Orraloon Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Sounds like Trump is going to lose Utah and Alaska so that would be 9 votes gone. I think the electoral college system makes it very difficult for Trump to win. Can we not just send Ruthie over to count the postal votes and tell us what the result is now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnyTJS Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 1 hour ago, Orraloon said: I think the electoral college system makes it very difficult for Trump to win. Are you suggesting that he'd win on the popular vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Hey hey hey... This has gone different level now. Phart you need to watch this speech. Trump has crossed the rubicon my friend. This is now going to be extraordinary. The things he said in that speech, as a presidential candidate with a month to go... , this is scary. Trump has balls of steel. He is talking conspiracy theory in the open as presidential candidate. He is not saying certain things out loud but it could not be any clearer. This is amazing. I am astonished by what I am seeing. We are so, so fhucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Hillary in more email bother... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Brilliant video. The rise of Trump is evidence of a poisoned society and it won't go away if and when Clinton is elected. Where do Trump supporters go next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 10 hours ago, thplinth said: Hey hey hey... This has gone different level now. Phart you need to watch this speech. Trump has crossed the rubicon my friend. This is now going to be extraordinary. The things he said in that speech, as a presidential candidate with a month to go... , this is scary. Trump has balls of steel. He is talking conspiracy theory in the open as presidential candidate. He is not saying certain things out loud but it could not be any clearer. This is amazing. I am astonished by what I am seeing. We are so, so fhucked. I've been avoiding everything, but will watch this at some point today. It better be worth it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 2 hours ago, phart said: I've been avoiding everything, but will watch this at some point today. It better be worth it!! Hmmm in that case the first 15 mins is enough to give you the picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 1 hour ago, thplinth said: Hmmm in that case the first 15 mins is enough to give you the picture. I'm just about to put it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 On 13/10/2016 at 1:45 AM, DonnyTJS said: Are you suggesting that he'd win on the popular vote? Now I think about it again, probably not. It's maybe not the system itself which makes it harder for folk like Trump to win. It's the way the system works that makes it harder for me to imagine how Trump can win. From what I've read (which isn't a lot really) it seems, that unless Clinton does something really mental, then, she already has about 220 votes in the bag. That means she only needs another 50ish from the "swing states". If the republicans do lose the 9 votes from Utah and Alaska, she is another step closer to the Whitehouse. Then again, the folk telling me that she has those 220 in the bag, could be wrong and maybe thplinth will turn out to be right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnyTJS Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 21 hours ago, Orraloon said: Now I think about it again, probably not. It's maybe not the system itself which makes it harder for folk like Trump to win. It's the way the system works that makes it harder for me to imagine how Trump can win. From what I've read (which isn't a lot really) it seems, that unless Clinton does something really mental, then, she already has about 220 votes in the bag. That means she only needs another 50ish from the "swing states". If the republicans do lose the 9 votes from Utah and Alaska, she is another step closer to the Whitehouse. Then again, the folk telling me that she has those 220 in the bag, could be wrong and maybe thplinth will turn out to be right? The electoral college certainly is an outdated oddity, and occasionally overturns the popular vote - one of the perils of a written constitution ... Still, I don't think it's going to be Trump's biggest obstacle in getting to the White House. His biggest obstacle is probably his reliance on his own unhinged behaviour appealing to a sufficient number of Hillary-hating Republicans and yer classic 'Muricun wild-eyed "individualists" rather than relying on the support of a tried and tested party machine to get the traditional vote out. He's alienated enough of the GOP to ensure that there's effectively no 'Republican' campaign. He's fooked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Oh my fcking god Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 The worst part of Trump is what he has unleashed A bit like UKIP over here but far worse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Terrific but chilling article on Trump and Clinton by Chris Hedges. http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/donald_trump_the_dress_rehearsal_for_fascism_20161016 "The Democratic and Republican parties may be able to disappear Trump, but they won’t disappear the phenomena that gave rise to Trump. And unless the downward spiral is reversed—unless the half of the country now living in poverty is lifted out of poverty—the cynical game the elites are playing will backfire. Out of the morass will appear a genuine “Christian” fascist endowed with political skill, intelligence, self-discipline, ruthlessness and charisma. The monster the elites will again unwittingly elevate, as a foil to keep themselves in power, will consume them. There would be some justice in this if we did not all have to pay." