Joining A Union

[hunchy]

Just yesterday emailed to come out of my Union. Like the rest of the work force, the delegates are shitting themselves about upsetting anyone in authority, in case it lands them in bother, and as such will sugar coat issues that are very serious.

They talk a good game, and have the same concerns, but when it gets to the nitty gritty, there is no follow through. Too much hypocrisy for me, and the days of a workforce truly standing together, to envoke change are long gone imo.

In that case unelect the stewards and electnew ones.

Having been in a similar position to them (I was a work rep) I know how hard it can be in meetings and having the workforce say you are doing nothing. My standard reply was fine I'll step down and you take over. Unless you are prepared to take over from them or they are totally incompetent then at least have some understanding of how hard it can be in negotiations

[hunchy]

I was just going to ask do unions in general still have any clout?

Depends on the industry and the union. Fire brigade union and the rmt? That represents the tube workers in London still have plenty of clout. Some don't but that can be more down to not having strong shop stewards rather than the union itself

[euan2020]

In that case unelect the stewards and electnew ones.

Having been in a similar position to them (I was a work rep) I know how hard it can be in meetings and having the workforce say you are doing nothing. My standard reply was fine I'll step down and you take over. Unless you are prepared to take over from them or they are totally incompetent then at least have some understanding of how hard it can be in negotiations

is that not a bit toys out the pram, rather that justify/defend/detail the activities that you were doing, outlining objective and degree's of success on these ?

[scotlad]

I was just going to ask do unions in general still have any clout?

A lot less than they used to and once the government's latest reforms take hold it will be even more difficult to take industrial action. Trade unions can still be effective though in negotiating pay and conditions as well as providing legal and monetary advice to their members.

If anyone hasn't already joined one, I would still urge them to do so. It is still worthwhile. In Scandinavian countries they don't have a national minimum wage set by the government. They don't need one. Trade union membership is so commonplace, so much the norm, that TUs are able to negotiate decent terms and conditions with employers on behalf of their members. The Tory vision of society is almost the antithesis of that, but if people are prepared to work together we can still call their bluff.

[scotlad]

is that not a bit toys out the pram, rather that justify/defend/detail the activities that you were doing, outlining objective and degree's of success on these ?

I can see where Hunchy is coming from. If you join a union then it is your union. You can change it. If you feel things aren't working or could be done better then get yourself involved.

[hunchy]

is that not a bit toys out the pram, rather that justify/defend/detail the activities that you were doing, outlining objective and degree's of success on these ?

Not at first but after doing it for years and getting shit from the workers for not getting anything (remember we were not a union and so had no real powers) i was getting fed up with certain people who were quick to criticise but not so quick to speak up in meetings. We always had a meeting with staff after an employee forum meeting to pass on answers take questions,hear views etc after so long it felt like I was banging my head against a brick wall

[hampden_loon2878]

On 29 January 2016 at 9:25 PM, euan2020 said:

Not saying it's a good thing but the no warning. Is that normally not because they are giving enhanced packages to buy out statutory rights. ? Consultation will always be box ticking exercise. I was looking up a global report and amount of people given severance Xmas eve New Year's Eve was nasty on our company

Thats my employer putting us through consultation,, its a score matrix we are being judged by,,regarding the scoring, if the company are in any way wanting shot of an employee could they just score them lower than they desevrve or can you employees apeal the score?my worry is they could be after me as i have been very vocal regarding politics which happens to be the complete opposite to the chairmans,, but my scoring should be at the top end 

[killiefaetheferry]

In my experience, you would normally have access to the scoring (your own). So you should at least be able to see what value you have been awarded for the various criteria.........attendance, disciplinary record, length of service, performance reviews etc. You would not be able to see anyone else's though. Pretty sure you will be able to have a rough guess though, as most workplaces will all know who is off sick, been disciplined, got a good review etc.

If you feel that the scoring process has not been carried out fairly then you raise a grievance as soon as possible.

Edited September 26, 2016 by killiefaetheferry

[hampden_loon2878]

9 minutes ago, killiefaetheferry said:

In my experience, you would normally have access to the scoring (your own). So you should at least be able to see what value you have been awarded for the various criteria.........attendance, disciplinary record, length of service, performance reviews etc. You would not be able to see anyone else's though. Pretty sure you will be able to have a rough guess though, as most workplaces will all know who is off sick, been disciplined, got a good review etc.

If you feel that the scoring process has not been carried out fairly then you raise a grievance as soon as possible.

Everything from absence, length of employment, qualification, discipline will all be top marks as that is solid,, the competence is the only thing they could muddy and that happens to be the highest score(importance) out of all the scoring but my competence history is 100% so if for any reason i do end up at risk i should be able to appeal?ehatva horrible situation this is and i thought i would never see,, wouldnt be so bad if you werent freinds with the people that are also at risk..

