Why Do We Always Throw It Away?

[Dogbiscuit]

I read a comment on here yesterday that said Scotland are not good enough, and when they are good enough they let us down. I doubt many, if anyone could disagree with that. But it begs the question; who are 'they'? It's not the same players every time, or the same manager. With each new generation the squad refreshes. Even the fans change. So who are we really frustrated at? The only explanation I can find for Scotland throwing it away time and time again, campaign after campaign, year after year being the glorious failures, is that this is a problem which transcends football. It's in us all. It's who we are as a nation. It's our collective mentality. But why? Maybe it comes from our unusual status as a country. We're governed by another. Some of you might look at my profile picture and say 'just another nationalist crying over spilt milk' or 'what's politics got to do with football?'. But I've pondered over this for years. We're the snotty nosed wee brother of England and I think we have a collective subconscious low self esteem with this at the root. I truely believed if Scotland had won independence last year we would have went on to qualify because we would have shaken that monkey off our back. Well we'll never know now. But this is not a political rant, just my observations and perspective as a Scotland fan over the years. It's not the big teams that knock us out. It's always a pish poor performance against a lower ranked team that are there for the taking which makes us look laughable in the end. It's frustrating. Really, really frustrating.

[deso1]

Well im very political (and have never considered myself a 'nationalist', even though I fully believe in an independent Scotland, in charge of its own affairs....I definitely think its our national chip on our shoulder..........on top of the fact we are run by the English, our media constantly drills the English success into us, and if we are close to success its a surprise/ we are punching above our weight, and it has to end sometime(probably in eastern Europe again) etc.

Sometimes its not worth being Scottish...............Maybe we should just bow our heads and all be British?

[stactuso85]

"Our" football media constantly putting our football down and telling us we are a small nation with poor players who will never produce anything to compete on the world stage and so we should permanently lower our expectations. That might have something to do with it.

I wonder if the media in Uruguay or Rep. Ireland are always like this?

[deso1]

Aye the media in Uruguay and rep Ireland always put us down as well!!!!!!!!!!!!

[stactuso85]

deso1

[the_burger]

We aren't producing the players. Maybe in the next few years we'll see some talent coming through the ranks with the grassroots work that has been underway for a few years now. We just have to be patient. The current team are decent. We are usually in the mix for a playoff place, and that is our level. Qualification would take exceptional performances from our current squad.

Feeling a biit shit after last nights performance, but I'd be far more worried if we weren't taking steps to change things up.

From a political perspective, I think our collective psychology would change but there's no way to prove that

[Haggis_trap]

Too many players not playing week in / week out for their club team.

Even those at Celtic are hardly challenged every week......

[ankles]

Well im very political (and have never considered myself a 'nationalist', even though I fully believe in an independent Scotland, in charge of its own affairs....I definitely think its our national chip on our shoulder..........on top of the fact we are run by the English, our media constantly drills the English success into us, and if we are close to success its a surprise/ we are punching above our weight, and it has to end sometime(probably in eastern Europe again) etc.

Sometimes its not worth being Scottish...............Maybe we should just bow our heads and all be British?

Christ , we lost one game of fitba

[Caledonian Craig]

To me it is clearly a Scottish mentality. It is the psyche or our mental make-up. We can raise ourselves and our levels for big games when we are underdogs and pull off shock results. The downside is that we cannot mentally carry the weight of expectation as favourites. We just wilt when we are expected to deliver against lesser opponents.

Every nation has traits. As I said earlier in the week the Germans psyche is one that ultimately comes through when the chips are down hence why I was super-confident they would beat Poland.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Caledonian Craig

[thewolf_1980]

We are simply not good enough. We have had a few decent away results but last night the performance was passive, negative bullshit. Dreadful team selection, no impact from substitutes and an all too familiar lack of creativity when behind.

In all of my 25 years that I can recall watching Scotland, I'm struggling to think of a more impotent, pathetic performance.

[JECK]

Anyone else trying to hide from all media today?Am watching fking rowing on the Beeb with John inverdale at the moment on mute whilst blaring my iPod. Trying to keep this up till Monday night at the least.

[scotlad]

We are simply not good enough. We have had a few decent away results but last night the performance was passive, negative bullshit. Dreadful team selection, no impact from substitutes and an all too familiar lack of creativity when behind.

In all of my 25 years that I can recall watching Scotland, I'm struggling to think of a more impotent, pathetic performance.

Georgia away in 2007? Mibee my memory's playing tricks but that was an even worse performance than last night.

[Alan]

It's got nothing to do with politics. It didn't impact us when we were good in 60's and 70's. We struggle now as we have held on to those successes' while other nations have changed and others such as African countries have grown and developed.

