Fermer Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Genuine questions guys. Is it really as bad as everyone makes out. Facts are Rangers and Celtic fans and some of other teams do have a religious bias. Just facts. But also facts are most fans of clubs all over UK sing songs that they would never sing about other people. My opinion is that it kind of came to a head when Neil Lennon was manager of celtic and was vilified by rangers (and other clubs) which went way over the top as we and most like minded people know. I am at an age now where I remember the excitement going to pittodrie, easter road and celtic park when the atmosphere was tremendous but filled with passion (and hate). Have we become too pc? I listened to the Rangers v Hibs game on radio over xmas and yes the rangers fans were back to the old tunes. But do songs at a football match really matter?? I understand why fans of other clubs dont like it as some of the away support for old firm are really poor and reason for me giving up a season ticket at ibrox was away trip against Juventus. But the guys I went with from Lanark were good guys. My opinion is Scottish Football needs passion and terracing back. It's no the pictures!! When I was young me and my best mate would meet in morning of old firm game then go off in our different buses etc then come back and go out on the saturday night with one of us getting a slagging. Anyway, rant over but would like opinions on it. Probably to sum up, is religious hate at a game worse than any other type?? I love going to Wembley and sing songs against them but would have a pint after game with English pals. And on that note Scotland forever!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Religion should be for the church, chapel, mosque, synagogue, gurdwara or wherever, not football grounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzo Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I wonder how many religious supporters actually practice their faith? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fermer Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 Religion should be for the church, chapel, mosque, synagogue, gurdwara or wherever, not football grounds. I would agree aaid but we have to deal with reality. I taught in college and when the local secondary schools came in it is just a fact that the catholics schools 90 per cent supported celtic. In the non demonitaional ones about 70 would support rangers. That cannot be changed overnight. Is religion a problem with other clubs? Like Motherwell, airdrie dundee etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fermer Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 I wonder how many religious supporters actually practice their faith? Thats a good point too bonzo. Some of my celtic pals do right enough. But probably majority dont. My main point which I am probably making an erse of is it so bad compared to other songs of hate which you hear at fitba? I dont think I could go to a rangers game and sing any 'tunes' now for fear of being put on you tube or something. I was never in to religion or orange lodge and stuff. But the fact is a lot of people are. Just think about these things during night and wonder what answer is. I agree it shouldnt but it is unfortunately mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eisegerwind Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Religion is a poison whether in places of worship, football grounds, schools,wherever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Religion is a poison whether in places of worship, football grounds, schools,wherever. And we have a winner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertsscot Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Religion is a poison whether in places of worship, football grounds, schools,wherever. Sectarianism is a poison whether in places of worship, football grounds, schools,wherever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan cake Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Religion should be for the church, chapel, mosque, synagogue, gurdwara or wherever, not football grounds. should be banned, period Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fermer Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 Religion is a poison whether in places of worship, football grounds, schools,wherever. Agree with that too. But it is all around us in the world. You or I arent going to change that.Its dealing with it I think that matters with logic. I am not going to be able to change an orangeman or muslim or practising catholic or any other faith. People have a right to believe in what they want. So should songs of any religious, racist, insulting, historical etc be banned from all football grounds?? It is a tough one I know but we dont live in a perfect world. Good to get views from other folk though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 The fable of the Tower of Babel in the Bible almost got it right To stop the people building a tower that could reach the Heavens. God gave them all different languages so they couldnt work together. The reality is that it is man made religion that has stymied the human race. If there was no man made religion which played on the most basic of human emotions (wishful thinking) we would probably be capable of interstellar travel today not to mention having no poverty or famine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fermer Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 should be banned, period real world though. I aint religious but hope there is someone up there to save me. Superman? (Homer Simpson). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huddersfield Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I spent years on the terraces praying...usually for an equaliser. On the balance of probablilities if there is a God, he can't be that interested in football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewolf_1980 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Neil Lennon was primarily disliked because he came across as a bit of an arse, rather than anything religious. In my opinion. Religion shouldn't come into football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fermer Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 I think there is also a tribalism that comes with supporting your team though. You get caught up in songs or chants that you wouldnt be proud of. There is no way on earth we wil stop rangers and celtic fans from singing their songs. So what's the answer? You cant just say ban religion or have quotes from the bible!! Or maybe deducting points but I think that gets too complicated. A part of me says sticks and stones and all that and maybe people just get offended too easily. I dont actually care what people shout or sing at football matches, but do draw a line at the terrorist stuff. I used to love going to parkhead and the celtic fans were tremendous for atmosphere. Soldier Song. It didnt bother me one bit. True saying is we are all Jock Tamsons bairns. I will get an answer to this as it bugs me as you can tell!