Austerity! "i'd Pay More Tax If I Could"

[Orraloon]

I'm now starting to get a wee bit concerned about this. All the opposition parties, including the Tories , are promising to increase taxes if they get elected. Only the SNP aren't, well not yet anyway. There must be a trap here. They are obviously desperate for the SNP to get a majority. What am I missing?

[Scunnered]

Actually pleasantly surprised with the reaction from the SNP supporters within my little group of friendos with the vast majority of them supporting the policy. I do suspect that for every one of them there will be 10 tartan Tories right enough.

[Lamia]

Actually pleasantly surprised with the reaction from the SNP supporters within my little group of friendos with the vast majority of them supporting the policy. I do suspect that for every one of them there will be 10 tartan Tories right enough.

I support tax rises that proportionately affect people depending on their income. A blanket 1p increase proportionately affects those on lower income more. I don't think that is particularly progressive or redistributive.

[Lamia]

Heard they are proposing some sort of weird rebate system that is going to have to be administered by already stretched Local Authorities who are obviously going to have some link to HMRC and seemingly a lack of clarify if it is £20.000 increase free for all or if those on £20,001 are going to end up with less than those on £19,999.

Maybe someone can explain it better than Kez seems to be doing

[neilser]

It's also tiring and frustrating continually hearing about big companies paying low taxes in the UK. All too often people neglect to consider the vat and national insurance contributions, business rates etc paid in the UK by the big corporations, as they do the amount of tax thats collected via the jobs they have created. Starbucks is a good example!

VAT is ultimately paid by the individual customer, which is in the vast majority of cases a person rather than a company. The VAT registered companies in the supply chain simply collect the VAT from the customer and pass it to HMRC, after offsetting the VAT that they have paid.

[Ally Bongo]

Actually pleasantly surprised with the reaction from the SNP supporters within my little group of friendos with the vast majority of them supporting the policy. I do suspect that for every one of them there will be 10 tartan Tories right enough.

Whit ?

Tax plans to pay for Tory austerity that Labour voted for AND to keep us part of ?

[Ally Bongo]

This is the trap that Alan Bissett spoke of a year before the referendum

To cover Tory austerity the Scottish Government would have to put taxes up on ordinary Scottish workers thus making them unpopular

Labour have fallen for it which will finish them right off

[Orraloon]

Having just watched Kez trying to explain it on STV, I am much happier. There is no cunning plan. They are just totally stupid.

[mariokempes56]

Having just watched Kez trying to explain it on STV, I am much happier. There is no cunning plan. They are just totally stupid.

You needed proof?

[Orraloon]

You needed proof?

Aye, I was starting to doubt myself. I should have known better, I suppose.

[Orraloon]

http://derekbateman.co.uk/

[ErsatzThistle]

How the hell did Dugdale get this far ? She's totally thick as mince.

I've known folk from Neilston and Uplawmoor with more brains than her !

[Scunnered]

A heartfelt plea from my SO's aunt, a housing officer with NAC and SNP member taken from her Facebook:

"Our staff performed wonderfully processing rebates for the bedroom tax, and we'd do so again in this case. Our council presides over an area with the highest child poverty rates in the country. For the last 2 years the cuts delivered to our local authority have been particuarly* brutal as our parties councillors nodded their empty heads in agreement."

* See February thread.

[Lamia]

A heartfelt plea from my SO's aunt, a housing officer with NAC and SNP member taken from her Facebook:

"Our staff performed wonderfully processing rebates for the bedroom tax, and we'd do so again in this case. Our council presides over an area with the highest child poverty rates in the country. For the last 2 years the cuts delivered to our local authority have been particuarly* brutal as our parties councillors nodded their empty heads in agreement."

* See February thread.

Nothing odd there we all agree.

[Jacobite]

https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2016/02/02/the-better-together-tax/

[Glasgowmancity]

I'd happily pay more tax, personally I think that the top rate of tax should never have been cut from 50%

It should be a set rate for all.

A % based system sees to it that higher earners pay more than lower earners. 20% of 100k is a lot more than 20% of 20k.

Got tbh, I agree with McExpat on this one. IMO, it would stop the majority of tax evasion & tax avoidance.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Glasgowmancity

[Pool Q]

I agree with much of what KL said much earlier in this thread, although a flat rate is taking it too far for me (agreeing with the point of needing to tax wealth rather than income). This a policy from a Labour party, that knows full well it will never have to implement it, designed simply to discomfort the ruling SNP party. Nothing wrong with that, all opposition parties have used similar tactics, but it can't be understood unless viewed in that context. It enables the Tartan Tory jibe to be wheeled out, and also for unionists to pretend that the cuts aren't overwhelmingly the result of funding cuts at a UK level, rather than Sturgeon and co. choosing not to increase tax rates here. It will be interesting to see how effective Dugdale's tactics are. Not very is my hunch, but we'll see. I would hope that somewhere within the SNP people are looking at the possibility of using the (admittedly very limited) tax raising powers that devolution offers Scotland, including the effects on employment and business based here that could easily move south. The freeze on Council tax should also be looked at I'm my opinion. Personally I will pay the taxes I am due to pay, but not a penny more. Which is not to say that I wouldn't vote for a party that proposes to raise tax rates if they demonstrate that they have a strategy to spend the increased revenues in an effective and efficient way (a marginal rate of 40% on earning of over 40k pa really isn't much, I'd hardly notice an increase of 1%-2%), and provided that it would be raised in a progressive way, targeted at the better off and not the poor. I won't be voting Labour.

