EU Referendum

[Baz]

8 hours ago, Toepoke said:

A lot of obstacles to it, but we're in uncharted waters here. As it stands we're going to have an EU / non-EU border on Ireland, would it be possible for one to exist on Great Britain?...

 

Edited June 25, 2016 by Baz
Didn't read post properly!

[McDange]

Go for both. Belt & braces. 

[Alan]

I note London, Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Leicester, Oxford, Cambridge, Bristol, Newcastle as well as Scotland and NI voted Remain. Remove voting from small towns.

[Rossy]

38 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Extremely hard day for me yesterday, politically.. As a leave voter and snp/yes voter seeing freinds and long term snp supporters saying tbe will no longer vote snp was hard going,, i fear banff and buchan is lost to the snp now

Aye right.

I'm pretty convinced that you're Alan's second log on ID....

[hampden_loon2878]

30 minutes ago, Rossy said:

Aye right.

I'm pretty convinced that you're Alan's second log on ID....

What because i dont agree with every snp policey blindly? 

[Rossy]

5 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

What because i dont agree with every snp policey blindly? 

No. It's because you're a troll with an obvious agenda. 

[Marky]

On 24 June 2016 at 7:49 AM, BlueGaz said:

The team I support has fk all to do with this discussion.  Grow up.

That is a whopper of such monstrous proportions it could have been in the vow. 

[aaid]

10 hours ago, Alan said:

Fuxsake wasn't expecting that result but then I'm part of the "metropolitan elite". I don't get places like Basildon, Barnsley or Boston. Boroughs in London like Lambeth and Wandsworth voted to Remain more than Scotland as a whole and I lived and enjoyed these places.

It's nuts IMHO. For me the economy is the most important thing in elections. This debate was not about that. I'm in shock.

Windsor & Maidenhead voted Remain as well, just saying like.  

Genuine question but does this change your view about Independence?   Of course, being in or out of the EU is only part of it, the much wider context is really what kind of UK will this end up looking like?

[vanderark14]

1 hour ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Extremely hard day for me yesterday, politically.. As a leave voter and snp/yes voter seeing freinds and long term snp supporters saying tbe will no longer vote snp was hard going,, i fear banff and buchan is lost to the snp now

I wouldn't worry, over the next two years the negotiations will show that boris and his pals don't give a about the northeast of Scotland. The fishing industry won't return like they expect it to and Scotland will again get shafted. 

 

 

[thorbotnic]

1 minute ago, vanderark14 said:

I wouldn't worry, over the next two years the negotiations will show that boris and his pals don't give a about the northeast of Scotland. The fishing industry won't return like they expect it to and Scotland will again get shafted. 

 

 

They don't give a shit about anywhere, really. NE Scotland won't be as hard hit as NE England, I don't think - nor does it deserve to be.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/why-the-north-of-england-will-regret-voting-for-brexit-a7101321.html

 

[Toepoke]

1 hour ago, Alan said:

I note London, Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Leicester, Oxford, Cambridge, Bristol, Newcastle as well as Scotland and NI voted Remain. Remove voting from small towns.

Newsnight was interesting last night. There's no doubt this was Little England's shot at giving the establishment a boot.

A lot of these people are going to be seriously disappointed when their home towns don't revert to the way they were in the 1960s...

Edited June 25, 2016 by Toepoke

[86glebestreet]

1 hour ago, Alan said:

I note London, Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Leicester, Oxford, Cambridge, Bristol, Newcastle as well as Scotland and NI voted Remain. Remove voting from small towns.

What about Sheffield Birmingham Southampton 

[RenfrewBlue]

14 hours ago, Scunnered said:

Pffft!  Good luck with that, I'm Unioned up to the eyeballs!

Like that'll matter a toss once we're out of the EU and at the mercy of the Tories! ? 

[TDYER63]

11 hours ago, Jaggy Jim said:

No way this will fly. Having watched a lot of the news coverage today it's obvious a lot of Leave voters did so as a middle finger to those they see as the political elite. To then see that political elite negotiate a way back in to the EU would lead to all sorts of trouble.

