stocky Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 (edited) Logic does not dictate that Speirs is telling the truth. You only believe that because it fits your agenda. Logic dictates that there is not enough evidence to draw a conclusion. I'm still waiting on an answer as to what proof there is that the Herald were threatened by Parks? Again without proof it's just another shit throwing exercise. At least we can agree on the singing. FFS i have no agenda... Yes Logic dictates there is not enough evidence, however the accusation was made, WHY? If you compare it to the Celtic guy accused of racism, he denied it, the other guy said it happened. The accuser won the case as on the probability of evidence 'it was said' same here. I.M.O. The director probably said it.. no proof of parks threatening, i concur here, Honestly I have no agenda, you are getting me mixed up, I am only here for the debate.. Edited January 29, 2016 by stocky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Why are you happy he isnt.? Why do you presume he is making it up. The probability is that he made the statement, a Rangers man at Ibrox ( on match day ?) the chances of him saying so are quite high IMO... Speirs has nothing to gain from lying, the article was strong enough without the director bit, why add it. The director and of course Rangers would deny it. they are the accused party Mr Blue, you are a very reasonable poster, i have nowt against Rangers, but to think the Director didnt state this(when we dont know who the director is) is Naive Spiers was niave if he cannot substantiate teh claim, although again, i believe there is more to come out of this.. The only guy I believe wouldnt say it is Dave King, all other Rangers men have sung it at some point in their lives.. FFS i did in the 80's, i just sang along... didnt know what it was about.... What gives you any reason to think the statement was not made.... I'm not saying Speirs is a liar. We can't tell whether he is or not. As for all this Rangers man pish. I'm a Rangers man and I've never sung that song. It was one of the few things my old man told me that was any use. My Gran his mother-in-law, was Catholic and Celtic daft. He explained what that song was about and I have never sung it. Some of my friends have and I always pull them up on it. This 90 minute bigot excuse is crap as far as I'm concerned. There's no excuse. So how do you know this unnamed director is different to me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 What idiot put the poll up? Was Speirs talking the truth or lying?Options are Yes or No. Obviously never ran that one past the electoral commission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 aye you need to delete "or lying" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynnyboy Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Why would a lifelong Rangers fan write lies about what happened? Is it not far more likely a lifelong Rangers fan is absolutely sick to death of his club condoning and it could be argued endorsing this kind of antiquated behaviour that he decided to highlight it via his fortunate position as a relatively well respected journalist? In scots law this would never ever stick so the herald have been extremely weak in their handling of this. The onus of defamation would be on the director to prove. Speirs being the accused party would simply use the defence of veritas, that the statement was true. Veritas covers opinions and interactions. There is absolutely no way this could be proved one way or the other and the veritas covers both the herald and speirs. They have pandered to the threats and negative impact that results when an organisation or individual receives when they dare critic that establishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShedTA Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 I'm a lifelong Rangers supporter (47 years and counting) and every time I hear that song I cringe. It's an utter embarrassment that in this day and age folk think that sort of language is acceptable. I'd jail every tosspot that sings it. Probably publicly shame them too, although for quite a few of the "choir" that would be a badge of honour. So, why would I believe that a man intelligent enough to be successful in business and made a Director of the club would say what Speirs has alleged? They'd have to be stupid or pissed. However as I don't know which Director the allegation is against or Speirs in any way, I can't make any conclusion from the available evidence. Both outcomes are equally likely. The law sees it differently. Speirs either cannot or will not back up his allegation. That is therefore putting him on the dodgy side of the tracks, legally and hence The Herald apology. I'm led to believe Speirs is freelance therefore he hasn't been sacked as he wasn't employed. I don't know about this Haggerty woman as I haven't a clue who she is. It seems to me that folk will believe what suits their agenda and are incapable of rational thought as regards this. ShedTA is the best example of this. There's no proof of anything but he's calling Parks a khunt. Why? Thanks for the mention RB. I understand one of your own supporters club sites was victoriously telling everyone about the parks influence. As I have said before if its not true i whole heartedly apologise to anyone offended. If it is true it's wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocky Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 I'm not saying Speirs is a liar. We can't tell whether he is or not. As for all this Rangers man pish. I'm a Rangers man and I've never sung that song. It was one of the few things my old man told me that was any use. My Gran his mother-in-law, was Catholic and Celtic daft. He explained what that song was about and I have never sung it. Some of my friends have and I always pull them up on it. This 90 minute bigot excuse is crap as far as I'm concerned. There's no excuse. So how do you know this unnamed director is different to me? ok cool. i had no idea what it was about when i sang along.. when i did i stopped, and it was one of the reasons i stopped following rangers as well TBH, ( all the union jackery was another}) a lot of people sing the song on match days, they might or might not be Rangers men, maybe that was the wrong phrase, i dont know what the correct one would be. I still believe the balance f probability is Spiers is telling the truth. He has no record of ever lying before, and he is a professional journalist. Why Lie now. His article was strong enough without said sentence. Why would he lie, what is the reason for this.? There is obviously a reason for Rangers/the Director to deny.( surely you agree with that) Anyway we will need to agree to disagree here, as neither of us know what was said. More might come out and we will take it from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 FFS i have no agenda... Yes Logic dictates there is not enough evidence, however the accusation was made, WHY? If you compare it to the Celtic guy accused of racism, he denied it, the other guy said it happened. The accuser won the case as on the probability of evidence 'it was said' same here. I.M.O. The director probably said it.. no proof of parks threatening, i concur here, Honestly I have no agenda, you are getting me mixed up, I am only here for the debate.. I don't think it was fair what happened to Tonev but it comes down to the different burdens of proof.In this case it's the legal version where you have to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt". In the Tonev case it was a different level along the lines of "more than likely" ( I can't remember the right words for this one ?). So you can't compare the two. I don't agree it is more than likely the director said it. It's at best 50-50. I can also think of plenty of reasons for Speirs to lie but again theres no evidence either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Admin4 please could you delete "or lying" from the question otherwise it is confusing. