The How Of 9/11 Revealed?

[thplinth]

I think I might give Crossing The Rubicon a go as well. He is not in the class of Hopsicker but I think it would be worth a read.

free pdf here...

http://www.torontoforumoncuba.com/uploads/5/1/8/5/5185218/crossing_the_rubicon_-_the_decline_of_the_american_empire_at_the_end_of_the_age_of_oil.pdf

[Guest]

It was just a funky word choice. The definitions of typing and vocalising did not appear anywhere in my physics curriculum, so it was not neglect just irrelevant to the course, just as this is irrelevant to the argument at hand.

specific heat capacity of vaporisation isn't beyond my understanding, nor is conservation of momentum in photons, neither is fluid dynamics. All of which point to the extreme unlikeliness of the theory, Remaining open to an idea in which 10 decades worth of total earth power is transmitted in 10 seconds just seems like madness in the face of other evidence which is just lacking. Credulity is not an argument i often say but then neither is suspending it.

It is irrelevant. It's just the stratospheric levels of condescension tip me into playground mode. Dr Woods isn't talking about vaporisation ergo specific heat capacity of vaporisation is irrelevant as are conservation of momentum in photons and fluid dynamics. I understand these were just examples of the known physics you base your understanding of the world on, but it remains conceivable that there are other unknown elements of physics, which may have been studied extensively in the black world. If you remain open to this, then many other explanations become possible. This requires no more suspension of credulity than some of the astonishing geopolitical and social intricacies of the events highlighted in thplinth's quoted posts above.

[phart]

It is irrelevant. It's just the stratospheric levels of condescension tip me into playground mode. Dr Woods isn't talking about vaporisation ergo specific heat capacity of vaporisation is irrelevant as are conservation of momentum in photons and fluid dynamics. I understand these were just examples of the known physics you base your understanding of the world on, but it remains conceivable that there are other unknown elements of physics, which may have been studied extensively in the black world. If you remain open to this, then many other explanations become possible. This requires no more suspension of credulity than some of the astonishing geopolitical and social intricacies of the events highlighted in thplinth's quoted posts above.

she is talking about molecular disassociation , and formation of nano-dust. Which is an even more complete transformation than vaporisation , so using vaporisation gives us a lower level of energy and it is completely relevant. I'm going by what she says on her website, your interpetation is surplus to requirements. Conservation of momentum in photons is actually relevant as hell, after all what do you think directed energy beams are? You might as well say magic did it. If you're not going to calculate the implications of ones theory. If there is a hole in a window 1 mile away from where you are, and you show you're too far away to be able to throw the stone that broke it, what is more reasonable, you didn't fling the stone, or you actually have a secret way of throwing stones that only a shady non-defined group know about, and if only people would open their hearts they'd see this was a possibility? I can conceive of many things their conceivability has no bearing on their actuality..

In thplinths posts there is evidence that is lacking in your posts, hence the difference.

[Guest]

she is talking about molecular disassociation , and formation of nano-dust. Which is an even more complete transformation than vaporisation , so using vaporisation gives us a lower level of energy and it is completely relevant. I'm going by what she says on her website, your interpetation is surplus to requirements. Conservation of momentum in photons is actually relevant as hell, after all what do you think directed energy beams are? You might as well say magic did it. If you're not going to calculate the implications of ones theory. If there is a hole in a window 1 mile away from where you are, and you show you're too far away to be able to throw the stone that broke it, what is more reasonable, you didn't fling the stone, or you actually have a secret way of throwing stones that only a shady non-defined group know about, and if only people would open their hearts they'd see this was a possibility? I can conceive of many things their conceivability has no bearing on their actuality..

In thplinths posts there is evidence that is lacking in your posts, hence the difference.

