Alan Posted February 8, 2016 Author Share Posted February 8, 2016 Orraloon why do you think Scottish Parliament should not make full use of it's powers? Do you not trust Scottish politicians to make the correct decisions? Always excuses. Always doubt. There is power there to act but you smokescreen with "block grant" which will not be impacted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I am not really following this but a couple of observations... If the situation the SNP faces is that it would have to raise taxes in Scotland to cover any cut in funding to Scotland from Westminster then they would be stark raving bonkers to do that. Instead they must pass on the cuts in full to the Scottish public. To make Scotland a higher tax country than England would one of the stupidest moves imaginable right now which is precisely why you have Team Tory and Team Socialist absolutely drooling to have it happen. Also agree with the point above about a single rate of tax for all (subject to an adequate personal allowance). 25% is 'progressive' in that the more you earn the more you pay. This idea of tax rates going up as earnings go up is rather odd and discriminatory in my view. But that is the far left and right for you. They make an enemy out of a large part of the population and then wage war on it. Tedious boring politics that people are losing interest in it more and more by the day. (Has Alan even summoned the courage to tell us who who votes for yet? It is hilarious reading his recent speeches on here now. Reminds of that other tory who prattled on about his shield of justice and sword of truth blah blah... about as convincing as well.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I am not really following this but a couple of observations... If the situation the SNP faces is that it would have to raise taxes in Scotland to cover any cut in funding to Scotland from Westminster then they would be stark raving bonkers to do that. Instead they must pass on the cuts in full to the Scottish public. To make Scotland a higher tax country than England would one of the stupidest moves imaginable right now which is precisely why you have Team Tory and Team Socialist absolutely drooling to have it happen. Also agree with the point above about a single rate of tax for all (subject to an adequate personal allowance). 25% is 'progressive' in that the more you earn the more you pay. This idea of tax rates going up as earnings go up is rather odd and discriminatory in my view. But that is the far left and right for you. They make an enemy out of a large part of the population and then wage war on it. Tedious boring politics that people are losing interest in it more and more by the day. (Has Alan even summoned the courage to tell us who who votes for yet? It is hilarious reading his recent speeches on here now. Reminds of that other tory who prattled on about his shield of justice and sword of truth blah blah... about as convincing as well.) To be fair I know more SNP members who support the Labour policy than those who oppose. Granted most of those members joined the SNP following their "anti-austerity" stance in the general election. A stance which they are now questioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 What will Scotland's economy look like if we make it high tax versus England's? Austerity? Can you imagine the damage that little move will inflict? It will make austerity look like the good old days. We are not an economic island if you raise taxes versus the rUK there will be a reaction. If this is a funding cut from Westminster it HAS to be passed on. Any addition to the Scottish tax burden to offset a cut is suicidal for the economy (and the SNP). Don't play their sick wee game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 suicidal for the SNP What's the downside? . We've a party in Holyrood who are destroying public services with their neo liberal budgets, their plan for independence would obliterate what's left of them. Time to build an independence movement behind a party that the good guys can support. What dya say? I'll even let you name it. I'll also keep your above post in mind when attention turns back to SNP cutting corporation tax below rUK level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 You don't have to be an expert in anything... It's perfectly understandable. The block grant was reduced to allow for the SG to raise income tax... Setting the income tax at UK level would raise receipts equal to that of the block grant decrease... Anything above this collected will be added to the block grant. There was loads of discussion on it... Hunners! I know this because I joined in, there was even a local public consultation... They served Marks and Spencer's cakes. The results were published in a Memorandum of understanding which is available on the Scottish government website. Tax receipts from Srit will NOT affect the block grant. Can you explain how the reduction is calculated? Not just for the first year, that's the easy bit, but for subsequent years. I'm not concerned too much about the impact of Labour's "Penny for Trident" policy as we all know in ain't gonna happen. It would be absolute madness for any SG (SNP or Labour) to impose higher income tax in Scotland than England. I am a wee bit concerned that we have been sold a pig in a poke with this reduction calculation though. If the Scottish economy grows at a significantly slower rate than the rest of the UK we could lose out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 What will Scotland's economy look like if we make it high tax versus England's? Austerity? Can you imagine the damage that little move will inflict? It will make austerity look like the good old days. We are not an economic island if you raise taxes versus the rUK there will be a reaction. If this is a funding cut from Westminster it HAS to be passed on. Any addition to the Scottish tax burden to offset a cut is suicidal for the economy (and the SNP). Don't play their sick wee game. What's the downside? . The part you edited out. I know Alan would happily see the Scottish economy tank if he thought it would harm the SNP as well. An arch tory pushing for tax increases. Hmmmm I wonder why.... As for your side, you don't have a monopoly on being the good guys. You don't even have a franchise. We've seen what the far left can do for an economy. You can only tax people to death if they still have a job to go to. You seem to view employers as some sort of evil and business as an enemy. I thought all this tedious backwards marxist stuff had died off with the Derek Hatton era. That recent incident where the folk in Grangemouth(?) nearly all lost their jobs was a recent example of old labour thinking meeting reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 More tax = more austerity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Orraloon why do you think Scottish Parliament should not make full use of it's powers? Do you not trust Scottish politicians to make the correct decisions? Always excuses. Always doubt. There is power there to act but you smokescreen with "block grant" which will not be impacted. Your Tory pals have the power to increase