Is Scotland's Main Problem Pyschological?

[Tartacus]

Losing in Georgia, settling for a draw in Ireland, failing to go on and score again v Germany away when we looked like we could, the predictable last gasp goal conceded v Poland, Players scuffing shots wide that they would smack into the net at club level, etc,. Are we too polite? Are we mentally deficient?

[King Of Paisley]

I think a lot of this stems back to the Levein era when he was coming out with shite like a 0-0 draw in Lithuania being a good result as far as he was concerned. It was drummed into players that it was better not to lose in certain situations than trying to go for a win. And for as much as Strachan has tried to drum that mentality out of the squad, I wonder if that kind of stuff is still lingering in the minds of the players.

And I think we are guilty of over analysing the oppositions strengths rather than looking at our own. Dublin was a classic example of that, when we were more concerned by Irelands hoofball style of play rather than perhaps looking at the likes of Anya starting that game and really stretching Ireland, which was clearly evident in the second half of that game.

If you want to qualify for tournaments then you have to be more ruthless, particularly away from home. For the next campaign, we need to go to places like Lithuania and Slovakia and believe we can take maximum points from such fixtures.

[Caledonian Craig]

I think a lot of this stems back to the Levein era when he was coming out with shite like a 0-0 draw in Lithuania being a good result as far as he was concerned. It was drummed into players that it was better not to lose in certain situations than trying to go for a win. And for as much as Strachan has tried to drum that mentality out of the squad, I wonder if that kind of stuff is still lingering in the minds of the players.

And I think we are guilty of over analysing the oppositions strengths rather than looking at our own. Dublin was a classic example of that, when we were more concerned by Irelands hoofball style of play rather than perhaps looking at the likes of Anya starting that game and really stretching Ireland, which was clearly evident in the second half of that game.

If you want to qualify for tournaments then you have to be more ruthless, particularly away from home. For the next campaign, we need to go to places like Lithuania and Slovakia and believe we can take maximum points from such fixtures.

No I have to say this runs much deeper back in time. Look at our World Cup exits - all caused by cocking up against the minnows of the group. This mental deficiency is engrained in the Scottish psyche and was even there when we qualified for major tournaments.

[King Of Paisley]

CC - I was more referring to this current crop of players, many of whom are survivors of the Levein fiasco. But, yeah in terms of exits from actual tournaments, I presume you are referring to not being ruthless enough against Zaire in '74 and the two goals that we lost against New Zealand in 1982, both of which saw us being papped out on goal difference.

[Caledonian Craig]

CC - I was more referring to this current crop of players, many of whom are survivors of the Levein fiasco. But, yeah in terms of exits from actual tournaments, I presume you are referring to not being ruthless enough against Zaire in '74 and the two goals that we lost against New Zealand in 1982, both of which saw us being papped out on goal difference.

Yes in runs throughout our history. Lets not forget drawing with Iran and losing to Costa Rica as well.

[King Of Paisley]

The latter one - oh dear God I was trying to forget all about that game!

[Caledonian Craig]

The latter one - oh dear God I was trying to forget all about that game!

Well there you have it though. It is a pyschological issue that runs a long way back and tells me it is engrained in the Scottish psyche whatever the generation.

As for the squad today it has to be understood that mentally when qualification looked a real possibility perhaps the players (all of whom have suffered constant failure at international level) just couldn't get themselves to believe it really could happen and froze - a classic case of self-doubt. Ireland evidently would be a little stronger in that area as much of their squad have been to major tournaments before so mentally they knew they had what it takes to make it happen.

[saintlyscot]

Well there you have it though. It is a pyschological issue that runs a long way back and tells me it is engrained in the Scottish psyche whatever the generation.

As for the squad today it has to be understood that mentally when qualification looked a real possibility perhaps the players (all of whom have suffered constant failure at international level) just couldn't get themselves to believe it really could happen and froze - a classic case of self-doubt. Ireland evidently would be a little stronger in that area as much of their squad have been to major tournaments before so mentally they knew they had what it takes to make it happen.

Undoubtedly more to it than this but little doubt performance dipped in the 2nd half of campaign.

[Caledonian Craig]

Undoubtedly more to it than this but little doubt performance dipped in the 2nd half of campaign.

I'd say there is more to that than you give credit. Murray in tennis had all those self-doubt issues for so very long before he finally cracked it to win a slam.

[Third Lanark]

No I have to say this runs much deeper back in time. Look at our World Cup exits - all caused by cocking up against the minnows of the group. This mental deficiency is engrained in the Scottish psyche and was even there when we qualified for major tournaments.

I think you are so right there. I've argued for employing a psychologist. If Northern Ireland can believe then so should we. It goes back to beating Engerlund in 1967; we felt we were invincible and thought other nations were minnows. We need to realise that we are now minnows. Every victory should be cherished, even v Lichtenstien or San Marino. As a nation we still have this chip on the shoulder - ref. bottling the indy vote.

[darkbluegas]

Yes of course it's in our psyche, it's been the same since my first World Cup in 74. Yet we still put those ex players in charge of the team and expect different results. You now the old saying" you always do what you always did......etc, etc." Berti was clearly was a disaster but that no doubt stemmed from poor communications between staff and players and a lack of willingness of players to change their ways. The game moves on and we need a coach with a serious mind to change our mentality with the knowledge to achieve the tactical upper hand in games. That has to be someone that can take the players with them...not confuse them. A prime example of that sea change is at West Ham in the EPL

[Third Lanark]

Yes of course it's in our psyche, it's been the same since my first World Cup in 74. Yet we still put those ex players in charge of the team and expect different results. You now the old saying" you always do what you always did......etc, etc." Berti was clearly was a disaster but that no doubt stemmed from poor communications between staff and players and a lack of willingness of players to change their ways. The game moves on and we need a coach with a serious mind to change our mentality with the knowledge to achieve the tactical upper hand in games. That has to be someone that can take the players with them...not confuse them. A prime example of that sea change is at West Ham in the EPL

Get what you say but I also think ditching Gordon would be a mistake. Think he will learn from his mistakes unlike Levein. I just cant see another coach of his class coming in unless it could be Lagerback.

