Panama papers

[euan2020]

20 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I think i would still prefer to be the guy left with £ 96,400 to play with than one of the  5 guys with  £ 26,200. 

sure - discussion is about tax contribution though, not about disposable income 

In above scenario any person with bit of foresight would save up to GBP 40/ 50K into their pension, so not pay the tax 

 

[TDYER63]

30 minutes ago, euan2020 said:

sure - discussion is about tax contribution though, not about disposable income 

In above scenario any person with bit of foresight would save up to GBP 40/ 50K into their pension, so not pay the tax 

 

I realise this however i do not have enough knowledge on tax to make a worthwhile contribution on the rights and wrongs of taxing high earners. What I can see though, as demonstrated in your example about pension contributions, is that the whole set up relies on a moral compass. Call me naive but unfortunatley I feel that too many people have lost their compass. If I were fortunate enough to earn £150k i hope I would pay my way rather than squirrel more away for the future. But as you say, that is an entirely diffferent discussion.

[antidote]

2 hours ago, Pool Q said:

You're a curious creature. In reality, after it being shown your initial claim was nonsense, you tried to muddy the waters by saying indirect tax rates in the UK were higher. When the that was shown not to be the case either - with real tax rates in the UK being roughly in the middle for developed countries - you then developed your 'analysis' by listing various taxes as and when you could think of them, and backing up your claims with links to, amongst others, the Daily Mail. Most indirect taxes in the UK will have equivalents in other countries (VAT rates are set at an EU level for example, and I don't think I've ever been anywhere there wasn't a sales tax). 

To take two specific examples. I checked on the costs in Spain we paid in relation to a couple of taxes you listed earlier in the thread. The Spanish equivalent of Stamp Duty is a Transfer Tax, and is charged on the value of the property at a rate of 7%, higher (usually much higher) than Stamp Duty for any UK property, certainly for those of less than £925k. There is also a 3% Income Tax payable on the purchase by non-residents, but that can reasonably be forgotten about for comparative purposes. Either way, the cost is higher in Spain. Conversely, it should be said, road tax (IVMT) is probably about half to three-quarters what it is in the UK, depending on the model of the car.

You made a claim which was incorrect. Unsurprisingly, you have since been unable to show any credible evidence to substantiate your claim because it is wrong. Rather than quit when you weren't ahead you have kept on going, and are now relying on stuff like pretending that those disputing your claim 'don't understand' the difference between direct and indirect tax. 

I never once tried to muddy the waters by saying indirect taxes are higher.

Which part of tax are you struggling with? direct tax and indirect tax are still taxes.

The middle position for the UK is a result of direct taxes and I have not seen any evidence, as yet, to suggest indirect taxes are included.

You provide links to where the uk government pays the highest tax burden, which includes direct and indirect taxes, then. No government will supply that information.

The Spanish recently upped their tax for property to 7% during the market crash if my memory serves me right.

 

I made a claim and I stand by that claim that the UK has the highest tax burden on its citizens than any other modernised country.

Remember tax includes direct and indirect taxes, they are both taxes.

I'm not pretending, I'm serious. I have only been quoted direct taxation burdens. 

Maybe the DM got it information from here where it clearly shows that Spanish property tax is nearly half that of the UK which is the highest in the oecd world.

https://data.oecd.org/tax/tax-on-property.htm

Kind of flattens your argument doesn't it. You see you forgot to put in the hidden taxes, indirect taxes, like CT, which I assume, is how they arrive at the total. 

It is you who should quit.

You mentioned road tax being more expensive in the UK and it looks as though the UK outstrips all the other countries when it comes to diesel too. On gasoline the uk is just squeaked by the Netherlands. Tobacco, the uk top again.

Check: 'selected excise duties' tables:  Taxation of automotive diesel per litre ,  Taxation of automotive diesel per litre  &  Taxation of Tobacco 

 

I think we can safely assume that the UK is at the top tax burden country so far when it comes comes to property and excise duty.