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 "Bill Clinton transformed the Democratic Party into the Republican Party. He pushed the Republican Party so far to the right it became insane. Hillary Clinton is Mitt Romney in drag. She and the Democratic Party embrace policies—endless war, the security and surveillance state, neoliberalism, austerity, deregulation, new trade agreements and deindustrialization—that are embraced by the Republican elites. Clinton in office will continue the neoliberal assault on the poor and the working poor, and increasingly the middle class, that has defined the corporate state since the Reagan administration. She will do so while speaking in the cloying and hypocritical rhetoric of compassion that masks the cruelty of corporate capitalism." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnyTJS Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 8 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said: Terrific but chilling article on Trump and Clinton by Chris Hedges. http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/donald_trump_the_dress_rehearsal_for_fascism_20161016 Ta for posting that. It's superbly written - which doesn't make its analysis any more or less accurate. It's persuasive, imho, apart from the Yugoslavia analogy which I don't recognize in the US context and, more importantly, its attempt to paint the current political turmoil as a socio-economic class struggle. From the little I know of the States, Socialism has been effectively taboo since the '30s, and unions have been corrupt proxies of Capital (cf: the Teamsters). Is "half the country now living in poverty"? As ever, how do you define poverty ... But leaving that aside, the identification of an incipient 'Christian fascism', partly enabled by Democrat electoral tactics, and the possibility of a future candidate who could appeal to the disenfranchised and who isn't an utter dickhead looks prescient at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 The U.S is already a fascist state in some respects anyway. " The Fascist state is a will to power and empire. The Roman tradition is here a powerful force. According to the Doctrine of Fascism, empire is not only territorial or military or mercantile concept, but a spiritual and moral one. One can think of an empire, that is, a nation, which directly or indirectly guides other nations, without the need to conquer a single square kilometre of territory. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 This might sound a bit weird coming from me on this thread but I am now a little disturbed by how crazy this has become. I think Trump is also shocked at it. It is so unbelievably biased, i never expected it would be this bad, i mean I knew it would be bad but this is different level. The media have gone 'all in' in Clinton. This really is the election you will all look back on... one way or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 4 minutes ago, thplinth said: This might sound a bit weird coming from me on this thread but I am now a little disturbed by how crazy this has become. I think Trump is also shocked at it. It is so unbelievably biased, i never expected it would be this bad, i mean I knew it would be bad but this is different level. The media have gone 'all in' in Clinton. This really is the election you will all look back on... one way or the other. Not all USA Today from earlier today http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/10/17/hillary-clinton-foundation-donors-lobbyists-state-department/92285652/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter Washington Post today https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/17/hillary-clintons-email-problems-just-came-roaring-back/?postshare=5911476721346222&tid=ss_tw Reuters today http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-fbi-clinton-idUSKBN12H1QA NY Times yesterday http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/17/us/hillary-clinton-cheryl-mills.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0 NY Post Saturday http://nypost.com/2016/10/15/the-hillary-emails-reveal-a-life-full-of-deceit/ Washington Post Saturday https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/wikileaks-emails-show-clinton-campaign-collected-data-to-discredit-bill-clinton-accuser/2016/10/15/8e76dde0-930c-11e6-a6a3-d50061aa9fae_story.html?postshare=6801476586546202&tid=ss_tw ABC News Saturday http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/clinton-team-ran-highly-scripted-campaign-wikileaks-emails/story?id=42827506&cid=abcn_tco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 55 minutes ago, thplinth said: This might sound a bit weird coming from me on this thread but I am now a little disturbed by how crazy this has become. I think Trump is also shocked at it. It is so unbelievably biased, i never expected it would be this bad, i mean I knew it would be bad but this is different level. The media have gone 'all in' in Clinton. This really is the election you will all look back on... one way or the other. But is it? Just because the media is biased and