 minute ago, sbcmfc said:

People cite Rugby as an example of the video ref, but in my opinion and based only on the handful of games I've watched, it's over used.

It would take something away if every other goal had a delay while it was confirmed  to go back and check a shirt pull in the centre circle.

It's a difficult one, because it's all very well saying it's part of the game and gives you something to chat about in the pub, but surely getting the correct decision and result is important too... Clamping down on diving and play acting and retrospectively punishing such things might go a long way to improving things and make the refs job easier? Maybe this is the way to use video evidence?

Pretty much agree with this. Video evidence is difficult to use during a game without disrupting the flow. Much like Parklife I can't see how it could be integrated into the actual game. 

Retrospective punishment on the other hand is where it could be used very effectively if the punishments were suitably severe. 

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Guest BlueGaz
22 minutes ago, giblet said:

Dorrans should have went for grabbing player by throat...  

Hibs offside goal should have stood.

 

Just in case you missed these.

You can change Stokes to at least 2 straight reds then, if Dorrans should have went (which he should have).

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Just now, BlueGaz said:

You can change Stokes to at least 2 straight reds then, if Dorrans should have went (which he should have).

I think we can just say that not for the first time a Scottish ref had a bad game.  Maybe something that hasnt been noticed through the years at Ibrox. ;)

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Guest BlueGaz
10 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

People cite Rugby as an example of the video ref, but in my opinion and based only on the handful of games I've watched, it's over used.

It would take something away if every other goal had a delay while it was confirmed  to go back and check a shirt pull in the centre circle.

It's a difficult one, because it's all very well saying it's part of the game and gives you something to chat about in the pub, but surely getting the correct decision and result is important too... Clamping down on diving and play acting and retrospectively punishing such things might go a long way to improving things and make the refs job easier? Maybe this is the way to use video evidence?

Agree.  I think blatant cheats/diving should be punished severely, that would help to stop it.  The two that stick out recently are the one against Celtic last season, Ross County??? and was there not one on Saturday as well???

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Guest BlueGaz
1 minute ago, giblet said:

I think we can just say that not for the first time a Scottish ref had a bad game.  Maybe something that hasnt been noticed through the years at Ibrox. ;)

:lol:  I never bother blaming refs after a game anymore, I think they are generally terrible across the board.  Its a given that our refs will make a fair amount of mistakes week in week out.

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I think the video ref in rugby works well. there are times when its over used though - when a try has quite clearly been scored but the ref goes to the video just to be sure. However the flip side I guess is when say a try is scored that looks fine and yet on the replay there has quite clearly been foul play - which the ref has suspected - but it allows him to check. it doesn't break the play up too much as the ref will wait until play has stopped to review.

agreed it might not work in football for all decisions but should be used for reviewing goal line close calls and possibly to review violent play/ behaviour. the ref stops the game usually for this stuff anyway so whats the problem with a quick 30 second review.

not sure it would work with offside - as what if the linesman puts his flag up everyone stops except the striker who scores and then it shows him to be onside. I guess no-one would play to the linesmans flag.

totally agree - retrospective punishment on diving/ cynical foul play etc should be done and should be severe.

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