Major Personnel Changes.

[Shaun]

For me, its time for major player changes, get some of youngsters blooded before World Cup qualifiers begin next year.

For me, its time for Phil Bardsley, Steven Whittaker, Darren Fletcher and Steven Fletcher to call it quits.

In goal we have a choice of Marshall and Gordon but Allan McGregor needs to get called up more often than has been the case recently.

DEFENCE: Andy Robertson; Grant Hanley; Russell Martin and Alan Hutton should be our backline, I say Hutton because I can't think of a better right back that could do better than him. We have also got Graeme Shinnie, Christophe Berra, Mark Reynolds as back up if any of the back 4 get injured/suspended.

MIDFIELD: Time for Ross McCormack, Charlie Adam, Ryan Gauld, Stuart Armstrong, Ryan Christie and Gary Mackay-Steven to step up.

STRIKERS: Jordan Rhodes and Leigh Griffiths need more game time in matches plus younger strikers too because Steven Fletcher has had plenty chances to convince Tartan Army that he is good enough but fails every damn time.

Thoughts on who should go or come in (only player wise please!)

[Guest allyc]

Phil Bardsey has been awful for us this campaign.

[Jute]

Steven Fletcher was excellent last night.

[macy37]

The Leeds Centre Half us an option but defence, as weak as it is, is settled in the centre. Gtf with both full backs though.

[norsefox]

Hutton is an absolute bomb scare and the epitome of what we lack as a footballing nation.

Yes he gives it his all, but have you ever once thought that he was in control of the ball? Did he not try another one his courageous scissor challenges last night?

He's a huge weakness at right back. Get Hearts' Paterson in.

[JECK]

Personally think brown, Hutton and d fletcher should call it a day. Writings been on the wall for a while.

[spuddy]

Clear out has to happen further up, the SFA need to go first.

[Hendricks]

Darren Fletcher and Scott Brown are the glaringly obvious retirees. They are not going to be around for the 2018 WC in the unlikely event we make it. We should be building a side with that in mind.

We should also not be shoehorning players in. Robertson should be getting a run at left back as one example. Paterson should get some game time at right back as we all know what Hutton and Whittaker can bring to the table. Also Gauld should be introduced to the squad and the likes of Ritchie, Rhodes, Russell and GMS given some further opportunities.

[er yir macaroon]

If we don't have much ability then we should go for pace. It was embarrassing that Ritchie was miles ahead of the full back in the first half but had to check back because he couldn't advance 10 yards with a 20 yard start.

[adamntg]

Steven Fletcher was excellent last night.

He certainly was.

Forrest was also good and Ritchie impressed me more than before, despite a couple of slack passes.

[John_B81]

Forrest and S Fletcher were our best players, didn't think I'd say that!

D Fletcher and Whittaker were abysmal.

[bonzo]

Forrest and S Fletcher were our best players, didn't think I'd say that!

D Fletcher and Whittaker were abysmal.

have to agree Also think naisy is getting on abit tae

[TA Torr]

DF Gordon Greer 14 December 1980 (age 34) 8 0 England Brighton & Hove Albion
GK Allan McGregor 31 January 1982 (age 33) 33 0 England Hull City
GK Craig Gordon 31 December 1982 (age 32) 43 0 Scotland Celtic
MF Shaun Maloney 24 January 1983 (age 32) 44 6 England Hull City
MF Darren Fletcher 1 February 1984 (age 31) 69 5 England West Bromwich Albion
DF Steven Whittaker 16 June 1984 (age 31) 30 0 England Norwich City
DF Alan Hutton 30 November 1984 (age 30) 48 0 England Aston Villa
DF Christophe Berra 31 January 1985 (age 30) 30 3 England Ipswich Town

For me all of them shouldn't be considered for the next campaign as regulars. Maybe only in an injury crisis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland_national_football_team

[g@un]

We weren't that bad. I'm not keen on Whittaker at left back, I think Robertson and Shinnie are the future for that position. Forrest impressed me, he had a very good fullback worried every time he got the ball. Steven Fletcher and Ritchie were good. Both goals outstanding! Take Lewandowski out of the lineup last night and we win, simple as.

As said previously, the Georgia game screwed us up.

Really hope WGS stays on, we need consistency and stability. I'm sure there will be a review of the campaign, but lets not get carried away with making scapegoats. Best thing at the minute is to watch the u21s closely and assess those that will add to the current group for the next campaign. Throw in the likes of Jack, Rhodes, Cairney, Wilson (still think he'll make the grade), Armstrong, Allan, etc and you do have talent there.