There is countless evidence, since the 1940s, that highly advanced technology has been developed in secret and that said technology would have sounded like science fiction to the mainstream world (the Manhatten project and development of SR71 spring to mind but these are, in relative terms because we knew about them quickly, very mainstream, relatively non-compartmentalised and not deep black). To acknowledge that it is the case that the military industrial complex or some other group act and develop technology in secret, does not require any suspension of credulity. It is provable fact. I'm not saying, and neither is Dr Wood, that what happrned on 9/11 is absolutely proven beyond doubt to have involved an energy weapon. Just, thst it's a possibility. You choose, for the reasons you've outlined, and in an extraordinarily patronising manner, to dismiss this notion, while I do not. I can agree to disagree.

[phart]

There is countless evidence, since the 1940s, that highly advanced technology has been developed in secret and that said technology would have sounded like science fiction to the mainstream world (the Manhatten project and development of SR71 spring to mind but these are, in relative terms because we knew about them quickly, very mainstream, relatively non-compartmentalised and not deep black). To acknowledge that it is the case that the military industrial complex or some other group act and develop technology in secret, does not require any suspension of credulity. It is provable fact. I'm not saying, and neither is Dr Wood, that what happrned on 9/11 is absolutely proven beyond doubt to have involved an energy weapon. Just, thst it's a possibility. You choose, for the reasons you've outlined, and in an extraordinarily patronising manner, to dismiss this notion, while I do not. I can agree to disagree.

This is a straw-man, i made zero comments about mahatten project, SR71 or that there is black projects and their existence requires suspension of credulity, i'm stating that Judy Woods directed energy hypothesis falls on it's face for the reasons stated, just cause one weapon exists doesn't mean ALL weapons exist.

It is also possible an invisible dragon did it, what makes you claim the energy weapon over the invisible dragon? Both are possible,there must be some differentiating factor.

You seem very interested in the "manner " of words as opposed to the content, i'd suggest a switch from style to substance for primary concerns, it'll provide more insight.

[Kirk]

I havent read all of this but a question for Scotty abiut these peopke being taken off the planes and made to call family etc. Dont you think that knowing they were going to die then one of them would have probably told their family what was happening. Worst case senario they get shot earlier.

I do believe it was an inside job, and have my own reasons for that, but the airbase stuff seems really far fetched.

[Guest]

This is a straw-man, i made zero comments about mahatten project, SR71 or that there is black projects and their existence requires suspension of credulity, i'm stating that Judy Woods directed energy hypothesis falls on it's face for the reasons stated, just cause one weapon exists doesn't mean ALL weapons exist.

It is also possible an invisible dragon did it, what makes you claim the energy weapon over the invisible dragon? Both are possible,there must be some differentiating factor.

You seem very interested in the "manner " of words as opposed to the content, i'd suggest a switch from style to substance for primary concerns, it'll provide more insight.

Dr Wood is talking about 'breakthrough' technology i.e. unknown to mainstream science i.e. not necessarily confined by the boundsvof unders5anding of mainstream science. The only straw man argument in action here phart, is the one you keep making about current known physics vs unknown and it's clear your mind is closed to the latter. My starting point, as is Dr Woods, is being open to this idea. That's your failure in understanding, not mine.

Do you really want to go with your question about the energy weapon vs the invisible dragon. I'll spell the answer out for you phart. Both are possible. However, the reason I choose the former is because there is 'known' interest, funding and research (and therefore unquestionably black also) in energy weapons, SDI, HAARP. As far as I know there hasn't been any into invisible dragons. But, if you'd care to enlighten us, I'm all ears ( or should that be eyes).

[Guest]

This is a straw-man, i made zero comments about mahatten project, SR71 or that there is black projects and their existence requires suspension of credulity, i'm stating that Judy Woods directed energy hypothesis falls on it's face for the reasons stated, just cause one weapon exists doesn't mean ALL weapons exist.

It is also possible an invisible dragon did it, what makes you claim the energy weapon over the invisible dragon? Both are possible,there must be some differentiating factor.

You seem very interested in the "manner " of words as opposed to the content, i'd suggest a switch from style to substance for primary concerns, it'll provide more insight.

