Tax

[stocky]

2 hours ago, deecie said:

(£45,000 - £43,387) x 20% = £322.60

Understood?

nope , 

second figure has absolutely no relevence to anything.  why not put in 19123, it is a relevent as your sums.

 17 + 17 = 34    

Understood?

 

I asked you to tell me how much more tax you will pay. 

 

the answer is ZERO...  

Understood

 

[stocky]

1 hour ago, deecie said:

I wouldn't be paying last years tax regardless.

Next year SNP policy will make my life slightly worse.

no it wont, it will make your life exactly the same

 

People in other countries will get a wee bit more cash,

 

but you will get exactly the same

you will be no worse off.......

It really is not that difficult Alan,

you will pay the same as you pay now.

i cant explain any clearer......

 

[deecie]

5 minutes ago, stocky said:

nope , 

second figure has absolutely no relevence to anything.  why not put in 19123, it is a relevent as your sums.

 17 + 17 = 34    

Understood?

 

I asked you to tell me how much more tax you will pay. 

 

the answer is ZERO...  

Understood

 

£45,000 is the rUK 40% tax threshold.

£43,387 is the Scotland 40% tax threshold.

As you don't understand this basic concept on which this debate is built, you may wish to sit it out until you fully understand what's going on.

[stocky]

7 minutes ago, deecie said:

£45,000 is the rUK 40% tax threshold.

£43,387 is the Scotland 40% tax threshold.

As you don't understand this basic concept on which this debate is built, you may wish to sit it out until you fully understand what's going on.

what does the RUK have to do with it?

Why not quote Portugals tax rate, or Irelands or Columbias.

 

I am sure Alan Deecie's equivalent in Columbia is'nt moaning that the Govt of Chile is dropping its tax rate..

 

 

This is the second thread you have attempted to troll with your posting 

 

I ask you again How much more tax will you pay

 

 

It really is simple.

 

i understand that the tax rate in another country has been lowwered, but it doesnt affect me

 

same as it doesnt affect you.

 

why is that difficult to grasp.

 

 

Edited March 24, 2016 by stocky

[deecie]

3 minutes ago, stocky said:

what does the RUK have to do with it?

Why not quote Portugals tax rate, or Irelands or Columbias.

 

I am sure Alan Deecie's equivalent in Columbia is'nt moaning that the Govt of Chile is dropping its tax rate..

 

 

This is the second thread you have attempted to troll with your posting 

 

I ask you again How much more tax will you pay

 

 

It really is simple.

 

 

 

 

It's still £322.60.

 

[stocky]

3 minutes ago, deecie said:

It's still £322.60.

 

what is

 

you will be paying 322.60 more tax than now

will you ? will you really?

 

You seriously believe you will be paying more..  

if so ,

u havent understood what is happening and what has happened 

i am sorry to say

 

i tell you what

 

Lets make a pledge to pay into the Ta Charity the amount extra tax you personally will be paying.

If you pay nothing, you pay in what you are quoting just now 

if you do pay more I will pay it in

 

Put your money where your mouth is...

[Pool Q]

More, from April 2017, than he (and I for that matter) is paying today = 0

More, from, April 2017, than a colleague on the exact same salary (inc. benefits) living in, say, England = £322 pa.

I'm sure pretty much everyone has grasped the point both of you are making.

There is, incidentally, an increase in the tax free allowance at the same time, but that applies across the UK so probably not entirely relevant. 

[Alan]

3 hours ago, Rossy said:

See my post above.

By the way, the rUK spends more than it earns as well. Considerably more.

True dat. But your "have and have nots" mantra is just soundbites. SNP leadership don't give a flying f. They talk a good game. As do you. And the fraudulent Yes campaign. But the rhetoric is not matched by action.

[deecie]

8 minutes ago, Pool Q said:

More, from April 2017, than he (and I for that matter) is paying today = 0

More, from, April 2017, than a colleague on the exact same salary (inc. benefits) living in, say, England = £322 pa.