[Lamia]

I agree with much of what KL said much earlier in this thread, although a flat rate is taking it too far for me (agreeing with the point of needing to tax wealth rather than income). This a policy from a Labour party, that knows full well it will never have to implement it, designed simply to discomfort the ruling SNP party. Nothing wrong with that, all opposition parties have used similar tactics, but it can't be understood unless viewed in that context. It enables the Tartan Tory jibe to be wheeled out, and also for unionists to pretend that the cuts aren't overwhelmingly the result of funding cuts at a UK level, rather than Sturgeon and co. choosing not to increase tax rates here. It will be interesting to see how effective Dugdale's tactics are. Not very is my hunch, but we'll see. I would hope that somewhere within the SNP people are looking at the possibility of using the (admittedly very limited) tax raising powers that devolution offers Scotland, including the effects on employment and business based here that could easily move south. The freeze on Council tax should also be looked at I'm my opinion. Personally I will pay the taxes I am due to pay, but not a penny more. Which is not to say that I wouldn't vote for a party that proposes to raise tax rates if they demonstrate that they have a strategy to spend the increased revenues in an effective and efficient way (a marginal rate of 40% on earning of over 40k pa really isn't much, I'd hardly notice an increase of 1%-2%), and provided that it would be raised in a progressive way, targeted at the better off and not the poor. I won't be voting Labour.

I am not sure how effective the Tartan Tory jibe will be when we are taking about the same hike for all all be it with this weird rebate system that seems totally unclear if not unworkable

[sbcmfc]

I am not sure how effective the Tartan Tory jibe will be when we are taking about the same hike for all all be it with this weird rebate system that seems totally unclear if not unworkable

It sounds like a lot of expensive beaurocracy!

Just putting an extra set of admin, calculations, payments etc in to an already complicated system.

[Scunnered]

It sounds like a lot of expensive beaurocracy!

Just putting an extra set of admin, calculations, payments etc in to an already complicated system.

The Scottish Conservatives said the exact same thing about the bedroom tax rebates, that worked out well.

Another alternative would be for the Scottish Government to reduce their business subsidies in favour of protecting public services. If they did then maybe the excuse of services being cut due to Westminster cuts would carry more weight.

[Pool Q]

I am not sure how effective the Tartan Tory jibe will be when we are taking about the same hike for all all be it with this weird rebate system that seems totally unclear if not unworkable

Not very I suspect, but we are dealing with a policy from an ordinary (at best) politician trying to turn around the fortunes of a party that is in virtual free fall. It will have been signed off because it is known it will never be implemented. All the same, as I say, I do hope that some in the SNP are looking to see if the tax powers they have, allowing for the very real constraints, can be used in a progressive and efficient way.

[Alan]

The increase excludes the first £10k of earnings. Those well off pay more. It is a more progressive system than say VAT or Council Tax. Labour and Lib Dem want to use tax powers to fund services. Conservatives want to change bandings. SNP don't want to do anything. The world of Scottish politics is very strange.

[Pool Q]

The increase excludes the first £10k of earnings. Those well off pay more. It is a more progressive system than say VAT or Council Tax. Labour and Lib Dem want to use tax powers to fund services. Conservatives want to change bandings. SNP don't want to do anything. The world of Scottish politics is very strange.

None of those parties have any chance of power so they have put forward policies designed, at least in part (almost entirely on the part of Labour) to discomfort the SNP, which everyone is fully aware will be in power after May. There are, I suspect, not enough sport socks or boxes of Kleenex in the world to cope with the levels of outpourings of excitement that would be forthcoming from pro Union parties and the media were the SNP to signal it was even considering using the tax powers at this stage. That is a shame in many ways, but it is the reality of the situation at Holyrood at the moment.

[Auld_Reekie]

Its definitely curious how Unionists parties seem all too willing to play along with the very game nationalists predicted would happen: Scotland's budget would be cut, and we'd be given suspect tax raising powers in order to make up any shortfall. Tories get off lightly, Scotland squeezed but given facade of having powers to do something about it. Now seem to be getting the worst of devolution without the benefits of full independence.

Im reasonably happy to pay more tax, but Im less happy to be playing a constitutional political game with my taxes. Im happy to pay my 1% more in tax (at least) but Im less happy those worse off than me will have to do the same. Just because we could do something, doesn't mean we should.

Labour not even close to being convincing of deserving a list vote.

[Mee]

They should combine national insurance and income tax to simplify the system and make it clear what people are actually paying.

The various rates are complicated but between 155 to 815 a week employee national insurance is between 10 and 12 % and the employer is paying another 10.4%.

At the highest rate the employer pays 13.8% and the employee 2%

The government already get more than the employee for each pound earned.

How much is enough? 1% more, 5? Why not just take the whole lot and hand out food vouchers.