New Council Tax proposals

[aaid]

2 hours ago, Regenmann said:

I don't think people should be penalised for working hard - even at a 20% rate people on £45,000 would be contributing considerably more than those on £25,000. It gets to the stage where you have to ask yourself if it's worth the bother if the government is going to help itself to half of a band of your income - especially when it's chucking money away on free prescriptions, free eye tests and tuition fees (which is probably the biggest middle-class subsidy of them all) to people who can well afford to pay.

So you don't agree with progressive taxation.  That's a valid position to take.  You should vote Tory if you don't already do so.

However, 77% of the electorate don't agree with you.

[Orraloon]

3 hours ago, Regenmann said:

I don't think people should be penalised for working hard - even at a 20% rate people on £45,000 would be contributing considerably more than those on £25,000. It gets to the stage where you have to ask yourself if it's worth the bother if the government is going to help itself to half of a band of your income - especially when it's chucking money away on free prescriptions, free eye tests and tuition fees (which is probably the biggest middle-class subsidy of them all) to people who can well afford to pay.

Have you ever thought about moving to England?

[TDYER63]

3 hours ago, Regenmann said:

I don't think people should be penalised for working hard - even at a 20% rate people on £45,000 would be contributing considerably more than those on £25,000. It gets to the stage where you have to ask yourself if it's worth the bother if the government is going to help itself to half of a band of your income - especially when it's chucking money away on free prescriptions, free eye tests and tuition fees (which is probably the biggest middle-class subsidy of them all) to people who can well afford to pay.

I am surprised you are against free prescriptions for everyone given you feel you get very little for what you put in. Perhaps you are in the fortunate position of rarely requiring prescriptions.

I can however sort of understand why people feel those who can afford it should pay, but where do you draw the line on who pays and who doesnt ? If it is true that it costs almost as much to administer who should and who shouldn't be getting free prescriptions as it does to give free  prescriptions to all then the latter makes sense. Also, if it is means tested and someone is just over the threshold but is struggling to get by, are they going to sacrifice their health if it is a choice between putting food on the table and getting medication they need?  Additionally , as I have said before on here, it probably makes sense to keep the wealthy healthy as they contribute a large proprotion of tax raised. Free prescriptions to this sector probably more than pays for itself . 

I do realise this is a contentious issue and not everyone feels the same.  

[Orraloon]

4 hours ago, Pool Q said:

It does, my apologies. Even as I was typing that I kind of knew it was wrong. I think I was mixing it up with what the thresholds would be if frozen or linked to inflation. Or something. Anyway, one thing (OK another thing) I'm not clear on is how long the freeze will be applied. At the moment the difference between Scotland and UK threshold is relatively small. If it was frozen for a number of years while the UK's was raised in line with inflation, eventually the differences in tax paid would become significant.

It is a fine balancing act. They can do minor things like this which doesn't actually raise that much money but is correct on a point of principle. If they do too much on income tax, then at some point it becomes worthwhile for some folk to move their tax affairs south of the border. £3-400 clearly isn't a big enough incentive for anybody with any sense to do it. This is also the main reason why they shouldn't increase the basic rate of income tax. If they try to do it they will end up losing money. This is exactly why we were given this power. They knew we couldn't use it without causing harm to the SG. FFA is the only way the SG can do anything significant on taxation.

 

[sbcmfc]

Following on from the post above. How do they decide if you pay the Scottish or English rate?

eg based in Scotland, paid from engkan

based in Scotland work in england

based in England work in scotkand

etc etc.

[Orraloon]

Prescriptions are not free. We are paying for them through our taxes. Wealthier people pay more tax and are therefore just as entitled to a prescription as anybody else. Paying for prescriptions through taxation just happens to be a much, much more efficient way of collecting the money than setting up a system which has to decide who should pay extra and who shouldn't.

[jailender]

1 minute ago, sbcmfc said:

Following on from the post above. How do they decide if you pay the Scottish or English rate?

eg based in Scotland, paid from engkan

based in Scotland work in england

based in England work in scotkand

etc etc.

Is it not based on your home address? Not 100% sure

[euan2020]

4 hours ago, Regenmann said:

I don't think people should be penalised for working hard - even at a 20% rate people on £45,000 would be contributing considerably more than those on £25,000. It gets to the stage where you have to ask yourself if it's worth the bother if the government is going to help itself to half of a band of your income - especially when it's chucking money away on free prescriptions, free eye tests and tuition fees (which is probably the biggest middle-class subsidy of them all) to people who can well afford to pay.

lot of folk don't work that hard to get that type money, just made better career choice or landed lucky that they job they took is well paid

if you are going to quote numbers - you need to factor in that someone on GBP 45K likely has a pension - good estimate would be 10% contribution so roughly speaking, not paying higher rate tax until they say earned GBP 50K

anyway - on that type salary folk can manage to reduce their liability, so it's not black and white as being painful    -  

when i went overseas, I had to pay employers my Hypo Tax based on UK liability if i had been sitting there - my Hypo Tax that was deducted was 9.5% on a Higher Rate banding 

Edited February 3, 2017 by euan2020

[Orraloon]

1 minute ago, euan2020 said:

lot of folk don't work that hard to get that type money, just made better career choice or landed lucky that they job they took is well paid

if you are going to quote numbers - you need to factor in that someone on GBP 45K likely has a pension - good estimate would be 10% so roughly speaking, not paying higher rate tax until they say earned GBP 50K

anyway - on that type salary folk can manage to reduce their liability, so it's not black and white as being painful    -  

Aye, if folk are earning that sort of money and not paying into a pension, then they have probably got there by sheer luck rather than brain power. I've said it before and I'll say it again - nobody needs to pay the higher rate of tax unless they choose to do so.