[Caledonian Craig]

DF Gordon Greer 14 December 1980 (age 34) 8 0 England Brighton & Hove Albion

GK Allan McGregor 31 January 1982 (age 33) 33 0 England Hull City

GK Craig Gordon 31 December 1982 (age 32) 43 0 Scotland Celtic

MF Shaun Maloney 24 January 1983 (age 32) 44 6 England Hull City

MF Darren Fletcher 1 February 1984 (age 31) 69 5 England West Bromwich Albion

DF Steven Whittaker 16 June 1984 (age 31) 30 0 England Norwich City

DF Alan Hutton 30 November 1984 (age 30) 48 0 England Aston Villa

DF Christophe Berra 31 January 1985 (age 30) 30 3 England Ipswich Town

For me all of them shouldn't be considered for the next campaign as regulars. Maybe only in an injury crisis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland_national_football_team

Totally disagree about the keepers. They can usually keep going without any discernible dips in form until their late 30s. They still have a campaign or two at least left in them.

[g@un]

McGregor and Gordon should not be discarded, they are both good keepers. Scott Bain could come in and get some experience . Elsewhere, what are our options? Fulton is a prospect but too young to judge properly. Archer at Millwall is starting to play regularly and looks decent.

[norsefox]

Totally disagree about the keepers. They can usually keep going without any discernible dips in form until their late 30s. They still have a campaign or two at least left in them.

Buffon is 38 in January. Still in goal for Italy and Juventus.

Craig Gordon still has at least the next campaign to go through. I'd welcome him getting back in goal.

Big shake up on Sunday please. Rhodes, Griffith, Russell, Shinnie and Robertson.

[LewisEDI]

Also think naisy is getting on abit tae

was poor last night but still one of out best players, we need a creative 10, hopefully gauld can step up dont see much else in the pipeline, maybe christie but wouldnt class him as a 10 just now.

Edited October 9, 2015 by LewisEDI

[jock strap]

We do need changes but still need experience.

For that reason, Broony has to stay IMO.

[wee-toon-red]

Change as many as we can get away with. This group of players aren't exactly qualifying for anything so we're not going to be any worse off.

From last night's starting XI I'd keep Marshall, Martin, Hanley, Forrest, Ritchie and S Fletcher about the squad, if not necessarily the team. The rest should all be phased out and replaced with younger players. I'd rather see a young team missing out on qualification but gaining experience than the same old haddies plodding on.

As discussed on Off the Ball last night, players like Whittaker, Hutton, Brown and Maloney might be earnest triers but their abilities are limited. Lets get some youngsters in and see if gaining experience can take them to a higher level - we're not exactly aimining to win the championships but even a playoff would be progress.

[chris182]

Hutton is an absolute bomb scare and the epitome of what we lack as a footballing nation.

Yes he gives it his all, but have you ever once thought that he was in control of the ball? Did he not try another one his courageous scissor challenges last night?

He's a huge weakness at right back. Get Hearts' Paterson in.

Anyone but Hutton Edited October 9, 2015 by chris182

[runningtings]

Agreed with everything on this thread. We can't do any worse by playing the next generation from now on.

[andyD]

We can do worse than playing the next gen, that's what Vogts did. You need a steady transition, not just throw the kids in. We should bring people into the squad and let them get used to it, not just throw a bunch of them in from the start and hope it works out.

Keepers:

Marshall, Gordon, McGregor are all still fine. No need to change anything there.

Defense:

Hutton and Whittaker are probably nearing their ends. Robertson and Forsyth cover left back just fine. Right backs' more of a problem, Patterson, or Liam Palmer(?) probably need a chance to show if they can handle it. We're still struggling for backup in the middle, but Martin and Hanley are the 1st choice still. I thought Hanley especially had a really good game last night.

Midfield:

D Flether is probably done now, he looked lost for most of last nights match and would be 34 come the world cup. Brown still has legs, as does McArthur, Morrison and Mulgrew. But swap Fletch out and include someone like Shinnie or Jack in every squad. People who will be the likely successor of these players.

Forrest, Ritchie and Anya can all contribute for a while yet. Maloney's maybe the only one who's done now. Bannan's playing well on the left for his new club, so he's got the be in the thinking. I don't think we need sweeping changes in midfield at all tho.