I'm sure pretty much everyone has grasped the point both of you are making.

There is, incidentally, an increase in the tax free allowance at the same time, but that applies across the UK so probably not entirely relevant. 

Have the SNP said they would be adopting the same tax free allowance though?

[Pool Q]

4 minutes ago, deecie said:

Have the SNP said they would be adopting the same tax free allowance though?

Fair question, and not one I can honestly answer. I'd be amazed if they didn't, as to do so, would be disproportionately hard on the poor, and I'm pretty certain the Scotsman, BBC & co would have mentioned by now if there was any suggestion that the SNP weren't going to. But as I say, not going to claim to know for sure.

[stocky]

21 minutes ago, deecie said:

Have the SNP said they would be adopting the same tax free allowance though?

IIRC it will be the same till 2019/2020 then it will increase by 250 pounds More than people who live in a different tax regime but live on the same Island as i do.

edit is is 2021/22 

 

• freezing the basic rate of tax for the duration of the next parliament
• setting a zero tax rate rate which will ensure that, by 2021/22 no one pays tax on the first £12,750 of their income

• the starting threshold for basic rate tax. George Osborne aims to put that up from £11,000 to £12,500 by 2020.

  Nicola Sturgeon says she wants to put it up to £12,750 by the following year

• no planned increases to the basic (20p), higher (40p) or additional rate (45p)
• the exact level of the higher rate threshold will be set out each year by the Scottish government 

 

so the last point means they can increase the 45 - 50 if they wish , they probably wont.

 

 

So it means people in Scotland will pay no more tax than they do just now for the next 5 years. 

 

Edited March 24, 2016 by stocky
more info

[Glasgowmancity]

19 minutes ago, stocky said:

IIRC it will be the same till 2019/2020 then it will increase by 250 pounds More than people who live in a different tax regime but live on the same Island as i do.

edit is is 2021/22 

 

• freezing the basic rate of tax for the duration of the next parliament
• setting a zero tax rate rate which will ensure that, by 2021/22 no one pays tax on the first £12,750 of their income

• the starting threshold for basic rate tax. George Osborne aims to put that up from £11,000 to £12,500 by 2020.

  Nicola Sturgeon says she wants to put it up to £12,750 by the following year

• no planned increases to the basic (20p), higher (40p) or additional rate (45p)
• the exact level of the higher rate threshold will be set out each year by the Scottish government 

 

so the last point means they can increase the 45 - 50 if they wish , they probably wont.

 

 

So it means people in Scotland will pay no more tax than they do just now for the next 5 years. 

 

The last line of that post is so full of holes it's unreal - considering the way you have nitpicked & deliberately missed the point all the way through this thread to suit your argument.

 

[Toepoke]

Seems the SNP are damned if they do or don't with this:-

Minimal changes to taxes= Not radical enough.

Varying the tax rate= Unfair compared with the rUK

 

My opinion, Rome wasn't built in a day, the power hasn't even been devolved yet, let's judge it after a few years...

 

[Topcat]

Toepoke, I think we can judge denial of a minimum (presuming the rate at which 40% kicks in will increase for rUK in future budgets) approaching £1600 over the next 5 years as a significant boot in the baws when compared to others over the border.

Seems that as the significant SNP cohort have failed to make their promised impression upon Westminster/Tories they have decided to use this new fiscal power rather unwisely to get it right up the Tories from Edinburgh by booting their own supporters in the goolies and shoplift from a sitting duck. Dare I say it's the Poll Tax all over again although this time it's self-inflicted. 

[stocky]

ok Topcat lets take it your way

The top 15%  (11000)  of Scots will pay no more tax, but will pay 300- 400  pounds more than English based people.

How is 'these people not paying more tax' a boot in the baws. 

11000 people are not getting a tax cut 

that means the other 85% of the population will stay the same.