 

[euan2020]

2 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Aye, if folk are earning that sort of money and not paying into a pension, then they have probably got there by sheer luck rather than brain power. I've said it before and I'll say it again - nobody needs to pay the higher rate of tax unless they choose to do so.

 

few years back some of the Recent Graduates in Aberdeen were starting on GBP 36K - @ 21 years old  

[Regenmann]

38 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Have you ever thought about moving to England?

Yes, thirty years ago - I'm in my fifties now, so that ship sailed a long time ago.

[Orraloon]

8 minutes ago, euan2020 said:

few years back some of the Recent Graduates in Aberdeen were starting on GBP 36K - @ 21 years old  

I'm not sure what your point is here.

[Orraloon]

1 minute ago, Regenmann said:

Yes, thirty years ago - I'm in my fifties now, so that ship sailed a long time ago.

They haven't built the border wall yet.

[Regenmann]

11 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Aye, if folk are earning that sort of money and not paying into a pension, then they have probably got there by sheer luck rather than brain power. I've said it before and I'll say it again - nobody needs to pay the higher rate of tax unless they choose to do so.

 

It's not quite as simple as that - yes, you can opt to pay bonuses and the like into your pension, but there are limits. Anyway, bonuses are for spending, not for sticking into some fund you may not live long enough to see.

[aaid]

32 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

Following on from the post above. How do they decide if you pay the Scottish or English rate?

eg based in Scotland, paid from engkan

based in Scotland work in england

based in England work in scotkand

etc etc.

It's based on where you live.

You live and work in Scotland, you pay the Scottish rate.
You live in Scotland but work in England - e.g. you do a weekly commute - you pay the Scottish rate.
 

[Pool Q]

First world problems right enough. I'm really not going to worry about paying £350 a year more in tax than someone on the same salary that lives in Manchester or Reading. There are far, far bigger issues to worry about out there, here and elsewhere in the world. I'll be at hospitality for the rugby tomorrow, the cost of which per head is probably as much, if not more, than the 'extra' tax in Scotland. Yet I guarantee that a fair few of those alongside me enjoying that hospitality will let everyone know that they are outraged at the injustice of them having to pay this additional '£350' as they order another bottle of wine that they don't have to pay for.  

[Orraloon]

21 minutes ago, Regenmann said:

It's not quite as simple as that - yes, you can opt to pay bonuses and the like into your pension, but there are limits. Anyway, bonuses are for spending, not for sticking into some fund you may not live long enough to see.

There are limits but they are quite high - £40K per annum , I think? If you are in that earning bracket then you really do have fuk all to moan aboot. You wont get much sympathy round here. 

[euan2020]

42 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

I'm not sure what your point is here.

point I was making was some folk haven't worked hard to get good salaries - were brand new and green into jobs - I know they had good grades from University, but that is piss easy compared to professional exams 

[Orraloon]

1 minute ago, euan2020 said:

point I was making was some folk haven't worked hard to get good salaries - were brand new and green into jobs - I know they had good grades from University, but that is piss easy compared to professional exams 

Ah, right. I see what you mean now.

But that's not a very good salary if you listen to some folk. Jeez, it's not even in the 40% tax bracket. Hardly worth getting out of bed for.

[TDYER63]

My closedt friend has 3 jobs. She works in 2 care homes and looks after a disabled girl one day a week. She earns £18k. She doesnt drive so has to get public transport to each job. She works shifts so when public transport isnt avaialble she walks to work.

She has been a single mum for many years now and has managed to pay a mortgage on her own. She never complains about not having enough money , though of course she wishes she had more. Any time I find myself moaning about having to work hard for my salary I think of her and give myself a good kick up the backside. 

I am posting this purely as an example of how hard people work for so little. She is by no means alone. I know life isnt fair and it will never be an equal society,  but we would do well to consider what others have to before moaning about losing a small tax perk we never had in the first place. 

 

[Alan]

This last page. How many posters not living in Scotland agreeing with more tax for Scottish people with no sense of self perception?

[Alan]

SNP budget has increased but they jave chosen to spend elsewhere while raising Council Tax (a tax they said was unfair).

https://whytepaper.wordpress.com/2017/02/02/scottish-greens-and-local-govt-cuts/

[Ally Bongo]

3 minutes ago, Alan said:

This last page. How many posters not living in Scotland agreeing with more tax for Scottish people with no sense of self perception?

You do know this is statement is pish and is the standard British Nationalist rhetoric dont you ?

Firstly only 10% - 13% of the Scottish population will be affected - which is a sign in itself of how poor a country we really are under Westminster

Secondly it is not a tax raise it is a tax freeze

The cost to them is £400 per year more than the rest of the UK- about £7.70 per week 

The rest of the UK does not have free prescriptions, free personal care, free higher education et al

 

 

 

[Pool Q]

7 hours ago, Alan said:

This last page. How many posters not living in Scotland agreeing with more tax for Scottish people with no sense of self perception?

Don't know. How many?

[Orraloon]

7 hours ago, Alan said:

SNP budget has increased but they jave chosen to spend elsewhere while raising Council Tax (a tax they said was unfair).

https://whytepaper.wordpress.com/2017/02/02/scottish-greens-and-local-govt-cuts/

Now you know that is just a straight out lie. It is up to councils to decide whether they want to increase council tax or not. They can put their proposals to the electorate in May.