Ally Bongo Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 3 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said: Phart mentions propaganda and on cue Ally posts something from the New York Times. As Phart alluded to, thats something that John K Cooley could not be accused of regardless of his article being in the NY Times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eisegerwind Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 17 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: "Anyone who says that - "ok Saddam was a bad guy but" doesnt know what they are talking about. You hear that said quite a lot They dont know. They dont know what fascism feels like They dont know what it's like to see families forced at gunpoint to applaud the torture and execution in public of their other family members They dont know what it's like to see the 180,000 members of the Kurdish people, at a minimum, killed by poison gas in the Northern Provinces of Iraq They dont know what it's like to see at least that number of Shia arabs killed in Southern Iraq They dont know what it took anglo American, British American policy, to put a no fly zone from 1991 onwards over those two zones to make sure that those two genocides could not be replicated. They dont know what it would be like to be a citizen of Kuwait or Iran seeing Saddam Hussein's army coming over the horizon attacking your civilians in that way, abolishing in one case the whole existance of a member state of the Arab League, the Islamic conference and the United Nations - abolishing it, annexing it, making it part of Iraq. They didnt hear the speech from Saddam Hussein saying the only mistake he ever made was that he invaded Kuwait before he had finished the nuclear weapon - he should have done it the other way round - that he was making at the Tuweitha reactor which we found as a result of the Kuwait war when we werent even looking for it. We lived at this man's permission for a long time We lived by his warrant Only his stupidity allowed us to be as complacent as we were and in the meantime fighters in Northern and Southern Iraq were fighting against a tyrant that we should have been fighting ourselves. We have removed a keystone state in the middle east from the control and sole ownership of a psychopathic crime family who owned all of Iraq and treated it's people as if they were disposable citizens. I remind you that this keystone state is a choke point on the gulf and an arterial carotid point of the World economy that cannot be left under the control of a fascistic mafia. May i remind you further that it exists between the exorbitant sunni wahabi theocracy of Saudi Arabia and the no less exorbitant shia theocracy of Iran, that it is the keystone that allows us, yes us, to say if we can recuperate Iraq, if we can recuperate it's oil industry, if we can stop it being the private property of a psycopathic crime family we can not only help the Iraqis but we can undercut the monopoly/duopoly of shia Iran and Wahabi Saudi Arabia. Does anyone think this is a matter of indifference ? We have brought one of the World's great war criminals to justice and put him and his crime family along with complicit associates on trial in public in a country where until recently it was death, very slow death, to posess a cell phone or satellite dish That we have undone what UNESCO calls the greatest crime against the human ecology ever committed - the destruction of the marshes of Southern Iraq, the oldest wetlands in the Middle East, the smoke and destruction of which could be seen from the space shuttle, so terrible was the environmental decay. C Hitchens 2008 (before Iraq descended into that film The Crazies) What a bizarre piece of writing, all the 'they dont know' stuff, I suspect the writer doesn't know either since he wasn't there. I disagree with most of it, suspect a lot of it is propaganda and the paragraph aboutt 'Saddams army coming over the horizon.......' is factually wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, Eisegerwind said: What a bizarre piece of writing, all the 'they dont know' stuff, I suspect the writer doesn't know either since he wasn't there. Actually Hitchens was one of the few journalists who had been in all the "axis of evil" countries Iraq, Iran & North Korea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eisegerwind Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 10 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: Actually Hitchens was one of the few journalists who had been in all the "axis of evil" countries Iraq, Iran & North Korea Yeah, but for how long! To be honest I'm being a bit facetious as I don't know all the in's and out's of the Iraq situation but I just don't buy the Saddam was the baddest man on the planet stuff. When you look at all the accusations made against the Iraq government and the lack of evidence found after the invasion and the lies told by our government it makes the Iraqi's look squeeky clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Hitchens was a neo-con he wrote a hagiography of the events. Not a biography. It's historical revisionism at it's best. Talking about how they "removed" a criminal of great value, when regime change was denied by our own government, it was his 45 minute attacks using nuclear and biological/chemical weapons. When Powell went to the UN he didn't argue about the crimes of Saddam, he showed Anthrax vials, and CGI mobile weapons lab. In this vial there is enough anthrax to kill so and so folk, etc etc. Stealing phd projects, faking intelligence etc. If you weren't aware of the rhetoric before the war, Hitchens piece of sophistry is more likely to fool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddardStark Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 I genuinely can't see Trump lasting the full term. He is either going to be impeached or he might even walk away from the role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) Looks like the key hallmarks of the Trump administration are going to be legislation by proclamation, and an utterly disfunctional government. Edited February 14, 2017 by Rossy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddardStark Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Rossy said: Looks like the key hallmarks of the Trump administration are going to be legislation by proclamation, and an utterly disfunctional government. Agree. Policy announcements via Twitter and inpromptu press conferences in mid air are chaotic. I look forward to Spicers press brieifing tomight. Edited February 14, 2017 by EddardStark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, phart said: Hitchens was a neo-con he wrote a hagiography of the events. Not a biography. It's historical revisionism at it's best. Talking about how they "removed" a criminal of great value, when regime change was denied by our own government, it was his 45 minute attacks using nuclear and biological/chemical weapons. When Powell went to the UN he didn't argue about the crimes of Saddam, he showed Anthrax vials, and CGI mobile weapons lab. In this vial there is enough anthrax to kill so and so folk, etc etc. Stealing phd projects, faking intelligence etc. If you weren't aware of the rhetoric before the war, Hitchens piece of sophistry is more likely to fool. Fell for the bullshit more than being a neocon i