No doubt the rest of the evidence will crop up somewhere.

Edited April 16, 2016 by antidote

[Lamia]

8 hours ago, antidote said:

Here is one of my previous posts:

"Have done so you've obviously not opened your eyes. Try googling and remember 'indirect taxation' too."

 

Kinda shot yourself in the foot there did you not.

How? 

 

[Lamia]

4 hours ago, antidote said:

I made a claim and I stand by that claim that the UK has the highest tax burden on its citizens than any other modernised country.

Remember tax includes direct and indirect taxes, they are both taxes.

 

I am well aware that taxes are both direct and indirect. I originally asked you for a country by country analyse to show that all taxes in the UK meant we had the highest total tax burden. Just a table of countries and their comparative tax total burdens that is all you need to provide. Given you claim you have evidence to prove your assertion this should be a simple enough job. I even gave you the easier task of asking for the UK and Sweden only and you still haven't even managed that.

The bottom line is you have made a claim you are unable to back up and anyone reading this thread can see this quite clearly.

[Larky Masher]

23 hours ago, antidote said:

I never once tried to muddy the waters by saying indirect taxes are higher.

Which part of tax are you struggling with? direct tax and indirect tax are still taxes.

The middle position for the UK is a result of direct taxes and I have not seen any evidence, as yet, to suggest indirect taxes are included.

You provide links to where the uk government pays the highest tax burden, which includes direct and indirect taxes, then. No government will supply that information.

The Spanish recently upped their tax for property to 7% during the market crash if my memory serves me right.

 

I made a claim and I stand by that claim that the UK has the highest tax burden on its citizens than any other modernised country.

Remember tax includes direct and indirect taxes, they are both taxes.

I'm not pretending, I'm serious. I have only been quoted direct taxation burdens. 

Maybe the DM got it information from here where it clearly shows that Spanish property tax is nearly half that of the UK which is the highest in the oecd world.

https://data.oecd.org/tax/tax-on-property.htm

Kind of flattens your argument doesn't it. You see you forgot to put in the hidden taxes, indirect taxes, like CT, which I assume, is how they arrive at the total. 

It is you who should quit.

You mentioned road tax being more expensive in the UK and it looks as though the UK outstrips all the other countries when it comes to diesel too. On gasoline the uk is just squeaked by the Netherlands. Tobacco, the uk top again.

Check: 'selected excise duties' tables:  Taxation of automotive diesel per litre ,  Taxation of automotive diesel per litre  &  Taxation of Tobacco 

 

I think we can safely assume that the UK is at the top tax burden country so far when it comes comes to property and excise duty.

No doubt the rest of the evidence will crop up somewhere.

If you look at every other tab on that page, e.g. taxes of personal income (direct tax), social security, goods and services (indirect taxes), the UK is nowhere near the top.

[antidote]

4 hours ago, Larky Masher said:

If you look at every other tab on that page, e.g. taxes of personal income (direct tax), social security, goods and services (indirect taxes), the UK is nowhere near the top.

Ehm...they are mid table on direct taxation and top of the table in property taxes. As for taxes on social security, well maybe if they paid the same social security as many other countries then they would take more tax.

Goods? You mean VAT? Seems that VAT is also included along with other taxes in excise duty by all accounts. 

[antidote]

On 4/16/2016 at 5:37 PM, Lamia said:

I am well aware that taxes are both direct and indirect. I originally asked you for a country by country analyse to show that all taxes in the UK meant we had the highest total tax burden. Just a table of countries and their comparative tax total burdens that is all you need to provide. Given you claim you have evidence to prove your assertion this should be a simple enough job. I even gave you the easier task of asking for the UK and Sweden only and you still haven't even managed that.

The bottom line is you have made a claim you are unable to back up and anyone reading this thread can see this quite clearly.

If you think I am going to go through the taxes of each and every country there is along with trying to find all their hidden and stealth taxes then you must think I have an army of civil servants behind me.

