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Lithuania v Scotland


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11 minutes ago, gazfaebolton said:

Its a good job supporters don't take the same attitude as some players Hampden would be shite on matchdays with no atmosphere or we could all just stand there like miserable cnuts

Nothing wrong with being a miserable cnut. It's a national tradition.

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37 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Nothing wrong with being a miserable cnut. It's a national tradition.

Is it necessary to play the stereotype quite so well though? 

In 53 years I have witnessed more Scottish national team cliffhangers than Dr Who, but until the daleks exterminate us again I will keep some faith. 

I wouldnt place a 20 quid bet on us qualifying right enough ?

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18 hours ago, Toepoke said:

Aye let's drop Tierney, Robertson, Brown etc and replace them with singers....

 

It would be good if the players did show a lot of pride in the country like other countries do during the anthem, it's not the end of the world when they don't sing it with passion but it wouldn't hurt them to show a little bit of interest........like the rugby players do.

I may be on my own here but I often get the impression the national side is a hinderence to our players. There's glimpses in the last two wins that this may not be the case but over the years some players have given that impression.

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2 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

It would be good if the players did show a lot of pride in the country like other countries do during the anthem, it's not the end of the world when they don't sing it with passion but it wouldn't hurt them to show a little bit of interest........like the rugby players do.

The players looked respectfully focused to me. It's not as if they were whistling or picking their noses during the anthem.

 

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On 9/1/2017 at 9:39 PM, ProudScot said:

Poor performances led by a poor manager who has cost us another tournament 

I like the idea that we have some right to be at the tournament and that Strachan's influence is purely negative and has made us worse. :D

Not like we've been pish for 2 decades now and Strachan's been entirely par for the course. How many times in the last 2 decades have we missed out by a hair at the end of qualification, pretty much always attributable to some poor result(s) earlier in the campaign? That's the story of us in recent times, it goes back well before Strachan came in.

Strachan's not improved us as much as I'd hoped. The Croatia results really had me feeling optimistic that we could kick on, but it didn't happen. To his credit, WGS has massively changed the personnel now and we have almost a next generation Scotland side, which will grow and be better in the next campaign, whether he's at the helm or not. I certainly feel like we've made progress personnel wise.. Armstrong, Fraser, Phillips, Paterson, Robertson, Tierney.

I understand the frustration that we look like we might 'do it again', but to lay the blame on Strachan would seem to be missing the bigger picture.

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21 hours ago, gazfaebolton said:

Its a good job supporters don't take the same attitude as some players Hampden would be shite on matchdays with no atmosphere or we could all just stand there like miserable cnuts

You know things can't be that bad when people are scraping the barrel for complaints. :D

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4 minutes ago, andyD said:

I like the idea that we have some right to be at the tournament and that Strachan's influence is purely negative and has made us worse. :D

Not like we've been pish for 2 decades now and Strachan's been entirely par for the course. How many times in the last 2 decades have we missed out by a hair at the end of qualification, pretty much always attributable to some poor result(s) earlier in the campaign? That's the story of us in recent times, it goes back well before Strachan came in.

Strachan's not improved us as much as I'd hoped. The Croatia results really had me feeling optimistic that we could kick on, but it didn't happen. To his credit, WGS has massively changed the personnel now and we have almost a next generation Scotland side, which will grow and be better in the next campaign, whether he's at the helm or not. I certainly feel like we've made progress personnel wise.. Armstrong, Fraser, Phillips, Paterson, Robertson, Tierney.

I understand the frustration that we look like we might 'do it again', but to lay the blame on Strachan would seem to be missing the bigger picture.

Strachan took us on a good run that lasted from Zagreb right through to Ireland at Celtic..... it really wasn't that he had us playing good football (though the win against Croatia at Hampden is up there with Ukraine at Hampden as the best all round Scotland performance I have seen in my life time) but more he made us hard to beat, and this was kind of his downfall, as his tactics were so one dimensional that teams saw how easy it was to beat us (hence the sudden "slump" in the 2nd half of the campaign).