Dr Wood is talking about 'breakthrough' technology i.e. unknown to mainstream science i.e. not necessarily confined by the boundsvof unders5anding of mainstream science. The only straw man argument in action here phart, is the one you keep making about current known physics vs unknown and it's clear your mind is closed to the latter. My starting point, as is Dr Woods, is being open to this idea. That's your failure in understanding, not mine.

Do you really want to go with your question about the energy weapon vs the invisible dragon. I'll spell the answer out for you phart. Both are possible. However, the reason I choose the former is because there is 'known' interest, funding and research (and therefore unquestionably black also) in energy weapons, SDI, HAARP. As far as I know there hasn't been any into invisible dragons. But, if you'd care to enlighten us, I'm all ears ( or should that be eyes).

[Orraloon]

Dr Wood is talking about 'breakthrough' technology i.e. unknown to mainstream science i.e. not necessarily confined by the boundsvof unders5anding of mainstream science. The only straw man argument in action here phart, is the one you keep making about current known physics vs unknown and it's clear your mind is closed to the latter. My starting point, as is Dr Woods, is being open to this idea. That's your failure in understanding, not mine.

Do you really want to go with your question about the energy weapon vs the invisible dragon. I'll spell the answer out for you phart. Both are possible. However, the reason I choose the former is because there is 'known' interest, funding and research (and therefore unquestionably black also) in energy weapons, SDI, HAARP. As far as I know there hasn't been any into invisible dragons. But, if you'd care to enlighten us, I'm all ears ( or should that be eyes).

Are you saying that this secret research my have found ways to break the fundamental laws of physics?

[Guest]

Are you saying that this secret research my have found ways to break the fundamental laws of physics?

I'm saying that mainstream science has been corraled, coerced, (mis)lead to a place where monopolised and moneterised energy sources are able to predominate and continue. As shown earlier in the thread the CIA (for one) has far reaching influence in many mainstream social spheres, including the scientific community. Factor in the availability of mainstream funding and the 'direction' research is allowed to take, ego and empire building and you have a recipe for a lack of free thought. I don't have the time at the mo but I'll find some source material for this thinking (can't remember exactly where I've been reading just now). There is strong evidence demonstrating that alternative energy sources/ technology, that would be far harder to monopolise and generate income/create dependency from, have their patents tied up in the legal system in the States as part of a policy of suppresion. This should come as no surprise to anybody.

As for 'breaking' so called laws of physics, I don't know. There are challenges to the mainstream out there (do your own searching, it's not too hard to turn stuff up). Some of it is utter bunkum. Some not. How about if the 'laws' were arrived at through cul-de-sac thinking? There's been a lot of science forgotten/lost/stolen/suppressed since the beginning of the 20th century. Perhaps the laws don't reflect the whole picture? Perhaps there are errors, deliberate/accidental? There's a good exmple of this related to cold fusion. Have a look online, I'll see if I can find you the source. The CIA or similar had a 'gatekeeper' involved in the deliberate mishandling of this technology and experimental results. People were 'erased.' thplinth or phart may know what I'm referring to and offer further references/insights.

I have children and am keen for them not to end up without the ability for free thought. It seems to me that's central to what 9/11 and the manipulation of pur understanding of the world by the militart industrial complex ( for want of a better term) is about. 'Breakaway civilisation' is another term worth researching, if you have the inclination.

[Orraloon]

I'm saying that mainstream science has been corraled, coerced, (mis)lead to a place where monopolised and moneterised energy sources are able to predominate and continue. As shown earlier in the thread the CIA (for one) has far reaching influence in many mainstream social spheres, including the scientific community. Factor in the availability of mainstream funding and the 'direction' research is allowed to take, ego and empire building and you have a recipe for a lack of free thought. I don't have the time at the mo but I'll find some source material for this thinking (can't remember exactly where I've been reading just now). There is strong evidence demonstrating that alternative energy sources/ technology, that would be far harder to monopolise and generate income/create dependency from, have their patents tied up in the legal system in the States as part of a policy of suppresion. This should come as no surprise to anybody.