I doubt if they could get to the bottom of HMRC's mind numbing calculations in all things tax.

The uk, I suppose with other countries, are very adapt at hiding the word tax when it comes to describing what is in reality a tax.

National insurance is one that springs prominently to mind. When it comes to taxes it is all smoke and mirrors by the uk Government.

If my memory serves me right, Gordon Brown brought in something like 40 stealth taxes, not all, if any were called taxes.

Believe me or not, I stand by what I said and nothing you or any others on here will change that perception.

[Lamia]

1 hour ago, antidote said:

If you think I am going to go through the taxes of each and every country there is along with trying to find all their hidden and stealth taxes then you must think I have an army of civil servants behind me.

 

At last an admission that you can't prove that the UK is the highest taxed. You see it wasn't so hard. 

[thplinth]

22 minutes ago, Lamia said:

At last an admission that you can't prove that the UK is the highest taxed. You see it wasn't so hard. 

 

Did he say he could prove it?

[Larky Masher]

1 hour ago, antidote said:

Ehm...they are mid table on direct taxation and top of the table in property taxes. As for taxes on social security, well maybe if they paid the same social security as many other countries then they would take more tax.

Goods? You mean VAT? Seems that VAT is also included along with other taxes in excise duty by all accounts. 

Top of the table in property tax but this has little impact on most people as there not selling property on a regular basis, and as for VAT I'll reiterate out VAT rate is lower than a significant number of countries in Europe. 

[Larky Masher]

There a comparison of composite indirect tax rates here, the UK is (as I previously stated) far from having the highest rate in Europe never mind the world.

[antidote]

On 4/16/2016 at 5:37 PM, Lamia said:

I

On 4/16/2016 at 5:25 PM, Lamia said:

 

On 4/15/2016 at 11:27 AM, antidote said:

 

On 4/16/2016 at 5:25 PM, Lamia said:

 

 

Not an admission, but you know how hard it is to get any government, especially your beloved westminster government to admit to having the highest tax regime in the world and you know that.

As you can see I from this post I am having real trouble quoting your comment and replying.

 

Oh look, a list of countries with the highest tax, but it is only a newspaper saying it, I suppose you and others would say that they're biased.

Note the line:

" United Kingdom is a sovereign state in Europe laying off the north-western coast of the European mainland it has 64.5 million inhabitants making it 22nd-most populous country. The United Kingdom is a developed state and world’s fifth-largest economy by nominal GDP following its fruitful economic policies. It charges 40% in form of corporate tax, 55.9% of maximum individual tax including federal plus local while tax on payroll is 15.3%-3.8% and sales tax is 0%-11.725% making it highest tax paying country in the world."

Quick! Get in touch with them to prove it.

 

http://www.abcnewspoint.com/top-10-highest-tax-paying-countries-2015/

[antidote]

1 hour ago, thplinth said:

 

Did he say he could prove it?

Correct! But the westminster acolytes can't stand the truth and can't deal with someone who expresses his opinion, an opinion that is shared by many.

[Larky Masher]

16 minutes ago, antidote said:

Not an admission, but you know how hard it is to get any government, especially your beloved westminster government to admit to having the highest tax regime in the world and you know that.

As you can see I from this post I am having real trouble quoting your comment and replying.

 

Oh look, a list of countries with the highest tax, but it is only a newspaper saying it, I suppose you and others would say that they're biased.

Note the line:

" United Kingdom is a sovereign state in Europe laying off the north-western coast of the European mainland it has 64.5 million inhabitants making it 22nd-most populous country. The United Kingdom is a developed state and world’s fifth-largest economy by nominal GDP following its fruitful economic policies. It charges 40% in form of corporate tax, 55.9% of maximum individual tax including federal plus local while tax on payroll is 15.3%-3.8% and sales tax is 0%-11.725% making it highest tax paying country in the world."

Quick! Get in touch with them to prove it.