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giblet Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Nothing like a rammy to divert attention from the lack of signings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 ok cool. i had no idea what it was about when i sang along.. when i did i stopped, and it was one of the reasons i stopped following rangers as well TBH, ( all the union jackery was another}) a lot of people sing the song on match days, they might or might not be Rangers men, maybe that was the wrong phrase, i dont know what the correct one would be. I still believe the balance f probability is Spiers is telling the truth. He has no record of ever lying before, and he is a professional journalist. Why Lie now. His article was strong enough without said sentence. Why would he lie, what is the reason for this.? There is obviously a reason for Rangers/the Director to deny.( surely you agree with that) Anyway we will need to agree to disagree here, as neither of us know what was said. More might come out and we will take it from there. The truth is out there! (Back next month, I cannot wait)Hopefully we'll get the truth and if the Director has said this I'd want him gone from the club as soon as possible. If he didn't infant Speirs brought to book by the courts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Thanks for the mention RB. I understand one of your own supporters club sites was victoriously telling everyone about the parks influence. As I have said before if its not true i whole heartedly apologise to anyone offended. If it is true it's wrong.Right, so today you're happy to believe one of the supporters sites when the normal response to them is "mentalists"?Really? That's all it takes? Ok, here's an inside track for you. Speirs is a liar and cannot be trusted, he also shot JR! Let me know if you need any other secrets or conspiracy theories sorted for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShedTA Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Right, so today you're happy to believe one of the supporters sites when the normal response to them is "mentalists"? Really? That's all it takes? Ok, here's an inside track for you. Speirs is a liar and cannot be trusted, he also shot JR! Let me know if you need any other secrets or conspiracy theories sorted for you. Don't be a f@cker RB. I used them as an example that the information was coming from your own supporters. They believe it. If its not true fine - but its all over the internet. For what it's worth most of them arent mentalists. That's the worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Don't be a f@cker RB. I used them as an example that the information was coming from your own supporters. They believe it. If its not true fine - but its all over the internet. For what it's worth most of them arent mentalists. That's the worry. Look, I'm trying to be fair but it's not easy when you don't get the same back.I Just because something is on the Internet doesn't make it true. You should know this by now. There's sites that'll tell you the world is flat FFS. Depending which site you're talking about they are all mentalists. I've been chucked off several of them for being reasonable and for pulling them up for their bigotry. They have to be bad to make me the good guy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShedTA Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Look, I'm trying to be fair but it's not easy when you don't get the same back. I Just because something is on the Internet doesn't make it true. You should know this by now. There's sites that'll tell you the world is flat FFS. Depending which site you're talking about they are all mentalists. I've been chucked off several of them for being reasonable and for pulling them up for their bigotry. They have to be bad to make me the good guy! Ok well let's see. The full story will come out I guess. Tbh I just think none of it is worth folk getting sacked over - its a dangerous route to go down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin4 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 What idiot put the poll up?Was Speirs talking the truth or lying?Options are Yes or No. Obviously never ran that one past the electoral commission. I did. As requested. The strange thing is that 8 people (so far) found it logical enough to express an opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabmania Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 So I can't answer 'he was telling the truth'? Nor can I answer 'he was lying?'. Ah well, I'm out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Ok well let's see. The full story will come out I guess. Tbh I just think none of it is worth folk getting sacked over - its a dangerous route to go down.See my post to Stocky. Let's hope the truth comes out.As I've said quite a few times, I don't think Speirs was a staffer so couldn't be sacked. Unless of course I'm mistaken in my belief? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky Masher Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 See my post to Stocky. Let's hope the truth comes out. As I've said quite a few times, I don't think Speirs was a staffer so couldn't be sacked. Unless of course I'm mistaken in my belief? He's also got a column in the Times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil r Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 What illiterate thought up the poll question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin4 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 HI Admin4. You were quick to change the title. So can we have a poll as fast. I suggest "Was Speirs talking the truth or lying". Let's see what the TAMB view is on this issue. What illiterate thought up the poll question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Why don't you fix it then? The options are: Was Speirs talking the truth? responses Yes/No. or Was Speirs talking the truth or lying? responses Talking the truth/Lying. You choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce778 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 well it wouldnt be out of character to say in a conversation at Ibrox, the 'song' is fantastic. 1000's sing it, so that view must be held amongst many. Many at Ibrox, dont even think it is offensive. I have read Spiers columns for years and as far as i recall, he has never said or printed lies before, he has no form for lying. so why would he lie now? Please prove me incorrect if you wish, i dont read all his columns. On the balance of reason, the chances of a director saying ' that 'are high, and the chances of Spiers lying are quite low. .IMO As a professional he will be aware of the consequences of lying. It is all bluff and Bluster.Rangers need to do more to eradicate this problem, this doesnt help it. I also think a lot more will come out of this . But hey, thats just my opinion http://youtu.be/pBRnjBw8NEwSpiers does have history of being economical with the truth when it comes to Rangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu101 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Quite. Whilst I like Spiers as a writer, he has been caught out before. Why doesn't he just release the emails? Nothing to lose, and everything for him to gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu101 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 The way I see it. Speirs writes a column Rangers complain re director and song Herald panic and apologise Speirs is angry and writes his piece The Hag - rangers hater and Phil mac's buddy - sides with spiers and gets her jotters. Speirs only has to release the emails... This. Great career move for Angela though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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