As for 'breaking' so called laws of physics, I don't know. There are challenges to the mainstream out there (do your own searching, it's not too hard to turn stuff up). Some of it is utter bunkum. Some not. How about if the 'laws' were arrived at through cul-de-sac thinking? There's been a lot of science forgotten/lost/stolen/suppressed since the beginning of the 20th century. Perhaps the laws don't reflect the whole picture? Perhaps there are errors, deliberate/accidental? There's a good exmple of this related to cold fusion. Have a look online, I'll see if I can find you the source. The CIA or similar had a 'gatekeeper' involved in the deliberate mishandling of this technology and experimental results. People were 'erased.' thplinth or phart may know what I'm referring to and offer further references/insights.

I have children and am keen for them not to end up without the ability for free thought. It seems to me that's central to what 9/11 and the manipulation of pur understanding of the world by the militart industrial complex ( for want of a better term) is about. 'Breakaway civilisation' is another term worth researching, if you have the inclination.

That's the only bit I needed, but thanks for the reply anyway.

[phart]

Dr Wood is talking about 'breakthrough' technology i.e. unknown to mainstream science i.e. not necessarily confined by the boundsvof unders5anding of mainstream science. The only straw man argument in action here phart, is the one you keep making about current known physics vs unknown and it's clear your mind is closed to the latter. My starting point, as is Dr Woods, is being open to this idea. That's your failure in understanding, not mine.

Do you really want to go with your question about the energy weapon vs the invisible dragon. I'll spell the answer out for you phart. Both are possible. However, the reason I choose the former is because there is 'known' interest, funding and research (and therefore unquestionably black also) in energy weapons, SDI, HAARP. As far as I know there hasn't been any into invisible dragons. But, if you'd care to enlighten us, I'm all ears ( or should that be eyes).

Yeah but it can't be HAARP can it? After all the power to molecularly disassociate metal into nano-dust cannot be stored in metal, or the metal it was stored in would molecularly dissociate. The existence of black-projects isn't proof of anything but they have black-projects, .

I'm just asking for evidence , I was open to the idea, hence why i did calculations and the mapped the implications of an energy weapon. Those implications pose clear problems for the hypothesis.

[Guest]

Yeah but it can't be HAARP can it? After all the power to molecularly disassociate metal into nano-dust cannot be stored in metal, or the metal it was stored in would molecularly dissociate. The existence of black-projects isn't proof of anything but they have black-projects, .

I'm just asking for evidence , I was open to the idea, hence why i did calculations and the mapped the implications of an energy weapon. Those implications pose clear problems for the hypothesis.

I don't know whether it's anything to do with HAARP, there's no information publicly available on its full purpose or capabilities. Most of those working within the project are probably only privvy to highly compartmentalised information. Who knows?

Perhaps the technology used can be tuned to affect specific materials. Perhaps it isn't made of metal. Weaponised lasers don't melt themselves when fired (I'm not saying it was a laser on 9/11, btw).

There is no definitive evidence to say precisely what happened. There is enough evidence, in my opinion, to suggest that whatever it was, it was pretty f*ck*ng strange and not solely due to conventional technology. That's as good as it gets until someone 'fesses up. And hell is likely to freeze over first.

[Scotty CTA]

I havent read all of this but a question for Scotty abiut these peopke being taken off the planes and made to call family etc. Dont you think that knowing they were going to die then one of them would have probably told their family what was happening. Worst case senario they get shot earlier.

I don't know that they knew that they were going to die.

They could have told the passengers "We have landed as a precaution due to a technical glitch."

THEN they could have told the ones removed from the planes (to make the calls) something else. (Drills, etc.)

(What if the handlers used some sort of short delay or recording so that only what they approved got through?)

