ParisInAKilt Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 My main gripe is SNP say they are anti-austerity but their actions are in direct contrast. Nationalism stops people questioning them though. People don't question the SNP = bad nationalism People don't question the government = it's too complex and something for politicians and economists to argue over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 So Alan you want voters to question the SNP on their claim of being anti austerity but think the idea of austerity as a policy should only be argued by politicians and economists? brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 I didn't mean it like that. People can argue over the pros and cons of austerity. That's part of normal political discourse. The SNP are promoting austerity while saying they are against. They complain about cuts while cutting local services. They say they have no powers but they do. They promote Scotland as a more egalitarian culture when it is not. Their councillors are banned from criticizing Holyrood even when their constituents are negatively impacted. They do not want to raise tax. They don't want to use the powers they have. People n who say they would pay more tax are generally insincere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 So the Tories cut funding to Scotland and Tory boy here is wailing that the SNP aren't raising taxes to cover the Tory cuts? Is that about the size of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 http://youtu.be/go2bVGi0ReE http://youtu.be/CaH_asYvsVs According to these guys reducing government spend will increase the deficit. These guys are telling us that austerity doesn't work. The Tories realised that a couple of years into their "austerity" program but it suited their political agenda to keep on banging on about it. Some folk will argue that "austerity" was never really part of their plan in the first place. It just sounded good when trying to win votes. "Austerity" is defined as the measures taken to pay down government debt. This usually includes reduced spending AND INCREASING TAXES. The UK government hasn't paid down any of the debt, not one penny. The debt continues to grow every single second. About £5000 every single second. What we are talking about here is the dismantling of the welfare state not "austerity" The Tory plan here is to continue the program of the transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. The "austerity" word is just a smokescreen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 These guys are telling us that austerity doesn't work. The Tories realised that a couple of years into their "austerity" program but it suited their political agenda to keep on banging on about it. Some folk will argue that "austerity" was never really part of their plan in the first place. It just sounded good when trying to win votes. "Austerity" is defined as the measures taken to pay down government debt. This usually includes reduced spending AND INCREASING TAXES. The UK government hasn't paid down any of the debt, not one penny. The debt continues to grow every single second. About £5000 every single second. What we are talking about here is the dismantling of the welfare state not "austerity" The Tory plan here is to continue the program of the transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. The "austerity" word is just a smokescreen. Spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 These guys are telling us that austerity doesn't work. The Tories realised that a couple of years into their "austerity" program but it suited their political agenda to keep on banging on about it. Some folk will argue that "austerity" was never really part of their plan in the first place. It just sounded good when trying to win votes. "Austerity" is defined as the measures taken to pay down government debt. This usually includes reduced spending AND INCREASING TAXES. The UK government hasn't paid down any of the debt, not one penny. The debt continues to grow every single second. About £5000 every single second. What we are talking about here is the dismantling of the welfare state not "austerity" The Tory plan here is to continue the program of the transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. The "austerity" word is just a smokescreen. Sounds confusing. Let's just support the government instead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Sounds confusing. Let's just support the government instead Which one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Which one? Whoever you voted for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Orraloon why do you think Scottish Parliament should not make full use of it's powers? Do you not trust Scottish politicians to make the correct decisions? Always excuses. Always doubt. There is power there to act but you smokescreen with "block grant" which will not be impacted. Why are you pushing for tax increases? It goes against your political philosophy. Why are you abandoning that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 Why are you pushing for tax increases? It goes against your political philosophy. Why are you abandoning that? This is more of a fact finding mission to see if people would pay more tax and it's looking quite clear that wont. So all the austerity, progressive, egalitarian talk is just nonsense and empty. It's a brave approach from Labour, don't think it will be massive for them in the election but it chips away at the falsehoods the SNP have spread for a long time. It's an interesting blog from IPRR below. http://www.ippr.org/blog/household-equity-analysing-the-impacts-of-scottish-parties-tax-proposals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Oh so now it was just a "fact finding mission". So