like to think He gave that talk in 2008 - after the WMD story was exposed as a lie Anyway there is plenty evidence that agrees with him out there of what it was like to live in Saddam's Iraq - particularly if you were not one of the Sunni elite Edited February 14, 2017 by Ally Bongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMcoolJ Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 On 2/6/2017 at 4:13 AM, DonnyTJS said: During the campaign he showed that he has no understanding of the Constitution (eg: saying there'd be term-limits on Congress). Questioning the judiciary like this is incredibly dumb; it undermines the most basic structures upon which the country's governance is based. Executive orders are subject to judicial review to prevent them becoming instruments of dictatorship. He really is a tool. I've been trying to take a wait-and-see approach with Trump (like it makes an iota of difference what I think ...), agreeing with the likes of PIAK and Phart that the hostility has been way over the top and is rank with hypocrisy, but tweets like that are just cretinous. The US is being run by a child. Excellent post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMcoolJ Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 On 2/8/2017 at 10:37 AM, Orraloon said: Really? Now, I don't know the guy very well, but I would have thought that talking was one of his strong points. And, it's hard for me to believe that anybody can get a golf handicap of 4 without the ability to focus. Absolutely not a chance he plays off 4 - have you seen his swing?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMcoolJ Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) 14 hours ago, Eisegerwind said: Yep, the Kuwait's had been given numerous warnings about the sideways drilling, a technique that was flatly denied as impossible and lies by UK government. I strongly suspect that the companies who were pioneering "sideways drilling" (directional drilling) at that time were all American. I can't think of any non-US firms that do it even today. Edited February 14, 2017 by SMcoolJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 1 hour ago, SMcoolJ said: Absolutely not a chance he plays off 4 - have you seen his swing?! Have you seen Jim Furyk's ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMcoolJ Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 17 minutes ago, Parklife said: Have you seen Jim Furyk's ? True!! Not pretty, but Furyk get's it down on an inside plane with a good weight transfer and hinge. Trump on the other hand.....let's just say if he claims to play of 4, he takes a lot of mulligans and fills in his own scorecard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 1 hour ago, SMcoolJ said: True!! Not pretty, but Furyk get's it down on an inside plane with a good weight transfer and hinge. Trump on the other hand.....let's just say if he claims to play of 4, he takes a lot of mulligans and fills in his own scorecard. North Korean 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/14/mike-flynn-resignation-trumps-nightmare-begun-mar-a-lago Apparently dinner guests at his golf club got to sit around and listen to Trump discussing foreign policy on the phone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Rossy said: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/14/mike-flynn-resignation-trumps-nightmare-begun-mar-a-lago Apparently dinner guests at his golf club got to sit around and listen to Trump discussing foreign policy on the phone... Ach, the folk in the clubhouse were probably too interested discussing his handicap to be bothered listening into his phone calls. I think he is playing off 3 now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 4 minutes ago, Orraloon said: Ach, the folk in the clubhouse were probably too interested discussing his handicap to be bothered listening into his phone calls. I think he is playing off 3 now? Should be an interesting strokeplay against the North Korean gadgie. Both of them going round the course 54 under par. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Netanyahu in town today, and it looks like The Manchild is making up middle east policy on the hoof. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/15/trump-says-us-not-committed-to-two-state-israel-palestine-solution It's obvious to a blind man that Trump cares nothing about a negotiated, lasting middle east peace process. No wonder Netanyahu is smiling like a cheshire cat. Israel has been handed a 4 year, no punishment, blank canvas to do whatever the hell it wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 15 hours ago, Rossy said: Netanyahu in town today, and it looks like The Manchild is making up middle east policy on the hoof. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/15/trump-says-us-not-committed-to-two-state-israel-palestine-solution It's obvious to a blind man that Trump cares nothing about a negotiated, lasting middle east peace process. No wonder Netanyahu is smiling like a cheshire cat. Israel has been handed a 4 year, no punishment, blank canvas to do whatever the hell it wants. He's terrible, rwal bad, on Palestine/Israel. Although the paper is presenting it a lot simpler than it is. The Oslo accords were negotiated by people all being paid by Israel. Arafat negotiated himself all the sales tax into his own bank accounts which was paid by Israel directly, to a tune of about $8 million a week. Which was found out when it turned out at his death he was worth $1-3 Billion. Total clusterfeck, nightmare, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 On 29/01/2017 at 9:56 PM, Ally Bongo said: Katherine Smith sold IDs to five of the hijackers(1) was "smothered with gasoline and "firebombed" in her car one day before she was scheduled to testify. Source: Kansas City Star, 02/16/02 Edit July 2007: (1) Most sources indicate that Katherine Smith sold licenses to middle eastern men or illegal aliens NOT hijackers as mentioned in the Kansas City Star quote http://911review.org/Storage/Katherine-Smith-9_11.html Yeah but we know the name of some of them, and their links to other names etc. A lot came out in 2011 when the FBI field reports were given out in FOI requests. I never saw this post at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Q Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Trump is probably ahead of schedule in terms of mad fuvckwit scariness. Penny beginning to drop for a lot of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 24 minutes ago, Pool Q said: Penny beginning to drop for a lot of people. Is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 2 hours ago, Pool Q said: Trump is probably ahead of schedule in terms of mad fuvckwit scariness. Penny beginning to drop for a lot of people. Absolutely insane press conference today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny's Yard Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) This is quite something... Channel 4 News (@Channel4News) 2/16/17, 15:33 President Donald Trump is corrected by NBC reporter after falsely claiming he had the biggest electoral margin since President Reagan. pic.twitter.com/a7K16mU0Pc Download the Twitter app Edit: struggling to make my link work. Edited February 17, 2017 by Denny's Yard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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