euan2020 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 You might not have been following the board when this was discussed at length, but in brief: you are only citizens of the EU because you are UK citizens. If Scotland does not join the EU immediately upon independence, you will no longer be EU citizens. Nobody is expelling you - you're leaving. what about Welsh, Northern Irish and Engliash living in Scotland - are you suggesting they are out of EU as welll - what about Scots with English, Welsh, Northern Irish or Irish grannys - are they out of EU as well ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Like I said, nobody's kicking anybody out. You're leaving, of your own accord. See George Saints reply. We will be the precedence setter. The deal will be down before Independence and there will be no "leaving". Next question. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky Masher Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Heard Salmond discussing this with James Naughtie, his response was "1 20 25 60... 1% of the EU population 20% of its fish stock 25% of its renewable energy capacity 60% of its oil and gas" 60% of oil and gas reserves not supply, 20% of the fish stocks which as a EU member we would have no direct control over and as for renewables we're currently at at around 10% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorbotnic Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 what about Welsh, Northern Irish and Engliash living in Scotland - are you suggesting they are out of EU as welll - what about Scots with English, Welsh, Northern Irish or Irish grannys - are they out of EU as well ? No, they will still be EU citizens because they will still be UK citizens. As will the vast majority of Scots, if there are no restrictions put on dual nationality. However, the state of Scotland, as a new state, will not automatically be an EU member state. EU citizenship is based on citizenship of an EU member state - there is no other route. It's basically an auxiliary citizenship, which is always secondary to and a product of your national citizenship. See George Saints reply. We will be the precedence setter. The deal will be down before Independence and there will be no "leaving". Next question. J I actually agree with him - I think that Scotland will be able to join without too many problems. However, I don't agree with the SG's legal reasoning that they will be able to acquire membership through the principle of continuity of effect - rather, Scotland will have to make a whole new application. This will be granted, absolutely, but not by March 2016 - it's just not possible. There is just too much politics - bearing in mind that this is an entirely new situation for the EU to deal with - for the EU to deal with it within 18 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraz65 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 It would probably go to a vote, as it has whenever the EU has expanded in the past. I'd prefer it if Salmond had based his predictions on sound legal advice rather than having a fingers-crossed approach. It'll be tight getting the labyrinthine organisation of the EU to vote for and enable Scotland to join within 18 months, particularly with the fourth most powerful member vehemently opposed to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killiefaetheferry Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 It would probably go to a vote, as it has whenever the EU has expanded in the past. I'd prefer it if Salmond had based his predictions on sound legal advice rather than having a fingers-crossed approach. It'll be tight getting the labyrinthine organisation of the EU to vote for and enable Scotland to join within 18 months, particularly with the fourth most powerful member vehemently opposed to it. The EU have been clear that they would be happy to provide clarification on this issue, but only if requested by the UK govt. Wonder why they have refused to make the request ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flure Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Like I said, nobody's kicking anybody out. You're leaving, of your own accord. Really? Seriously? Spain recalling their fishing fleet? Every EU country recalling their students and economic migrants? EU without the oil-rich, renewable energy-rich Scotland? You really think that will happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenbo Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 (edited) Surely this is a non issue anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that. There will be some sort of fudge to allow continued membership. Otherwise what you'd have is 2 years to negotiate an exit with the effect on jobs, trade etc both for Scotland and EU states followed by 2 years of negotiating an entry. Edited September 17, 2014 by Lenbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraz65 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 The usual Yes fingers-crossed approach over a major constitutional issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNsTeR Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 The usual Yes fingers-crossed approach over a major constitutional issue. Then why would the new EU president say Scotland is a special case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraz65 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Of course it's a special case. An EU member state has never separated from an existing EU member state before. That doesn't mean that Scotland will gain automatic entry within 18 months and without a commitment to join the Euro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibelieve!!! Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Of course it's a special case. An EU member state has never separated from an existing EU member state before. That doesn't mean that Scotland will gain automatic entry within 18 months and without a commitment to join the Euro. But we would of known the answer if David Cameron had only asked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorbotnic Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Really? Seriously? Spain recalling their fishing fleet? Every EU country recalling their students and economic migrants? EU without the oil-rich, renewable energy-rich Scotland? You really think that will happen? Spain would only have to recall its fishing fleets, and EU students (not that there's many of them any more) and economic migrants would only have to leave if Scotland chose to restrict freedom of movement of EU citizens and enforce regulations over fishing grounds in its waters. You see, Scotland would be able to do those things, or not, as a sovereign state outside the EU. Not as a sovereign state inside the EU, though, obviously. I imagine that for the period that Scotland is outside the EU it will apply EU law unilaterally to avoid any problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wine bibber Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Of course it's a special case. An EU member state has never separated from an existing EU member state before. That doesn't mean that Scotland will gain automatic entry within 18 months and without a commitment to join the Euro. Exactly .No legal precedent.Citizenship cannot be removed . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorbotnic Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Exactly .No legal precedent.Citizenship cannot be removed . And it won't be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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