 

If it is not these 15% ,these 11.000 people  then who should it be

 

 

[littleboyblue]

1 hour ago, deecie said:

Have the SNP said they would be adopting the same tax free allowance though?

They don't have the power to do anything else.

[Pool Q]

19 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

Seems the SNP are damned if they do or don't with this:-

Minimal changes to taxes= Not radical enough.

Varying the tax rate= Unfair compared with the rUK

 

My opinion, Rome wasn't built in a day, the power hasn't even been devolved yet, let's judge it after a few years...

The SNP may well be glad the upcoming elections are happening when they are; they could have a few tough years ahead in government and their record will come under ever greater scrutiny. They have the powers to vary and raise taxes, any cuts people see will now be far more directly attributable to the SNP and the Scottish government. Granted there is a context that it needs to be put into, but our media aren't going to be falling over themselves to do that. As the McWhirter article suggests they seem to be playing the Tory austerity game, perhaps to keep as many of their more affluent supporters onside as possible? Dangerous game that, effectively letting Osborne set the political and economic agenda. People want a Scottish parliament and government with powers to actually act and use them, not to operate as 'Tory-lite' until the polls indicate a referendum can be won at some notional point in the future. Felt the same, for me, regarding the Council Tax changes. I think a few people are seriously overreacting to the 40% banding thing, but that is their prerogative. There does seem to be a damned if you do, damned if you don't narrative developing. 

[Topcat]

11 minutes ago, stocky said:

ok Topcat lets take it your way

The top 15%  (11000)  of Scots will pay no more tax, but will pay 300- 400  pounds more than English based people.

How is 'these people not paying more tax' a boot in the baws. 

11000 people are not getting a tax cut 

that means the other 85% of the population will stay the same.

 

If it is not these 15% ,these 11.000 people  then who should it be

 

 

If 11000 people constitute the top 15% of earners in the country then there must be less than 100k people in paid work - issue with figures?

You say no more tax (technically correct).

I say denial of a tax break freely available to rUK which therefore increase my tax burden (also technically correct) when compared to anyone south of border costing me £1600 minimum over 5 years - a not insignificant sum of money.

Who should it be? It should be everyone in employment at every level of taxation. It has been presumed that those like me just over the threshold would be willing to contribute - why not open it up and make it a bit more transparent. Wonder how that would go down.

[Toepoke]

16 minutes ago, Pool Q said:

The SNP may well be glad the upcoming elections are happening when they are; they could have a few tough years ahead in government and their record will come under ever greater scrutiny. They have the powers to vary and raise taxes, any cuts people see will now be far more directly attributable to the SNP and the Scottish government. Granted there is a context that it needs to be put into, but our media aren't going to be falling over themselves to do that. As the McWhirter article suggests they seem to be playing the Tory austerity game, perhaps to keep as many of their more affluent supporters onside as possible? Dangerous game that, effectively letting Osborne set the political and economic agenda. People want a Scottish parliament and government with powers to actually act and use them, not to operate as 'Tory-lite' until the polls indicate a referendum can be won at some notional point in the future. Felt the same, for me, regarding the Council Tax changes. I think a few people are seriously overreacting to the 40% banding thing, but that is their prerogative. There does seem to be a damned if you do, damned if you don't narrative developing.

Seems ironic given what he's written today but I'm pretty sure MacWhirter has said in the past that devolving income tax was Westminster giving the SNP enough rope to hang themselves...

[stocky]

1 hour ago, Topcat said:

If 11000 people constitute the top 15% of earners in the country then there must be less than 100k people in paid work - issue with figures?

You say no more tax (technically correct).

I say denial of a tax break freely available to rUK which therefore increase my tax burden (also technically correct) when compared to anyone south of border costing me £1600 minimum over 5 years - a not insignificant sum of money.

Who should it be? It should be everyone in employment at every level of taxation. It has been presumed that those like me just over the threshold would be willing to contribute - why not open it up and make it a bit more transparent. Wonder how that would go down.

Who pays 45p income tax?