Clinton is an awful politician (both true) is there any evidence Trump would be better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Evidence? WTF man. IF trump loses this one we are screwed. That is We. I am not proving I am not discussing I am not debating it. I am as horrified by this as you. Cheerybye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 11 hours ago, thplinth said: Evidence? WTF man. IF trump loses this one we are screwed. That is We. I am not proving I am not discussing I am not debating it. I am as horrified by this as you. Cheerybye. The world really is screwed if someone like Trump is its saviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Q Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 On 13/10/2016 at 11:00 PM, thplinth said: Hey hey hey... This has gone different level now. Phart you need to watch this speech. Trump has crossed the rubicon my friend. This is now going to be extraordinary. The things he said in that speech, as a presidential candidate with a month to go... , this is scary. Trump has balls of steel. He is talking conspiracy theory in the open as presidential candidate. He is not saying certain things out loud but it could not be any clearer. This is amazing. I am astonished by what I am seeing. We are so, so fhucked. Is that the one where he talks about people warning him it would be hell, but he isn't going to hell he's going to heaven for what he has done? Border line Jesus complex, weird even for him. I've read a transcript of that one (I find him pretty much unwatchable for more than a few seconds) and it is full-on roaster territory. Anyway, Trump has confounded expectation so often that it is probably rash to say he is finished, but he does seem to be moving into the blame and excuse stage. Election rigging, media bias, dirty tricks, reaching out directly to the conspiracy theorists. Etc. Predictable enough really. The saddest thing in all of this is that by having this ultimately unelectable, bullying, bigoted arsepiece out there, not nearly enough attention has been focussed on Clinton. It has been, and no doubt will be again before we're finished, dirty and beyond crazy, but unwittingly Trump has made, for most, Clinton's election not just possible but somehow essential. Simply because he is the alternative. That's fvcked up, and is, I suspect, how his campaign will be remembered. Along, of course, with disbelief anyone ever took it seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 2 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said: The world really is screwed if someone like Trump is its saviour. Personally I think with Trump what you see is what he is. I don't think he has any agenda other than what he is actually saying he will do. He frightens me on Iran he really does but my bet is he will be pragmatic in office if he wins. Clinton on the other hand really worries me. She and the forces behind her are bad news. Everything she says is a lie. I am seriously concerned about WWIII if she wins. After watching them unleash their mercenary armies, destroy the middle east near enough and then most shocking of all destabilize Ukraine and provoke a civil war with ethnic Russians on one side of it, I now think they are capable of anything and they could not care less about Europe, in fact I sense a deep contempt. Then you get to the engineered refugee crisis... on and on it goes. It is all heading only one place and the Russians know it and are preparing for it. As bad as Trump is I just do not see him anywhere near as bad as Clinton. So it's Trump or nuclear holocaust. Yaaay Donald! How would you be feeling if this was Bush v Clinton as it probably would have been had Trump not destroyed him. As bad as this might seem that would have been worse. At least here there is a chance you might not get more of the same. But even so it still feels very grim outlook wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 2 hours ago, thplinth said: Personally I think with Trump what you see is what he is. I don't think he has any agenda other than what he is actually saying he will do. He frightens me on Iran he really does but my bet is he will be pragmatic in office if he wins. Clinton on the other hand really worries me. She and the forces behind her are bad news. Everything she says is a lie. I am seriously concerned about WWIII if she wins. After watching them unleash their mercenary armies, destroy the middle east near enough and then most shocking of all destabilize Ukraine and provoke a civil war with ethnic Russians on one side of it, I now think they are capable of anything and they could not care less about Europe, in fact I sense a deep contempt. Then you get to the engineered refugee crisis... on and on it goes. It is all heading only one place and the Russians know it and are preparing for it. As bad as Trump is I just do not see him anywhere near as bad as Clinton. So it's Trump or nuclear holocaust. Yaaay Donald! How would you be feeling if this was Bush v Clinton as it probably would have been had Trump not destroyed him. As bad as this might seem that would have been worse. At least here there is a chance you might not get more of the same. But even so it still feels very grim outlook wise. I'm giving you a government health warning before you read this then: https://newmatilda.com/2016/03/23/john-pilger-why-hillary-clinton-is-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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