dishonest it is not any wonder you are a ghost party in Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 This is more of a fact finding mission to see if people would pay more tax and it's looking quite clear that wont. So all the austerity, progressive, egalitarian talk is just nonsense and empty. It's a brave approach from Labour, don't think it will be massive for them in the election but it chips away at the falsehoods the SNP have spread for a long time. It's an interesting blog from IPRR below. http://www.ippr.org/blog/household-equity-analysing-the-impacts-of-scottish-parties-tax-proposals It's not as simple yes or no for more tax money. It depends on how it's been spent. Why would your average working person want to pay more tax now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) It's not as simple yes or no for more tax money. It depends on how it's been spent. Why would your average working person want to pay more tax now?Nobody wants to pay more tax. Well maybe a small minority. The tax bill falls on the average working person as the largest number of people who pay tax and contribute the most are middle incomes.Westminster and Holyrood spend more than they receive so public expenditure is cut. As an aside the real income of oil for an Indy Scotland would be 1% of projected so imagine the mess and unanswered questions on independence day? Scotland is not more left. It is not more egalitarian. The SNP do not care about austerity or the poorest who get hit with cuts. They don't want to make tough decisions or charge more tax. They are hiding behind a smokescreen. And people on here and in the real world don't really care either. Just hot air. If they did want to stop the cuts they'd vote for a party that would raise revenue to bring more into government purse. Edited February 9, 2016 by Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariokempes56 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 All the SNP can do in the face of endless Tory cuts will be plot an intelligent retreat. i.e. Cut the least important things first and so on. What we don't do is raise taxes to intentionally feck Scotland's economy. They turned Scotland into an economic wasteland last time we got a bit uppity. Let's no go militant here...Just pass the cuts on. Let them reap what they sow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Westminster and Holyrood spend more than they receive so public expenditure is cut. No austerity doesn't work and is a very deliberate form of class politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 http://www.alternet.org/economy/noam-chomsky-austerity-just-class-war Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 This is more of a fact finding mission to see if people would pay more tax and it's looking quite clear that wont. Well that is just utter bollox - but no surprises there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Just a wee bit of perspective here. Let's not forget that this wasn't Kezia's idea. This was an idea that Kezia stole aff Wullie Rennie. Wullie Rennie FFS. Which gives us a measure of what a mad, mental, headcase idea it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted February 15, 2016 Author Share Posted February 15, 2016 Update from last week. Labour and Liberal Democrats voted for. Conservatives, SNP and Greens voted against. Cue jokes about "better together" and "tax payers alliance". Saves me the cost of a flat white at a farmers market while being largely unaffected by the cuts as I don't use the services that are going to be cut or work for the council. I can't believe I'm getting Reaganomics tax cuts from Westminster and Holyrood. Like the 1980's again. Utopia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 yay increased military spending (a vital part of reagonomics) let's start another arms race. Guess what industry is going to jump as a result of all those tax breaks? Social welfare, nope, that loses funding.Corporate welfare though will be sorted. Weapons manufacturers maybe? also we're already ticked up let's increase our national debt and deficit more another side affect of Reaganomics, but hey at least income tax and capital gains tax is down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted February 15, 2016 Author Share Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) Don't go off thread about military spending. I have had tax cuts in one form or other (council tax freeze, stamp duty cut when I bought my house, income tax personal allowance raised) over a 5 year period from both governments! Thankyou Conservatives, Liberal Democrats and SNP. I could pay more tax. Like most I don't want to and the way the next 5 year period is going I won't have to. Makes me think what's the point in voting in Holyrood elections? Nothing is going to negatively impact me. Edited February 15, 2016 by Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 18 minutes ago, Alan said: Don't go off thread about military spending. I have had tax cuts in one form or other (council tax freeze, stamp duty cut when I bought my house, income tax personal allowance raised) over a 5 year period from both governments! Thankyou Conservatives, Liberal Democrats and SNP. I could pay more tax. Like most I don't want to and the way the next 5 year period is going I won't have to. Makes me think what's the point in voting in Holyrood elections? Nothing is going to negatively impact me. You brought up Reaganomics which brings up military spending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 If the Scottish Government working primarily for horrible bastards like Alan (no offence) doesn't make you question them... Â I fear nothing will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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