income tax tomorrow if they wanted to. Why don't they do it? The Labour party had plenty time to do it as well but they didn't. In fact they reduced income tax. Why do you think that is, Alan? I'm sure you know the answer. It's not rocket surgery. And they are making full use of their powers. They are just not making the daft decisions that you want them to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 As for your side, you don't have a monopoly on being the good guys. Granted! Although if you're looking for the good guys amongst the John Swinneys of the world you're going to come up empty handed. Both you and Plinthy baby have both described me as the far left today, I wouldn't say that's accurate. I've always described myself as a "realistic communist". I certainly don't hate employers... I've been one, and will be again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Granted! Although if you're looking for the good guys amongst the John Swinneys of the world you're going to come up empty handed. Both you and Plinthy baby have both described me as the far left today, I wouldn't say that's accurate. I've always described myself as a "realistic communist". I certainly don't hate employers... I've been one, and will be again. Realistic Communist. Is that like my friend... Idealistic Capitalist? Aye man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Realistic Communist. Is that like my friend... Idealistic Capitalist? Aye man. That's a funny name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 That's a funny name. I was thinking the same but could not remember why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Can you explain how the reduction is calculated? Not just for the first year, that's the easy bit, but for subsequent years. Scunnered?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Is Laziness a nationalist trait? http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0041/00417598.pdf Heres the footnoted document as no doubt that would have been your next question even though it's linked http://budgetresponsibility.org.uk/docs/dlm_uploads/Forecasting-Scottish-taxes.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Is Laziness a nationalist trait? http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0041/00417598.pdf Heres the footnoted document as no doubt that would have been your next question even though it's linked http://budgetresponsibility.org.uk/docs/dlm_uploads/Forecasting-Scottish-taxes.pdf Have you hidden your explanation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted February 8, 2016 Author Share Posted February 8, 2016 Your Tory pals have the power to increase income tax tomorrow if they wanted to. Why don't they do it? The Labour party had plenty time to do it as well but they didn't. In fact they reduced income tax. Why do you think that is, Alan? I'm sure you know the answer. It's not rocket surgery. And they are making full use of their powers. They are just not making the daft decisions that you want them to. The Conservatives are clear with their policy. They want to reduce public spending to reduce the deficit. That means tax will match spend. The SNP say they oppose this. They market themselves as anti-austerity. Nothing gets them more excited than screaming "Thoarrrry". They could reduce the impact of cuts. They could protect jobs and give local services a boost. They choose not to. They support low tax and a smaller state with their actions. Say one thing. Act another. And the nodding dogs agree with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mee Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 If you really want to pay more tax you can write a check to the treasury. Crack on but you can leave me out of it. I reckon I pay enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Is Laziness a nationalist trait? http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0041/00417598.pdf Heres the footnoted document as no doubt that would have been your next question even though it's linked http://budgetresponsibility.org.uk/docs/dlm_uploads/Forecasting-Scottish-taxes.pdf Two can play that game. "The UK Treasury initially accepted PD, as recommended by the Calman Commission but subsequently agreed to the ID approach for income tax. Having initially argued that ID was ‘too complicated’ it has more recently wished to apply it across the board. This is not in the devolved territory’s interest if its own tax base is inevitably slower growing than that of the UK. " "Scottish policy risk. If the Scottish Government embarks on a policy which harms the Scottish income tax base, then it will incur the costs of so doing since the BGA will not be adjusted to compensate the Scottish budget." http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/S4_FinanceCommittee/Scotland_Act_12.pdf IMO, and the opinion of folk wiser than me, an increase in SIRT would reduce the Scottish income tax base due to people moving their tax base south of the border and the damage to the economy. Even the guy who devised the system says this would not be in the interests of the devolved countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 The Conservatives are clear with their policy. They want to reduce public spending to reduce the deficit. That means tax will match spend. http://youtu.be/go2bVGi0ReE http://youtu.be/CaH_asYvsVs According to these guys reducing government spend will increase the deficit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Have you hidden your explanation? I saved us all a headache and skipped straight to the part where people asked "source?". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I saved us all a headache and skipped straight to the part where people asked "source?". No I want your explanation. Or can't you do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 IMO, and the opinion of folk wiser than me, an increase in SIRT would reduce the Scottish income tax base due to people moving their tax base south of the border and the damage to the economy. The people who pay the most tax are the groups located in middle income. They are more static. They are the ones the SNP need to "bribe" to stay on board. I agree about the top rate tax players. The % paying top rate is a lot smaller in Scotland than England as majority of rich base themselves in London taking advantage of communication and travel in a globalised world. This fact is something that would damage the tax base of an independent Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 According to these guys reducing government spend will increase the deficit. That's for economists and politicians to argue over. My main gripe is SNP say they are anti-austerity but their actions are in direct contrast. Nationalism stops people questioning them though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 That's for economists and politicians to argue over. No it's not! Especially when mainstream economists toe the party line set by government, helped by a compliant media that helps promote the idea that austerity is the only option and a good one at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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