Forwards:

Fletcher played very well last night, there's not really anything to debate about that. He's a good target man, and is only 28, so has at least 1 more campaign in him. the problem is.. Fletcher and Naismith. For me it doesn't really work. We don't look threatening with the two of them up. I don't see Naismith doing a massive amount of defensive work, he chases and pressures defenders a bit, but that's what any forward would do. I think we'd be better served by having a more clinical out and out striker along side Fletcher. So Rhodes or Griffiths.

So overall I don't think I agree with "major personnel changes" at all. There's now reason to throw away good players we have just because they're 28. We need to make sure we give young, deserving players an opportunity and some experience, but outside of the fullbacks and to an extent defensive mid, I don't think we need to be throwing players out of the squad. Let's not kneejerk. Adapt and develop, that's the way we'll get better.

[ProudScot]

We can do worse than playing the next gen, that's what Vogts did. You need a steady transition, not just throw the kids in. We should bring people into the squad and let them get used to it, not just throw a bunch of them in from the start and hope it works out.

Keepers:

Marshall, Gordon, McGregor are all still fine. No need to change anything there.

Defense:

Hutton and Whittaker are probably nearing their ends. Robertson and Forsyth cover left back just fine. Right backs' more of a problem, Patterson, or Liam Palmer(?) probably need a chance to show if they can handle it. We're still struggling for backup in the middle, but Martin and Hanley are the 1st choice still. I thought Hanley especially had a really good game last night.

Midfield:

D Flether is probably done now, he looked lost for most of last nights match and would be 34 come the world cup. Brown still has legs, as does McArthur, Morrison and Mulgrew. But swap Fletch out and include someone like Shinnie or Jack in every squad. People who will be the likely successor of these players.

Forrest, Ritchie and Anya can all contribute for a while yet. Maloney's maybe the only one who's done now. Bannan's playing well on the left for his new club, so he's got the be in the thinking. I don't think we need sweeping changes in midfield at all tho.

Forwards:

Fletcher played very well last night, there's not really anything to debate about that. He's a good target man, and is only 28, so has at least 1 more campaign in him. the problem is.. Fletcher and Naismith. For me it doesn't really work. We don't look threatening with the two of them up. I don't see Naismith doing a massive amount of defensive work, he chases and pressures defenders a bit, but that's what any forward would do. I think we'd be better served by having a more clinical out and out striker along side Fletcher. So Rhodes or Griffiths.

So overall I don't think I agree with "major personnel changes" at all. There's now reason to throw away good players we have just because they're 28. We need to make sure we give young, deserving players an opportunity and some experience, but outside of the fullbacks and to an extent defensive mid, I don't think we need to be throwing players out of the squad. Let's not kneejerk. Adapt and develop, that's the way we'll get better.

Graeme Shinnie will be 25 by the time the next campaign starts - Do we count that as young!?

Your post sums up the problem for me - We never transition we just slowly creak from campaign to campaign, steadily getting worse.

Need new blood and playing actual young players for a change

[wee-toon-red]

So overall I don't think I agree with "major personnel changes" at all. There's now reason to throw away good players we have just because they're 28. We need to make sure we give young, deserving players an opportunity and some experience, but outside of the fullbacks and to an extent defensive mid, I don't think we need to be throwing players out of the squad. Let's not kneejerk. Adapt and develop, that's the way we'll get better.

We're not going to be "throwing away" any "good" players. We'd be saying thanks for your efforts to a group of guys who, despite playing together for a good few years now and trying their best, just aren't good enough, proven time after time.

Keep a spine in place in the team or squad - keeper, Martin and Hanley (no immediate successors in defence anyway), McArthur, Naismith, Morrison and S Fletcher. Then get the young guys who haven't been infected with the "draw away from home is always good" malaise in and let them learn from the guys who have been in a few squads and, more importantly, from the experiences they'll get from actually playing.

Being in the squad isn't much use in learning how to play against the good teams, you've got to get out and do it. There's zero chance of qualifying for 2018 with the current squad anyway so keep the ones who have time on their side, or who we don't have any real replacements for, and let Armstrong, Jack, Paterson, Robertson, Shinnie and whoever else is out there come in and get on with it for a campaign and they'll either be in a good place for a crack at 2020 or have proved that they're no use either, in which case we move on to the next batch or give up completely.