Our way of thinking about football is a problem. Nothing to do with what politician is in charge. Go to any youth game. Any SPFL game and it's still watched by bangers. People who still believe a hard tackle and putting in a shift is better than possession, intelligence and skill. That's the national psyche that needs changed. I've played football against numerous nationalities (at very low levels) but the touch, thinking and athleticism really puts us to shame.

Look at the supporters out there. Getting pushed, celebrating in being drunk and out of shape. It's not much of an example in conditioning to others.

Also we need to keep this in perspective. It's the classic "Group of Death". We've had one bad game. Got decent results in others and Ireland and Poland struggled against Georgia too.

[Ally Bongo]

It's got nothing to do with politics. It didn't impact us when we were good in 60's and 70's.

Nostalgia clouds the judgement - we clearly werent as good as we like to think we were

We never qualified for a world cup in the 60s and never made it past the knock out rounds in 74 or 78 when it was never easier

Agree with most of the rest of your post however you could argue that partially the reasons for all your examples is a lack of national self confidence

[Daz1982]

I read a comment on here yesterday that said Scotland are not good enough, and when they are good enough they let us down. I doubt many, if anyone could disagree with that. But it begs the question; who are 'they'? It's not the same players every time, or the same manager. With each new generation the squad refreshes. Even the fans change. So who are we really frustrated at? The only explanation I can find for Scotland throwing it away time and time again, campaign after campaign, year after year being the glorious failures, is that this is a problem which transcends football. It's in us all. It's who we are as a nation. It's our collective mentality. But why? Maybe it comes from our unusual status as a country. We're governed by another. Some of you might look at my profile picture and say 'just another nationalist crying over spilt milk' or 'what's politics got to do with football?'. But I've pondered over this for years. We're the snotty nosed wee brother of England and I think we have a collective subconscious low self esteem with this at the root. I truely believed if Scotland had won independence last year we would have went on to qualify because we would have shaken that monkey off our back. Well we'll never know now. But this is not a political rant, just my observations and perspective as a Scotland fan over the years. It's not the big teams that knock us out. It's always a pish poor performance against a lower ranked team that are there for the taking which makes us look laughable in the end. It's frustrating. Really, really frustrating.

Had this exact conversation in the bar last night and have had it many times previously. As a 'nation' who Is happy to be governed and dictated to by another, it is not really surprising that we tend to accept second best.

It's deep rooted in our psyche and will not change until we are independent.

A country like Uruguay with a smaller population than us strives to achieve the absolute best in its national sport (football) whereas we are happy to 'just take part' or 'just compete.' I was over in Uruguay during the 2011 Copa America, not once did I hear them put down their chances or big up their rivals, they knocked Argentina (hosts) out their own tournament and fully expected to!

We on the other hand always seem to be content with making up the numbers, trying our best or simply just having a good day out. We have no real ambition to actually achieve real success.

For me, if your population is anything above 2-3 million and you focus on your national sport then you should strive to achieve the ultimate goal in that particular sport, that would be winning the FIFA World Cup in our case.

The New Zealand rugby union team is another good example of how huge success can be achieved.

[Briany]

We are simply not good enough. We have had a few decent away results but last night the performance was passive, negative bullshit. Dreadful team selection, no impact from substitutes and an all too familiar lack of creativity when behind.

In all of my 25 years that I can recall watching Scotland, I'm struggling to think of a more impotent, pathetic performance.

Both Ireland and Scotland are pretty average right now. Scotland have shown some class, but Ireland have shown some bottle. Who can be slightly less average than the other? Time will tell.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Briany

[King Of Paisley]

Had this exact conversation in the bar last night and have had it many times previously. As a 'nation' who Is happy to be governed and dictated to by another, it is not really surprising that we tend to accept second best.

It's deep rooted in our psyche and will not change until we are independent.

A country like Uruguay with a smaller population than us strives to achieve the absolute best in its national sport (football) whereas we are happy to 'just take part' or 'just compete.' I was over in Uruguay during the 2011 Copa America, not once did I hear them put down their chances or big up their rivals, they knocked Argentina (hosts) out their own tournament and fully expected to!

We on the other hand always seem to be content with making up the numbers, trying our best or simply just having a good day out. We have no real ambition to actually achieve real success.

For me, if your population is anything above 2-3 million and you focus on your national sport then you should strive to achieve the ultimate goal in that particular sport, that would be winning the FIFA World Cup in our case.

The New Zealand rugby union team is another good example of how huge success can be achieved.

Denmark in Euro 92 is another. And a country of similar size to Scotland.