Problem seemed to be that Strachan struggled to get a full team together of players who were at form at club level, and the sudden rise in fortune can probably be put down to using Celtic as a backbone for the team.

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As for the match.. I though we were.. ok.

It was great to see us being positive and going out and saying "ok, we're gonna beat you". We were however, very wasteful, and also a bit lucky that Novikovas isn't sharp, so hooked that shot wide early doors (tho Gordon did do really well at closing and making himself big).

For the players:
Gordon - had a great game. Scared Novi into missing. Got to the freekick in the top corner well, had good hands all day and made the 2nd goal with quick thinking distribution. Couldn't want more from him.

Tierney - Did ok. He's wasted on the right tho, as it kills him as an attacking force. We were a bit lucky their winger was so right footed as it played into Tierney's stronger foot. Once Paterson's back we need to find a better way to use Tierney.
Robertson - Excellent. Got up and down, really showed his quality with several deliveries and what a goal.
Berra - At the heart of most of our panicked moments. Seemed off the pace to me.
Mulgrew - Did well. His comfort on the ball was really useful and he distributed well from the back. 1st choice center back right now.

Forrest - Worked hard, but not as effective as I'd want or hoped. Seemed a little reluctant to run at folks, tho Tierney not being able to offer a natural overlap probably didn't help him. Would look to Fraser for the Malta game.
Phillips - Did really well first half, almost everything went thru him on the left. A bit out of it 2nd half, but also we weren't hitting him as often then. Good work in the build up to Robertson's goal. Well done.
Brown - Should have god booked to miss the Malta game. Otherwise did well. Put his foot in where needed and covered a lot of ground, letting Armstrong and McArthur commit forward.
McArthur - Overall pretty poor for me. His passing was all over the place, seemed to float around fairly ineffectively and didn't pick up his runner a few times. The goal covers up a below average outing for him imo.
Armstrong - Good performance. No fear from him, got on the ball, moved it well and had a few cracks which weren't far away. Great for him to get the goal, good run and a solid header. Important player for us right now.

Griffiths - Did well. Will be frustrated to not get a goal, but deserved one for his industry. Made life hard for their defense and those around him benefited.

Martin - Not on long, but did ok. Unlucky not to score, don't know where their keeper pulled that save from as he'd looked dodgy all day.
Ritchie - His lack of pace made him feel like the wrong sub to me. Was pretty ineffective, tho smart work for the quick throw. Should have scored when 1v1, yes he slips after, but his previous touch was really poor and the keepers already pushed the ball away.
McGinn - Didn't really have time to do anything, 1 pretty terrible wayward pass, but had his head up and put the ball thru for Ritchie's 1v1.

So overall a bit well done, tho I feel like there's more to come. I would have preferred Bannan to McArthur, I think his dynamism and ability on the ball would have been so much more effective, but he's away injured now. I guess we wanted McArthur's 'steel', tho once again i saw no evidence of it's existence. The performance left me feeling confident that we have enough to make sure of the 3 points tonight tho, and Slovenia and Slovakia will not like the stats and highlights from this game.

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3 minutes ago, andyD said:

We were however, very wasteful, and also a bit lucky that Novikovas isn't sharp, so hooked that shot wide early doors (tho Gordon did do really well at closing and making himself big).

 

As said earlier, I would put that more down to the plastic pitch, as it did seem that a number of players (on both sides) "struggled" with the bounce of the ball or misplaced passes/shots, that when played on a natural surface would have seen better results.

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27 minutes ago, wanderer said:

Strachan took us on a good run that lasted from Zagreb right through to Ireland at Celtic..... it really wasn't that he had us playing good football (though the win against Croatia at Hampden is up there with Ukraine at Hampden as the best all round Scotland performance I have seen in my life time) but more he made us hard to beat, and this was kind of his downfall, as his tactics were so one dimensional that teams saw how easy it was to beat us (hence the sudden "slump" in the 2nd half of the campaign).

