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Politics At Scotland Games


andyg83

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ame="Langtonian" post="26521" timestamp="1412101195"]oh I did[/quo

You do realise what FoS is about?

yes

You also do realise that the referendum was a possible once in a lifetime opportunity?

this is where we disagree,i dont think it was,i still believe

If so on both counts, you clearly didn't have much of a vested interest in the outcome regardless of your vote.

pish

You sing FoS with no hint of embarrassment till your heart's content. I certainly won't be.

i and many more wont be embarrassed to sing it

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The two posts above sum it up for me.

If you changed the reference to Scotland for Rangers and Celtic it would be ridiculed and slagged rotten by most folk on the board.

Sport isn't politics. It never should be. Why alienate and divide people that support the national team?

If you want to go to a yes rally then go to the march in edinburgh? Seems an incredibly bigoted and arrogant view that we should all toe the line and turn the matches into a statement for the benefit of the 45.

A lot of people I know in Germany (all yes voters) said the game had been hijacked a bit and that they hoped it wouldn't be repeated.

I really hope this all blows over and we can get back to some sort of normality.

You cant compare supporting Club sides with supporting your Country. The very fact you are there supporting your Country playing against another Country is political.

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Bzzzz, on 30 Sept 2014 - 1:15 PM, said:snapback.png

It is absolutely impossible to separate "nationalism" and the national fitba team, they go hand in hand. I for one don't give a fk if "No voters" feel awkward, not interested in the slightest. Going to watch the national team is somewhere where we can openly and loudly express our pride in our nation, if you are a No voter and want to pretend that you are all of a sudden proud of your nation then fine, who's to stop you? just as anyone wishes to express their pride in the 45 or Yes or in support of independence then it's the same. Isn't that the whole point of apparently living in a democracy?
To compare this to the OF's bigotry is insulting, the independence movement is not about hatred and persecution... well, not from our side it isn't anyway.

The problem with the above is you say that No Voters " pretend " and " yes " voter express their pride , therefore like the old firm you are pre judging based on a demographic in this case voting behaviour , may be a more subtle form of prejudice than the Lauds deplorable bile this is still a form of prejudice

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The two posts above sum it up for me.

If you changed the reference to Scotland for Rangers and Celtic it would be ridiculed and slagged rotten by most folk on the board..

I really don't think it's as simple as that.

Celtic and Rangers participation in their respective league and cup competitions is not "representative".

The Scottish national side is.

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Bzzzz, on 30 Sept 2014 - 1:15 PM, said:snapback.png

The problem with the above is you say that No Voters " pretend " and " yes " voter express their pride , therefore like the old firm you are pre judging based on a demographic in this case voting behaviour , may be a more subtle form of prejudice than the Lauds deplorable bile this is still a form of prejudice

You know damn fine it is more complicated than just a basic "prejudice" as much as Scotland's national team is not "just" a football team.

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I'll be wearing a Yes t-shirt at the game.

Not really trying to make a statement or trying to wind anyone up, it's just going to mean a lot to me personally somehow when my country are playing for the first time after the 18th. If I have to cover it up I will.

I also have no problem with No voters wearing their t-shirts - i'll stand side by side with them to cheer on Scotland. No right, no wrong, everyone voted how they thought best, and if they are a fellow Scotland fans (as opposed to the knuckle draggers in George Square on the 19th) then we're on the same side when the team are playing.

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here.patriotism being replaced by extreme nationalism...

Evidence please?

To be honest I have no patriotism left at this point. I am no nationalist I voted for self determination not because of some flag waving reason.

I'll be wearing a Yes t-shirt at the game.

, everyone voted how they thought best,

My issue with this is who did they think it was best for (in both cases)?

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I'll be wearing a Yes t-shirt at the game.

Not really trying to make a statement or trying to wind anyone up, it's just going to mean a lot to me personally somehow when my country are playing for the first time after the 18th. If I have to cover it up I will.

You probably will have to cover it up being honest, or at least until you get into the stadium. Can't see strathclydes finest letting you wear it, as in their eyes it might cause antaganism.

We need to really think about what impact turning the scotland games (at home anyway) will have on the crowd and atmosphere.

Fair enough ye might get rid of they bad no voters, but if the rest of the general public who could have picked up they tickets see whats going on, they might not want to get involved with it, regardless of which way they voted and you could be looking at a 35-40,000 full hampden which has a big impact on atmosphere a reduction like that.

Also, is this not the same board that that has moaned about polotics in sport?

And do uefa/fifa not fine countries for poltical stances at the games?

Sure as hell, if the the sfa get fined for your actions the ticket prices will go up to cover their costs.

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Also, is this not the same board that that has moaned about polotics in sport?

Here we go again - how can anyone say this referendum has nothing to do with the national team - sorry but that is quite frankly preposterous.

We only have a national team because of an historic anomaly so by rights we should not even have one. You cannot separate out a decision which means we remain a special case especially now we have chosen this. I was happy to argue the case before because we had never had a say but now.....

There seem to be an awful lot of people who bizarrely are not getting this :blink:

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Bad no voters?

All I am saying is anyone who voted No needs to understand what this means. In fact so does anyone who voted Yes need to understand what a No vote means

Edited by Lamia
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Can we please stop saying politics and football are separate. It is ridiculous and obviously wrong remember back to the 2016 draw Gibraltar were drawn in Spain's group but got dropped into ours. What short selective memories some of us have. Just so you have no doubt here are the details and a link to the original.