332,000

Approximate total for the UK

11,000

Approximate total for Scotland

UK government

 

 

That was the figure I got from the BBC...

 

This only affects 11000 people , you are fortunate to be in that band.  

Remember there are lots of workers who dont pay any any tax at all. all those under 11k, part timers, min wage etc.

IMO, To get a fairer society, the higher earners should pay more. 

Whether rt should be the top 15% or the top 10% or the top 50% is open for debate, however the Scottish Govt dont have the power to alter that.

I think we can see how insignificant Income tax really is as a revenue earner

Or whether  it should be each and every tax payer,  well that is a debate, however this one started when a poster said he would be paying more, when ( you agreee) That is not the point.

Remember Westminster still control 70% of all our taxe

 

 

 

[deecie]

14 minutes ago, stocky said:

Who pays 45p income tax?

332,000

Approximate total for the UK

11,000

Approximate total for Scotland

UK government

 

 

That was the figure I got from the BBC...

 

This only affects 11000 people , you are fortunate to be in that band.  

Remember there are lots of workers who dont pay any any tax at all. all those under 11k, part timers, min wage etc.

IMO, To get a fairer society, the higher earners should pay more. 

Whether rt should be the top 15% or the top 10% or the top 50% is open for debate, however the Scottish Govt dont have the power to alter that.

I think we can see how insignificant Income tax really is as a revenue earner

Or whether  it should be each and every tax payer,  well that is a debate, however this one started when a poster said he would be paying more, when ( you agreee) That is not the point.

Remember Westminster still control 70% of all our taxe

 

 

 

You are confusing the 40p and 45p tax brackets now.

[thplinth]

If someone earns 10 times more than you and pays 10 times more tax than you is that not fair? Why should it be 12 times of 15 times more than you? There is no logic to it other than let's screw over rich people because they are rich. 

Having a lower corporation tax than England would have induced greater inward investment in Scotland. People can see the benefits to that strategy but when it comes to having higher personal taxes in Scotland versus England they do not seem to see any downside at all.

Are the SNP really so stupid as to position Scotland as higher tax than England? Ahh well crack on and learn the lesson the hard way. Political and economic suicide...

[Glasgowmancity]

42 minutes ago, stocky said:

Who pays 45p income tax?

332,000

Approximate total for the UK

11,000

Approximate total for Scotland

UK government

 

 

That was the figure I got from the BBC...

 

This only affects 11000 people , you are fortunate to be in that band.  

Remember there are lots of workers who dont pay any any tax at all. all those under 11k, part timers, min wage etc.

IMO, To get a fairer society, the higher earners should pay more. 

Whether rt should be the top 15% or the top 10% or the top 50% is open for debate, however the Scottish Govt dont have the power to alter that.

I think we can see how insignificant Income tax really is as a revenue earner

Or whether  it should be each and every tax payer,  well that is a debate, however this one started when a poster said he would be paying more, when ( you agreee) That is not the point.

Remember Westminster still control 70% of all our taxe

 

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, deecie said:

You are confusing the 40p and 45p tax brackets now.

 

Oh FFS  

[stocky]

28 minutes ago, deecie said:

You are confusing the 40p and 45p tax brackets now.

Sorry cut and pasted the wrong bit I wondered where the 11 000 figure came from it is 14,000,

 

 

Scotland's 40p tax payers

372,000

Approximate total number

10%

Working population

• £190m Value of 40p tax cut plan

• 14,000 Workers removed from rate by cut

UK Government

[Glasgowmancity]

3 minutes ago, stocky said:

Sorry cut and pasted the wrong bit I wondered where the 11 000 figure came from it is 14,000,

 

 

Scotland's 40p tax payers

372,000

Approximate total number

10%

Working population

• £190m Value of 40p tax cut plan

• 14,000 Workers removed from rate by cut

UK Government

It'll affect everyone paying 40% tax & above, therefore at least 372,000 people.(going by your figures)