Problem seemed to be that Strachan struggled to get a full team together of players who were at form at club level, and the sudden rise in fortune can probably be put down to using Celtic as a backbone for the team.

Not sure i quite understand what you're saying with "he made us hard to beat, so teams saw how easy it was to beat us". For me, most of the games we lost were where we looked scared. Proper rabbits in the headlights stuff, people lingering on the ball too long, scared to get rid of it, or folks so desperate to get rid that they rushed the pass and gave it away. The worst thing being that it was largely done by our most experienced players, playing at 'the highest level'.. Darren Fletcher, McArthur, Hutton, Maloney. Players who should be doing a lot better.

Are the current players significantly better footballers than those of a year or two ago? no. But we have some confidence back and just looking at how we moved the ball around against Lithuania told you that we have a very different atmosphere in the side now. There's still some worries.. Berra, McArthur and Forrest all gave it away cheaply on more than one occasion, but as a whole we looked so much more assured.

I think part of the problem for Strachan when he did make us hard to beat was that we very much lacked in on form attacking players. Strikers have long been a problem, and while I thought he did well on Friday, Griffiths is 14 caps in and yet to score from open play. Fletcher and Naismith put in a lot of hard work and linked up well for a couple of years, but ultimately people will just remember the lack of goals (15 from 75 between them). Phillips was off form, Fraser a Championship bench player, Burke was in daipers, Forrest underperforming. Snodgrass can be great, but also inconsistent and we're all aware of Anya's low quality end product.

Players have emerged over the last year or so who let us do things slightly differently, and that's given me a fair bit of hope. We might actually make it to the playoffs at this point. It's still a massive ask, but we are a threat to 2nd place now. The tough question will be.. if we don't make it, do we keep strachan on? I imagine it'll depend on those two games against Slovenia and Slovakia, but I am starting to feel like he's as good a pair of hands as any available to take this squad forwards.

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8 minutes ago, wanderer said:

As said earlier, I would put that more down to the plastic pitch, as it did seem that a number of players (on both sides) "struggled" with the bounce of the ball or misplaced passes/shots, that when played on a natural surface would have seen better results.

Quite possible, aye. Some maybe train on it more  than others, so are more familiar with how the ball moves on it.
But it doesn't excuse not tracking runners and for things like McArthur's pass to Novikovas, for what should have been the opening goal, I can't even see what he was thinking of doing. there's no good option in the direction he's passing, Berra doesn't want that pass even if it's to feet, it's suicidal. It's almost like he's just hoofed it backwards somewhere to get rid of it, instead of using his strength and letting someone give him an option (e.g. a 6 yard ball laid off in front of Robertson who was running forwards)

So for some of the missed chances, sure, the pitch has an effect. But decision making is still lacking for a few people.

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9 minutes ago, andyD said:

Not sure i quite understand what you're saying with "he made us hard to beat, so teams saw how easy it was to beat us". For me, most of the games we lost were where we looked scared. Proper rabbits in the headlights stuff, people lingering on the ball too long, scared to get rid of it, or folks so desperate to get rid that they rushed the pass and gave it away. The worst thing being that it was largely done by our most experienced players, playing at 'the highest level'.. Darren Fletcher, McArthur, Hutton, Maloney. Players who should be doing a lot better.

Are the current players significantly better footballers than those of a year or two ago? no. But we have some confidence back and just looking at how we moved the ball around against Lithuania told you that we have a very different atmosphere in the side now. There's still some worries.. Berra, McArthur and Forrest all gave it away cheaply on more than one occasion, but as a whole we looked so much more assured.