[darkbluegas]

Get what you say but I also think ditching Gordon would be a mistake. Think he will learn from his mistakes unlike Levein. I just cant see another coach of his class coming in unless it could be Lagerback.

I don't doubt that WGS is a good man with his heart in the right place. I was as desperate as the next fan to get him to rescue us from our dark times but he hasn't. We're right back where we were and the easy acceptance of this started the moment the final whistle went on Thursday. When kids, coaches, players, fans needed something to take us forward we didn't get it. The after match comments asked for understanding about how down the players felt. We needed to know that the whole set up knew failure to make the top three in that groups was a disaster. The management would move on the following morning to ensure the next game would result in Gibralta getting the biggest humping in their short history. The following day the management would be doing everything to find the players over the domestic season that would ensure our future is bright. Every opportunity would be taken to get players together to formulate a tactical formation that would work in the modern game and we got none of it.

Our manager should not need a moment to consider his future. Unless he knows that every moment he wants the job and only gives it up when he's told it's over and dragged from the fray he's not the man for our country.

[Alan]

No.

It's because we have not been good enough in a variety of ways and scenarios on the pitch and off the pitch.

[thplinth]

Maybe because every team we put out has a few Alan's in it. We are hardly a cohesive nation are we so why should our football team be anything other than a reflection of it.

Historically all the folk with any fight in them emigrated to the new world or were killed. What is left in Scotland is 300 years of distilled shit pantery combined with a huge fitfh column of self loathing spanner in the works bawbags. (Not you Alan obviously)

[Alan]

^^^Post of the day^^^

[er yir macaroon]

There maybe some psychological problem, but until our technique matches our competitors it won't be possible to tell.

[stactuso85]

Yes.

[Robbo `81]

Lot of valid points being made here - I'd throw another couple of names into the mix - Roxburgh and Brown.... For me it was under the stewardship of these two that the "No easy games"mentality came to prominence..

Also the absolute obsession with always comparing ourselves with England, even subconciously, when we draw , say, Georgia - we always seem to have this reflex - "Georgia Away- potential banana skin" mentality --- We seem unable to think "Georgia = 6 easy points" as that could lead to accusations of being "Arrogant" and we all know who are percieved to be "Arrogant" don't we ? ....

It's almost as if in every group we HAVE to have a "potential banana skin" - it's almost like a self fullfilling prophecy ...... Is it possible games only become "potential banana skins" when you refer to them as "potential banana skins" ...

[Guest allyc]

Could install a faith healer like Glenn hoddle had for England a few years back...

[cujimmy72]

Love all the amateur psychology going on here, maybe we should just accept we are not that great.

The main problem in my view is simply as always finance, if the SFA and the government had thrown a decent amount of funding into the game years ago we would not be so hamstrung. (also, monies spent have probably gone to the wrong places probably as they are overseen by knob-ends)

Although I do agree the Scots culturally have a tendency to self-destruct the main reason I see not only in football but other major sports in Scotland is lack of funding.

In the days gone by, Scotland would get knocked out not because of a lack of talent but due to self destruction, now however, in my opinion its because of zero funding culminating in a lack of talent and general self destruction culminating in utter disaster at all levels of the game.

I'd also like to add I live in Australia and although it has a bigger population they seem to excel at most sports they take part in some of which aren't there national games.

[g@un]

Maybe it's a mental thing, however thinking back on this campaign the main reason that we haven't qualified is losing silly goals, generally switching off in defence at key moments - Germany away, Poland at home and Georgia away. Those three moments have done us, that would have been 4 extra points and been enough to qualify automatically.

[Nobby]

Losing in Georgia, settling for a draw in Ireland, failing to go on and score again v Germany away when we looked like we could, the predictable last gasp goal conceded v Poland, Players scuffing shots wide that they would smack into the net at club level, etc,. Are we too polite? Are we mentally deficient?

Nope you pick the wrong manager time and time again. I cant see Strachan getting you out of that group next year either. With the best will in the world on what ive seen this qualifying and the last friendly we played against you Scotland will hold no real fear for England. the games will be hyped no doubt but quite simply you really shouldnt be beating England they are a much better side. Im not saying that it wont happen and you may well get a result but even if you did youd lose the following game to Slovenia ! You need the right manager and from a purely selfish point of view I hope you keep strachan because it will probably be more of the same next year.

That said, genuinely sorry for some on here as I know what it would mean for you to qualify. Next summer is going to be painful at least you can be happy when England balls it up again. I have this really scary vision of Gareth Bale collecting the cup !!!!!

[g@un]

I'm not so sure on that. Wales and NI (like ourselves if we had qualified) will struggle to get out of the group stages. If Bale gets an injury, Wales are screwed! At this moment in time, I hold little hope for the England games, what we could hope for is to tighten up at the back and sneak a 0-0. If we do that at Wembley next November, that sets us up nicely. Wishful thinking I know.

[Caledonian Craig]

and I bet Nobby you wouldn't have tipped Northern Ireland to qualify in this campaign and they finished fifth in their last qualifying campaign. what is Michael O'Neill's managerial CV like again compared to Strachan's?