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fermer Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 Neil Lennon was primarily disliked because he came across as a bit of an arse, rather than anything religious. In my opinion. Religion shouldn't come into football. I would disagree with you there though wolfie. I think there was a lot of religious stuff as well. Although I agre with the way he came across. My last old firm game was when we won 2 0 and the abuse that guy suffered that day was bad. Remeber Martin O'Neill running on to park after game to hold his hand up in defiance. I actuallt felt sorry for the guy that day. And there was a reigious element at that hearts game when he was attacked. Photographs in paper with the union jacks and red hands. But he didnt help himself as a manager though. On your second point I agree but it does. I think because we are mainly Scotland supporters on here we all have that sentiment. Just not sure if rangers fans singing the sash or celtic and soldier song is worth all the fuss and publicity it gets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewolf_1980 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 A lot of fans will sing bigoted/sectarian songs just to join in with the crowd and have no clue what the lyrics actually mean or refer to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fermer Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 Totally agree. As I said before its tribalism at football mate. I think when I was young and in the enclosure I heard the rangers fans singing about the munich air disaster. I looked it up (before google and when lol meant something different!!). And to this day I cant get my head around why people, grown men would sing about that. I think I am going through a crisis so better go down to black bitch to drown in my worries!!! Please keep debate going as i tink it is interesting. From what I have read the gers guys on here are same mind as me. But religion has been main reason for old firm being where they are I think and that aint going to change in forseeable. Is there a religious thing with other teams still? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilly71 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Neil Lennon was primarily disliked because he came across as a bit of an arse, rather than anything religious. In my opinion. Religion shouldn't come into football. Haha! Brilliant revisionism. Neil Lennon is an Irish Catholic Nationalist. A lot of Rangers fans hated him for this, don't kid yourself on. Scott Brown is the same kind of in your face player that Lennon was and whilst a lot of supporters from a liot of teams hate him in the same way they hated Lennon ( but deep down secretly wished they played for their teams) Funny how Brown, so far has managed to escape numerous death threats, assaults and letter bombs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Neil Lennon was primarily disliked because he came across as a bit of an arse, rather than anything religious. In my opinion. Religion shouldn't come into football. My thoughts too. An utter whank he was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampden_loon2878 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I cant think of anything worse,, celtic and rangers have been a vehicle for bigotry to cling on in scotland when it would have largely died off without the two clubs to associate it with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fermer Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 I cant think of anything worse,, celtic and rangers have been a vehicle for bigotry to cling on in scotland when it would have largely died off without the two clubs to associate it with partly i think and definately a vehicle. But not only one unfortunately. I genuinely love Scottish history and the reformation etc. My ornage pals like singing about the Boyne. But I like like singing about Wallace and Bruce. So they question me on that and its a hard one. I remember putting a notice in The West Lothian Courier to remind the sons of wallace we were marching on the galaday. And for fun I added 'wear battle dress'. Meaning obviously the Kilt etc. Then on the Saturday night the master of the lodge pulled me up saying if he were to put that in he would have vilified if he had put that in. And he was probably right. Right need a pint now! Probably bored you enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flumax Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Lots of clubs were formed from church groups in the UK see http://www.wsc.co.uk/forum-index/27-football/943910-clubs-founded-by-churchesfor eg (I would assume similarly overseas) but only a couple have elements cling to their roots and traditions. Most seem to think it's a by gone era and moved on,like much of modern society . I personally find it odd when people cross themselves, or raise hand in prayer before going on the pitch or scoring. But if it helps them, so cares. I find it equally as odd when players kiss tattoos or wedding rings or point up to the sky for a recently deceased relative. I think society is much better for secularism and I think football would be better to. So long as no one is prohibited, marginalised or offended by someone's religious beliefs and actions. Then who gives a flying fig. As it's the season, I do not like actors and artists at awards ceremonies thanking god. Undermines the hard work they an be others around them put in to their careers and achievements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fermer Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 Lots of clubs were formed from church groups in the UK see http://www.wsc.co.uk/forum-index/27-football/943910-clubs-founded-by-churchesfor eg (I would assume similarly overseas) but only a couple have elements cling to their roots and traditions. Most seem to think it's a by gone era and moved on,like much of modern society . I personally find it odd when people cross themselves, or raise hand in prayer before going on the pitch or scoring. But if it helps them, so cares. I find it equally as odd when players kiss tattoos or wedding rings or point up to the sky for a recently deceased relative. I think society is much better for secularism and I think football would be better to. So long as no one is prohibited, marginalised or offended by someone's religious beliefs and actions. Then who gives a flying fig. As it's the season, I do not like actors and artists at awards ceremonies thanking god. Undermines the hard work they an be others around them put in to their careers and achievements. Good post too. But is the answer just blowing in the wind as john lennon wrote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Haha! Brilliant revisionism. Neil Lennon is an Irish Catholic Nationalist. A lot of Rangers fans hated him for this, don't kid yourself on. Scott Brown is the same kind of in your face player that Lennon was and whilst a lot of supporters from a liot of teams hate him in the same way they hated Lennon ( but deep down secretly wished they played for their teams) Funny how Brown, so far has managed to escape numerous death threats, assaults and letter bombs.Spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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