I do believe it was an inside job, and have my own reasons for that, but the airbase stuff seems really far fetched.

That part would be easy.

[thplinth]

BLACK BOX COVER-UP

Rescue workers silenced after exposing 9-11 whitewash

By Greg Szymanski

A 9-11 rescue worker recently came forward to say he was told by FBI agents to “keep my mouth shut” about one of the “black boxes” a fellow firefighter helped locate at ground zero, contradicting the official story that none of the flight and cockpit data recorders were ever recovered in the wreckage of the World Trade Center (WTC) towers.

Honorary firefighter Mike Bellone claims he was approached by unknown bureau agents a short time after he and his partner, Nicholas DeMasi, a retired New York firefighter, found three of the four “black boxes” among the WTC rubble before January 2002.

The pair first claimed in an August 2003 book entitled Behind the Scene: Ground Zero to have found the data recorders.

DeMasi said the “black boxes” were found while he traversed “ground zero” in his all-terrain vehicle (ATV) with three federal agents.

FBI and New York fire officials have denied ever finding the voice and data recorders.

Now Bellone claims agents were adamant about keeping the discovery a secret.

“They confronted me and told me to not to say anything,” recalled Bellone, referring to one of three reddish-orange boxes with two white stripes he saw in the back of DeMasi’s ATV. “I said, ‘Give me a good reason.’ When they couldn’t, I told them I wouldn’t shut up about it.

“Why should I? I have nothing to hide and nothing to gain. It’s the truth, and Nick and I are sticking to our story as we always have.”

Bellone said he and DeMasi were not the only 9-11 rescue workers to see the “black boxes.” He said there were several other witnesses and said he knows they have been silenced by federal agents

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/black_box.html

[thplinth]

Reading phart and harry I agree with you both in some regards.

phart is right in that there is zero evidence for some sort of space based energy weapon etc etc blah blah. Sure there are some curiosities some smaller like the cars and some much larger like the nature of the collapse but ultimately there is no evidence worth a for it.

That said Harry I do agree that if they did have some technology the public were not aware of then using it in a covert event would be perfect.

Again this is why I hate this pointless masturbatory speculation where all the grounding in proper fact based investigative reporting is gone to be replaced with 100% speculative 0% evidence based theories... just floating in a world machine gunning passengers, mini-nukes, holographic planes or what the ever it happens to be this year.

[broono83]

BLACK BOX COVER-UP

Rescue workers silenced after exposing 9-11 whitewash

By Greg Szymanski

A 9-11 rescue worker recently came forward to say he was told by FBI agents to “keep my mouth shut” about one of the “black boxes” a fellow firefighter helped locate at ground zero, contradicting the official story that none of the flight and cockpit data recorders were ever recovered in the wreckage of the World Trade Center (WTC) towers.

Honorary firefighter Mike Bellone claims he was approached by unknown bureau agents a short time after he and his partner, Nicholas DeMasi, a retired New York firefighter, found three of the four “black boxes” among the WTC rubble before January 2002.

The pair first claimed in an August 2003 book entitled Behind the Scene: Ground Zero to have found the data recorders.

DeMasi said the “black boxes” were found while he traversed “ground zero” in his all-terrain vehicle (ATV) with three federal agents.

FBI and New York fire officials have denied ever finding the voice and data recorders.

Now Bellone claims agents were adamant about keeping the discovery a secret.

“They confronted me and told me to not to say anything,” recalled Bellone, referring to one of three reddish-orange boxes with two white stripes he saw in the back of DeMasi’s ATV. “I said, ‘Give me a good reason.’ When they couldn’t, I told them I wouldn’t shut up about it.

“Why should I? I have nothing to hide and nothing to gain. It’s the truth, and Nick and I are sticking to our story as we always have.”

Bellone said he and DeMasi were not the only 9-11 rescue workers to see the “black boxes.” He said there were several other witnesses and said he knows they have been silenced by federal agents

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/black_box.html

Surely the firefighter would have been disposed off to stop him blabbing if true?