I think part of the problem for Strachan when he did make us hard to beat was that we very much lacked in on form attacking players. Strikers have long been a problem, and while I thought he did well on Friday, Griffiths is 14 caps in and yet to score from open play. Fletcher and Naismith put in a lot of hard work and linked up well for a couple of years, but ultimately people will just remember the lack of goals (15 from 75 between them). Phillips was off form, Fraser a Championship bench player, Burke was in daipers, Forrest underperforming. Snodgrass can be great, but also inconsistent and we're all aware of Anya's low quality end product.

Players have emerged over the last year or so who let us do things slightly differently, and that's given me a fair bit of hope. We might actually make it to the playoffs at this point. It's still a massive ask, but we are a threat to 2nd place now. The tough question will be.. if we don't make it, do we keep strachan on? I imagine it'll depend on those two games against Slovenia and Slovakia, but I am starting to feel like he's as good a pair of hands as any available to take this squad forwards.

Look at games like Poland away or Ireland at Celtic Park..... we did not play particularly well, but all the players put in a shift and did what was asked of him.

Part of his problem I felt was the reluctance to change, and set in his way that guys like Hanley, Anya, Steven Fletcher, Nasimith etc etc etc were all worthy of a place in the starting line up, regardless of form at club level..... his attitude towards this has changed/softened of late, and his teams do seem to take more a element of players who are on form at club level (you saw this on Friday with Snodgrass dropped, when not so long ago that would have been considered unthinkable.... even Matt Phillips starting was a bit of a eye opener).

Really, bar Armstrong and Tierney, nobody new has really emerged over the last two years when the slump started to sink in under Strachan.

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14 minutes ago, andyD said:

Quite possible, aye. Some maybe train on it more  than others, so are more familiar with how the ball moves on it.
But it doesn't excuse not tracking runners and for things like McArthur's pass to Novikovas, for what should have been the opening goal, I can't even see what he was thinking of doing. there's no good option in the direction he's passing, Berra doesn't want that pass even if it's to feet, it's suicidal. It's almost like he's just hoofed it backwards somewhere to get rid of it, instead of using his strength and letting someone give him an option (e.g. a 6 yard ball laid off in front of Robertson who was running forwards)

So for some of the missed chances, sure, the pitch has an effect. But decision making is still lacking for a few people.

McArthur took a long time to get into the game on Friday (for the first 20 minutes I thought he was the major weak link in the team) yet got better as the game went on.

I think the pitch did play a bigger factor than what most think, there was a fair few times someone would make a cross, and you could see what they were trying to do, but the super light ball on a plastic surface played a part and a number of players mistimed their run to connect with it, hence why so many things were wasted (actually found it odd last week that they trained at Mar Hall, rather than through at Oriam on the plastic pitches)

Edited by wanderer
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8 minutes ago, wanderer said:

Look at games like Poland away or Ireland at Celtic Park..... we did not play particularly well, but all the players put in a shift and did what was asked of him.

 

Can't agree with the Poland game. We played fantastic football for the first hour or so. It was this and the performance away to Germany as well as Croatia that had me so optimistic about GS. Seems like the Ireland game was the line in the sand, horrible football match with a great result and it's obviously gone wrong since then mostly. 

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4 hours ago, Paulo2576 said:

Can't agree with the Poland game. We played fantastic football for the first hour or so. It was this and the performance away to Germany as well as Croatia that had me so optimistic about GS. Seems like the Ireland game was the line in the sand, horrible football match with a great result and it's obviously gone wrong since then mostly. 

Ireland away was dreadful. Had them by the throat early in the second half - a second goal for us that day would have been fatal to their chances.

But what did we do instead? Settle for a draw which came back to us with a vengeance in Georgia.

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5 hours ago, Paulo2576 said:

Can't agree with the Poland game. We played fantastic football for the first hour or so. It was this and the performance away to Germany as well as Croatia that had me so optimistic about GS. Seems like the Ireland game was the line in the sand, horrible football match with a great result and it's obviously gone wrong since then mostly. 

he stuck too long with his favourites despite your Griffiths eg chucking in 40 club goals

he's only now just about stopped that although still called snoddy into squad due to past service

its cost us no doubt

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