[killiefaetheferry]

1 hour ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Everything from absence, length of employment, qualification, discipline will all be top marks as that is solid,, the competence is the only thing they could muddy and that happens to be the highest score(importance) out of all the scoring but my competence history is 100% so if for any reason i do end up at risk i should be able to appeal?ehatva horrible situation this is and i thought i would never see,, wouldnt be so bad if you werent freinds with the people that are also at risk..

Yeah just been through it twice in the last 2 years. First time I was safe due to a high score, but having looked at other options, there was part of me that was strangely disappointed ! A year later I was the first out of 40 to say at my first meeting that I would take the redundancy and go.

Nothing you can do regarding your workmates. Just support each other when required, as it is an extremely stressful situation if you need or want to stay.

[aaid]

2 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Everything from absence, length of employment, qualification, discipline will all be top marks as that is solid,, the competence is the only thing they could muddy and that happens to be the highest score(importance) out of all the scoring but my competence history is 100% so if for any reason i do end up at risk i should be able to appeal?ehatva horrible situation this is and i thought i would never see,, wouldnt be so bad if you werent freinds with the people that are also at risk..

I've been involved in redundancies on both sides of the table on a few occasions.  The key thing is what the business case supporting the redundancy is, usually it will either be one of two options, firstly either closing down completely a function or a location, in which case there's no need for scoring as basically everyone goes, although there may be relocations available.  The other case is where you are reducing capacity, ie., you currently have ten widget-makers but only need five.  In that case, the usual way is then to do some sort of scoring, sounds like that's what's happening with you.

I was involved in that once, in the industry I work in its not unusual for companies to offer enhanced redundancy packages which is effectively paying you off to go away and be quiet.

From memory, you are entitled to see your own scores and of course you can challenge those.  You are - I think - entitled to see the other scores but not the names of the other people, so you can see that you are number 5 in the list.

You're also entitled to know what group of people you are being included in for the ranking, depending on the job, that may or may not be fair.  Again, it's not the names of people but just the general group, although depending on the group that might be easy to work out.

 A real life example of this was a software company I worked for had around 10 product groups and wanted to reduce capacity in 4 of those.  The technical skills were really transferable across groups but initially it was only the PMs in the impacted product groups that were put at risk.  It was argued that they had transferable skills and so the impacted pool was extended to all PMs.  I don't think ultimately anyone moved across a product group but it did slow the process down which bought people more time.

Regardless of whether there is union representatives, if you are in group consultation you should have employee reps and these are some of the questions they are asking.

The time we had to do scoring, in my department we took a lot of time to make sure it was fair and objective and it was all as clean as it could be.  Other managers took it as a opportunity to get rid of people they didn't like and they're the ones that went to a tribunal.

Good luck and unless your happy with the outcome don't sign anything. 

[Third Lanark]

On 29/01/2016 at 7:32 PM, Flora MaDonald said:

They're the biggest hypocrites out. The union delegates I've worked with, earned over double that of the punters.

Cannot stand the Labour s.

And that is why we need to fight against union bureaucrats as well as right wing MPs. Their wages should be no more than those of an average skilled worker. Folk like you need to become active and select candidates who are pledged to that policy. Simply to rail against the Labour party and the union tops is not enough: they are your reps and mine.

[phart]

Unions only have collective strength, if you feel your union is weak then it is a collective weakness. The rep can't fight 40 execs himself with no real back up.

Most folk are domesticated and/or totally in thrall to debt, therefore they won't do anything or can't do anything cause of debt chain around their necks.

It's no surprise that the Union that worked together the most (Tubeworkers) have the only real living wage out of all workers in London.

[euan2020]

9 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Thats my employer putting us through consultation,, its a score matrix we are being judged by,,regarding the scoring, if the company are in any way wanting shot of an employee could they just score them lower than they desevrve or can you employees apeal the score?my worry is they could be after me as i have been very vocal regarding politics which happens to be the complete opposite to the chairmans,, but my scoring should be at the top end 

I got called by hr in June and got told I would get rif'd within 10 days.  Not heard from them in 12 weeks now but hear they are chasing me down in background to remove my headcount. Will simply be an enhanced offer to make me go.  

for guys in uk I think our company plays around on the scoring cos there are guys who have left, who were certainly not the weakest. 

[Grantyboy1983]

If they want rid of you they will make the scoring whatever it needs to be in order to do this. The banding of the scores are cleverly worked out to accommodate this. In all reality, who would go as far as an industrial tribunal in the result they got the chop? I don't think many would to be honest. My employers offered an incentive of another months salary if you 'volunteered' on top of the enhanced package on offer.