Find all this hard to believe

[tartandon]

I don't know that they knew that they were going to die.

They could have told the passengers "We have landed as a precaution due to a technical glitch."

THEN they could have told the ones removed from the planes (to make the calls) something else. (Drills, etc.)

(What if the handlers used some sort of short delay or recording so that only what they approved got through?)

That part would be easy.

If there was an FBI/CIA/NSA/Secret Shadowy Lizard people (delete as appropriate) cover-up, I'm sure this would have been the first document released following the leaks by Edward Snowden.

Or do you believe that Snowden's leaks were a ploy to misdirect everybody away from the information about the false flag attacks on 9/11?

[Kirk]

I don't know that they knew that they were going to die.

They could have told the passengers "We have landed as a precaution due to a technical glitch."

THEN they could have told the ones removed from the planes (to make the calls) something else. (Drills, etc.)

(What if the handlers used some sort of short delay or recording so that only what they approved got through?)

That part would be easy.

But they would be panicd. andntold to call a loved one im sure rhey would explain the whole situation even at the risk of anything happening to them.

Airbase is a no for me im afraid.

[thplinth]

Your plane is mysteriously landed at a military base. You are disembarked and military people tell you it is a drill.

Some passengers are isolated and told they need to call your parents and lie to them that you are in "a hijack situation and in danger of your life".

By the way who would call their elderly parents (or anyone?) and fake their own kidnap even if some government goon told you to?

They are then corralled into 'gas chambers' and 'incinerated'. Hmmmm does this sound a bit Auschwitz?

And folk find this plausible... errrm bullshit.

[thplinth]

Surely the firefighter would have been disposed off to stop him blabbing if true?

Find all this hard to believe

Surely to you can look this up on google and work out if this guy is who he claims to be?

And if you did I imagine it would be a lot more convincing than if I 'told' you.

I am betting here but I say you find it hard to believe because you do not read into the subject?

[thplinth]

This was written in 2005...

http://www.counterpunch.org/2005/12/19/9-11-missing-black-boxes-in-world-trade-center-attacks-found-by-firefighters-analyzed-by-ntsb-concealed-by-fbi/

9/11: Missing Black Boxes in World Trade Center Attacks Found by Firefighters, Analyzed by NTSB, Concealed by FBI

by DAVE LINDORFF

One of the more puzzling mysteries of 9-11 is what ever happened to the flight recorders of the two planes that hit the World Trade Center towers. Now it appears that they may not be missing at all.

Counterpunch has learned that the FBI has them.

Flight recorders (commonly known as black boxes, though these days they are generally bright orange) are required on all passenger planes. There are always two-a flight data recorder that keeps track of a plane’s speed, altitude, course and maneuvers, and a cockpit voice recorder which keeps a continuous record of the last 30 minutes of conversation inside a plane’s cockpit. These devices are constructed to be extremely durable, and are installed in a plane’s tail section, where they are least likely suffer damaged on impact. They are designed to withstand up to 30 minutes of 1800-degree heat (more than they would have faced in the twin towers crashes), and to survive a crash at full speed into the ground.

All four of the devices were recovered from the two planes that hit the Pentagon and that crashed in rural Pennsylvania. In the case of American Airlines Flight 77, which hit the Pentagon, the FBI reports that the flight data recorder survived and had recoverable information, but the voice recorder was allegedly too damaged to provide any record. In the case of United Airlines Flight 93, which hit the ground at 500 mph in Pennsylvania, the situation was reversed: the voice recorder survived but the flight data box was allegedly damaged beyond recovery.

But the FBI states, and also reported to the 9-11 Commission, that none of the recording devices from the two planes that hit the World Trade Center were ever recovered.