[islayscot]

I read a comment on here yesterday that said Scotland are not good enough, and when they are good enough they let us down. I doubt many, if anyone could disagree with that. But it begs the question; who are 'they'? It's not the same players every time, or the same manager. With each new generation the squad refreshes. Even the fans change. So who are we really frustrated at? The only explanation I can find for Scotland throwing it away time and time again, campaign after campaign, year after year being the glorious failures, is that this is a problem which transcends football. It's in us all. It's who we are as a nation. It's our collective mentality. But why? Maybe it comes from our unusual status as a country. We're governed by another. Some of you might look at my profile picture and say 'just another nationalist crying over spilt milk' or 'what's politics got to do with football?'. But I've pondered over this for years. We're the snotty nosed wee brother of England and I think we have a collective subconscious low self esteem with this at the root. I truely believed if Scotland had won independence last year we would have went on to qualify because we would have shaken that monkey off our back. Well we'll never know now. But this is not a political rant, just my observations and perspective as a Scotland fan over the years. It's not the big teams that knock us out. It's always a pish poor performance against a lower ranked team that are there for the taking which makes us look laughable in the end. It's frustrating. Really, really frustrating.

Agree with much of this

Edited September 5, 2015 by islayscot

[Doric]

I read a comment on here yesterday that said Scotland are not good enough, and when they are good enough they let us down. I doubt many, if anyone could disagree with that. But it begs the question; who are 'they'? It's not the same players every time, or the same manager. With each new generation the squad refreshes. Even the fans change. So who are we really frustrated at? The only explanation I can find for Scotland throwing it away time and time again, campaign after campaign, year after year being the glorious failures, is that this is a problem which transcends football. It's in us all. It's who we are as a nation. It's our collective mentality. But why? Maybe it comes from our unusual status as a country. We're governed by another. Some of you might look at my profile picture and say 'just another nationalist crying over spilt milk' or 'what's politics got to do with football?'. But I've pondered over this for years. We're the snotty nosed wee brother of England and I think we have a collective subconscious low self esteem with this at the root. I truely believed if Scotland had won independence last year we would have went on to qualify because we would have shaken that monkey off our back. Well we'll never know now. But this is not a political rant, just my observations and perspective as a Scotland fan over the years. It's not the big teams that knock us out. It's always a pish poor performance against a lower ranked team that are there for the taking which makes us look laughable in the end. It's frustrating. Really, really frustrating.

Got to agree with you. Good post

[Auchinyell Sox Change]

I read a comment on here yesterday that said Scotland are not good enough, and when they are good enough they let us down. I doubt many, if anyone could disagree with that. But it begs the question; who are 'they'? It's not the same players every time, or the same manager. With each new generation the squad refreshes. Even the fans change. So who are we really frustrated at? The only explanation I can find for Scotland throwing it away time and time again, campaign after campaign, year after year being the glorious failures, is that this is a problem which transcends football. It's in us all. It's who we are as a nation. It's our collective mentality. But why? Maybe it comes from our unusual status as a country. We're governed by another. Some of you might look at my profile picture and say 'just another nationalist crying over spilt milk' or 'what's politics got to do with football?'. But I've pondered over this for years. We're the snotty nosed wee brother of England and I think we have a collective subconscious low self esteem with this at the root. I truely believed if Scotland had won independence last year we would have went on to qualify because we would have shaken that monkey off our back. Well we'll never know now. But this is not a political rant, just my observations and perspective as a Scotland fan over the years. It's not the big teams that knock us out. It's always a pish poor performance against a lower ranked team that are there for the taking which makes us look laughable in the end. It's frustrating. Really, really frustrating.

been on this board since 2003 , and this is the biggest load of p1sh i have read

[wanday]

I think there's a bit of truth to it. But we have failed at critical times for all sorts of reasons. For a time the press thought they picked the team. I reckon we failed in Germany because Ormond got bullied by the press over wee Jimmy Johnstone's antic but these players were great, knew how good they were, even after a bevy. Our skill levels have decreased since then but the level of support increased hugely.

That's put even more pressure on players none of whom who could be described as world class. We have an abundance of average players but we have faced difficult groups against teams who always seem to have a star or two and can change a game. Our inability to produce an impact player like that is hurting

We have no idea how to dominate a team, decide we're just going to win and do it. Our club.teams are being eliminated from Europe from teams from countries that we would have blown away not so long ago.

We do seem to craap it at very important times. Incredibly, I think players went into yesterdays games believing they are better than they are - enough said before they were sure we were going to win. So, that's hard to square with our admitted lack of talent. Were we too arrogant? I think we were.

[Third Lanark]

I would have a scorned a suggestion such as this not too long ago, but I really think it's time to bring in a top sports psychologist. More important maybe than a manager.

[gusmac]

A goalscoring forward would be handy. We simply struggle to score goals. In the last 15 years I can only think of faddy and miller hitting double figures and mcoist before them. Has maloney hit double digits?

[Bzzzz]

For some reason people see Fletcher as first choice striker... 4 goals in 22 games is quite pathetic.

[Auchinyell Sox Change]

I would have a scorned a suggestion such as this not too long ago, but I really think it's time to bring in a top sports psychologist. More important maybe than a manager.

Alex salmond and Tommy Sheridan ?