 

http://www.abcnewspoint.com/top-10-highest-tax-paying-countries-2015/

That's a cracker of source an Indian website.

Less than 1% of the population pay the top rate of tax and 81.6% only pay the basic rate.

Westminster is not my beloved government but trying to smear me with that that simply shows that you know you are losing this.

[Larky Masher]

22 minutes ago, antidote said:

Correct! But the westminster acolytes can't stand the truth and can't deal with someone who expresses his opinion, an opinion that is shared by many.

So you can't prove its true but if we disagree with you we can't stand the truth? I'd suggest we are dealing with your opinion we're simply showing it's wrong.

[antidote]

1 hour ago, Larky Masher said:

Top of the table in property tax but this has little impact on most people as there not selling property on a regular basis, and as for VAT I'll reiterate out VAT rate is lower than a significant number of countries in Europe. 

But it is still counted as an indirect tax and the oecd describes such taxes, that you would say is voluntary like road tax etc, as being an indirect tax.

Top of the table on many things I have given links to here.

Check out the reply to Lamia, it seems that many think the same way as me.

Maybe we put VAT on many more items than many countries, who knows. We still pay 20% of VAT on excise duties, but the uk Gov puts other taxes on it too.

15 minutes ago, Larky Masher said:

That's a cracker of source an Indian website.

Less than 1% of the population pay the top rate of tax and 81.6% only pay the basic rate.

Westminster is not my beloved government but trying to smear me with that that simply shows that you know you are losing this.

Again everyone is lying, but you. You show me a credible website that proves your claim of the uk as being the mid ranged taxed country.

[Lamia]

34 minutes ago, antidote said:

As you can see I from this post I am having real trouble quoting your comment and replying.

 

Not the only thing you are having trouble with it seems

[antidote]

15 minutes ago, Larky Masher said:

So you can't prove its true but if we disagree with you we can't stand the truth? I'd suggest we are dealing with your opinion we're simply showing it's wrong.

My opinion and why should I prove it.

Again I will say it for your benefit. The uk is the highest tax country in the developed world. 

Where is your "truth" as you put it.

Prove your truth and please remember not to just show direct tax graphs.

[Larky Masher]

8 minutes ago, antidote said:

But it is still counted as an indirect tax and the oecd describes such taxes, that you would say is voluntary like road tax etc, as being an indirect tax.

Top of the table on many things I have given links to here.

Check out the reply to Lamia, it seems that many think the same way as me.

Maybe we put VAT on many more items than many countries, who knows. We still pay 20% of VAT on excise duties, but the uk Gov puts other taxes on it too.

Again everyone is lying, but you. You show me a credible website that proves your claim of the uk as being the mid ranged taxed country.

Every link I've posted has been from a credible source and I'm saying you are lying I'm saying you are wrong, which is totally different.

[antidote]

6 minutes ago, Larky Masher said:

Every link I've posted has been from a credible source and I'm saying you are lying I'm saying you are wrong, which is totally different.

You gave a link and said that the uk was mid table. You obviously only thought of direct tax.

The rest of the information had reams of paper work that would take a lot of research.

 

Where's your proof of the truth?

[Larky Masher]

6 minutes ago, antidote said:

My opinion and why should I prove it.

Again I will say it for your benefit. The uk is the highest tax country in the developed world. 

Where is your "truth" as you put it.

Prove your truth and please remember not to just show direct tax graphs.

My truth is that your opinion is unequivocally wrong.

[antidote]

13 minutes ago, Lamia said:

Not the only thing you are having trouble with it seems

Like you not been able to keep up and forgetting things.

[antidote]

15 minutes ago, Lamia said:

10 minutes ago, Larky Masher said:

My truth is that your opinion is unequivocally wrong.

Prove it.

[Lamia]

8 minutes ago, antidote said:

Like you not been able to keep up and forgetting things.

All I have done throughout this thread is ask you to demonstrate your claim. There was nothing to forget or keep up with because you simply haven't done the only think I have been repeatedly asking.