Political situation: based on decisions taken by the UEFA Executive Committee, Azerbaijan and
Armenia; as well as Spain and Gibraltar shall not be drawn in the same group.
If one team is drawn into the group where the other team in question has already been
allocated, that team shall automatically be allocated to the next group and another team
will be drawn from the same pot to fill the position in the previous group.
In case Azerbaijan are drawn into Group I and Armenia is left amongst the two last draw
balls, Armenia shall automatically be allocated to Group H and the last remaining team to
Group I.
In case Spain is drawn into Group H and Gibraltar is left amongst the two last draw balls,
Gibraltar shall automatically be allocated to Group G and the last remaining team to Group
H.

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/competitions/Draws/02/04/64/31/2046431_DOWNLOAD.pdf

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Can we please stop saying politics and football are separate. It is ridiculous and obviously wrong remember back to the 2016 draw Gibraltar were drawn in Spain's group but got dropped into ours. What short selective memories some of us have. Just so you have no doubt here are the details and a link to the original.

Political situation: based on decisions taken by the UEFA Executive Committee, Azerbaijan and
Armenia; as well as Spain and Gibraltar shall not be drawn in the same group.
If one team is drawn into the group where the other team in question has already been
allocated, that team shall automatically be allocated to the next group and another team
will be drawn from the same pot to fill the position in the previous group.
In case Azerbaijan are drawn into Group I and Armenia is left amongst the two last draw
balls, Armenia shall automatically be allocated to Group H and the last remaining team to
Group I.
In case Spain is drawn into Group H and Gibraltar is left amongst the two last draw balls,
Gibraltar shall automatically be allocated to Group G and the last remaining team to Group
H.

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/competitions/Draws/02/04/64/31/2046431_DOWNLOAD.pdf

Politics is an integral part of just about everything. I thought after this whole referendum process people might now get that but sadly it appears not.

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Here we go again - how can anyone say this referendum has nothing to do with the national team - sorry but that is quite frankly preposterous.

We only have a national team because of an historic anomaly so by rights we should not even have one. You cannot separate out a decision which means we remain a special case especially now we have chosen this. I was happy to argue the case before because we had never had a say but now.....

There seem to be an awful lot of people who bizarrely are not getting this :blink:

The Scottish electorate could return a majority of SNP MPs to Westminster at each and every general election for a number of years now, but they haven't.

The Scottish electorate could keep the SNP in a majority at Holyrood or in a coalition with the Greens and the Scottish Socialist Party to maintain the independence momentum.

So to say we've never had a say before is a little obtuse and to think we'll never have that opportunity again is pretty short sighted.

There was 18 years between the two devolution referendums, that's not "a lifetime".

We're on a journey, we're just not there yet.

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Armenia & Azerbaijan were also draw together.

This doesn't really add anything to anything.

And they were then put into separate groups because of politics.

It proves the fact that politics is embedded in football and undermines any view that politics and football are separate.

Lamia is correct politics is inescapable in almost every area of life, you can ignore it but you can't remove it. Telling folk they shouldn't wear Yes badges etc is a political stance as well.

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Once you start being an apologist for prejudice where will you stop?

I'll express my opinion how I like thanks, it is entirely my opinion that No voters are either stupid, weak or unbelievably selfish and ignorant. If that's 'prejudice!then big baws. Anyone wants to try persuade me otherwise then go ahead.

I'll be at Ibrox supporting my national team, not a pathetic regional one.

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So to say we've never had a say before is a little obtuse

As a voter, I have never before been asked if I wanted Scotland to be an independent country. It has never before been offered to me in a plebicite.

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As a voter, I have never before been asked if I wanted Scotland to be an independent country. It has never before been offered to me in a plebicite.

You've never been asked that explicit question before, but as a voter you have the option to vote SNP at each and every election. The SNP's main purpose is independence for Scotland.

Like I say, a little obtuse not to recognise that a vote for SNP is a vote for independence.

And a little naive not to recognise that the SNP have never received a majority of the Scottish electorate voting for Westminster MPs, have only secured a majority in Holyrood in this term and then expect that electorate to back independence at the first time of asking.

It's not "No". It just "No for now".

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The Scottish electorate could return a majority of SNP MPs to Westminster at each and every general election for a number of years now, but they haven't.

The Scottish electorate could keep the SNP in a majority at Holyrood or in a coalition with the Greens and the Scottish Socialist Party to maintain the independence momentum.

So to say we've never had a say before is a little obtuse and to think we'll never have that opportunity again is pretty short sighted.

There was 18 years between the two devolution referendums, that's not "a lifetime".

We're on a journey, we're just not there yet.

What an utterly ridiculous arguement which I do not even deem worthy of addressing. If you don't understand why it is nonsense you don't understand much about this issue. I really thought people had become more enlightened through this process. This board tells me otherwise and that saddens me because I thought it was the one positive thing to come out of it.

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What an utterly ridiculous arguement which I do not even deem worthy of addressing. If you don't understand why it is nonsense you don't understand much about this issue. I really thought people had become more enlightened through this process. This board tells me otherwise and that saddens me because I thought it was the one positive thing to come out of it.

Ooofft. Is it any wonder the 2014 Yes campaign was unsuccessful if that's how you engaged with the electorate?

Independence is a given and if you don't understand it I'm not going deem you worthy enough to explain it to you.

It's far from a ridiculous argument. The first, second and fourth sentences are all facts and the last sentence is a statement of hope

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