There has always been some skepticism about this assertion, particularly as two N.Y. City firefighters, Mike Bellone and Nicholas De Masi, claimed in 2004 that they had found three of the four boxes, and that Federal agents took them and told the two men not to mention having found them. (The FBI denies the whole story.) Moreover, these devices are almost always located after crashes, even if not in useable condition (and the cleanup of the World Trade Center was meticulous, with even tiny bone fragments and bits of human tissue being discovered so that almost all the victims were ultimately identified). As Ted Lopatkiewicz, director of public affairs at the National Transportation Safety Agency which has the job of analyzing the boxes’ data, says, "It’s very unusual not to find a recorder after a crash, although it’s also very unusual to have jets flying into buildings."

Now there is stronger evidence that something is amiss than simply the alleged non-recovery of all four of those boxes. A source at the National Transportation Safety Board, the agency that has the task of deciphering the date from the black boxes retrieved from crash sites-including those that are being handled as crimes and fall under the jurisdiction of the FBI-says the boxes were in fact recovered and were analyzed by the NTSB.

"Off the record, we had the boxes," the source says. "You’d have to get the official word from the FBI as to where they are, but we worked on them here."

The official word from the NTSB is that the WTC crash site black boxes never turned up. "No recorders were recovered from the World Trade Center," says the NTSB’s Lopatkiewicz. "At least none were delivered to us by the FBI." He adds that the agency has "always had a good relationship’ with the FBI and that in all prior crime-related crashes or flight incidents, they have brought the boxes to the NTSB for analysis.

For its part, the FBI is still denying everything, though with curious bit of linguistic wiggle room. "To the best of my knowledge, the flight recording devices from the World Trade Center crashes were never recovered. At least we never had them," says FBI spokesman Stephen Kodak.

What the apparent existence of the black boxes in government hands means is unclear.

If the information in those boxes is recoverable, or if, as is likely, it has been recovered already, it could give crucial evidence

regarding the skill of the hijacker/pilots, perhaps of their strategy, of whether they were getting outside help in guiding them to their targets, of how fast they were flying and a host of other things.

Why would the main intelligence and law enforcement arm of the U.S. government want to hide from the public not just the available information about the two hijacked flights that provided the motivation and justification for the nation’s "War on Terror" and for its two wars against Afghanistan and Iraq, but even the fact that it has the devices which could contain that information? Conspiracy theories abound, with some claiming the planes were actually pilotless military aircraft, or that they had little or nothing to do with the building collapses. The easiest way to quash such rumors and such fevered thinking would be openness.

Instead we have the opposite: a dark secrecy that invites many questions regarding the potentially embarrassing or perhaps even sinister information that might be on those tapes.

[phart]

Reading phart and harry I agree with you both in some regards.

phart is right in that there is zero evidence for some sort of space based energy weapon etc etc blah blah. Sure there are some curiosities some smaller like the cars and some much larger like the nature of the collapse but ultimately there is no evidence worth a for it.

That said Harry I do agree that if they did have some technology the public were not aware of then using it in a covert event would be perfect.

Again this is why I hate this pointless masturbatory speculation where all the grounding in proper fact based investigative reporting is gone to be replaced with 100% speculative 0% evidence based theories... just floating in a world machine gunning passengers, mini-nukes, holographic planes or what the ever it happens to be this year.

It looks like they used soem sort of energy weapon in Iraq, but seriously the energy needed to basically turn the two buildings into their component atoms is astonishingly high.

[Guest]

It looks like they used soem sort of energy weapon in Iraq, but seriously the energy needed to basically turn the two buildings into their component atoms is astonishingly high.

Hugely controversial area of physics but an interesting insight into the machinations of the scientific community and one possible source of astonishing amounts of energy. This fellow was murdered in 2004. Conspiracy?

I've no idea if cold fusion exists but it's an extraordinarily murky area.

[Guest]

I'd forgotten about this since I saw it a couple of years ago. About 3 mins in Dr Wood highlighting the (apparent) peer pressure involved in the suppression of cold fusion research in 1989.