The news channels have spent the day looking for interviews with the most ignorant Leave voters they could find I think. I've seen a guy in Burnley who had no problem with immigrants coming from Europe but voted Leave to stop Muslims coming, a woman who didn't know why she voted Leave she 'just had', a guy who assumed it would be a Remain result but just wanted to make it closer and various other nonsensical reasons. Despite being in the Remain camp myself I accept there were valid reasons to vote Leave, but the news channels seemed to be struggling to find folk with such reasons. If they did they weren't broadcasting them. 

Hopefully this will all lead to a 2nd independence referendum and a Yes vote. Whether we're close to that I don't know, but I have been encouraged to see a couple of friends on Facebook who were very vocally No first time round sharing SNP articles today. Also had an English cousin who's very pro-union saying he wish he had a party like the SNP he could vote for south of the border and that he'd completely understand if Scotland went independent now.

I agree with most of what you say there but these people were played like a fiddle this time and most certainly could be played again .  Tell them the immigration problem bas been sorted, there was not really £350 mio a week to go to the NHS and that we now have negotiated the 'really nice' bits of Eu membership. 

I am not saying this will happen, nor do i want it, I want out of this Union. But i think it is naive to think it couldnt happen. 

[popkean1314foreva]

Read in the Brexit supporting  Sun today (English version )  that  our holidays` will get more expensive , but that cheap deals are available to places such Sharm El Sheikh (which you can only fly to via another European country ) or with no trace of irony , Turkey .

[RenfrewBlue]

10 hours ago, Toepoke said:

You'd have heard it here too an hour ago

 

I think a scenario like that is what we should push for first in any negotiations. Definitely a better option than another extended referendum campaign with no guarantee of success...

 

Sadly this has no chance of happening thanks to Spain and their independence issues with the Catalans.  They won't want the boat rocked so will veto any move of this sort.

[TDYER63]

11 hours ago, Scunnered said:

The UK has just removed itself from a Union which forbids socialism, forces austerity and will soon allow corporations to sue governments if their public services affect profits. It's very hard not to see that as anything other than a victory. Impossible even.

I repeat . The leave campaign was won mainly on the back of narrow minded racism and right wing agenda . There were plenty of good intentioned people like yourself out there but that is not what swung it. 

Good luck with Boris, Nige and the new socialist Britain.

[RenfrewBlue]

2 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I repeat . The leave campaign was won mainly on the back of narrow minded racism and right wing agenda . There were plenty of good intentioned people like yourself out there but that is not what swung it. 

Good luck with Boris, Nige and the new socialist Britain.

You're wasting your time. He lives in a socialist dream world in his head.

The fact that the vast majority of people in almost every country in theory reject that ideology doesn't seem to filter in.

[Rossy]

5 minutes ago, RenfrewBlue said:

You're wasting your time. He lives in a socialist dream world in his head.

The fact that the vast majority of people in almost every country in theory reject that ideology doesn't seem to filter in.

I'm finding it hard to understand how he could reject the concept of the EU but be accepting of a right-wing Westminster led by the Tories of Johnston and Gove. 

[vanderark14]

42 minutes ago, thorbotnic said:

They don't give a shit about anywhere, really. NE Scotland won't be as hard hit as NE England, I don't think - nor does it deserve to be.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/why-the-north-of-england-will-regret-voting-for-brexit-a7101321.html

 

I was only quoting the north east of Scotland because we are both from there and he mentioned Banff & Buchan. I fully expect Boris and his pals to do what we all expect, the North or anywhere outwith the South East of england will regret this vote.

alot of people seem to think they have brought down the establishment when all they've done is replace one establishment with more right wing version of what was already there

[thplinth]

Wow looking at the likely members of the Brexit cabinet this is going to have a far greater effect than just leaving the EU. Everyone of them is significantly further out on the right v Cameron. Britain is about to take a massive lurch to the right. This will be the nasty party big time now. The idea this is good for socialism is laughable. Corbyn will be lucky to survive. 

New Labour / Blair weaponized immigration to achieve demographic changes they thought favourable to the Labour party's chances of retaining power.  Look at the areas that have voted heavily for Leave are they not strong labour heartlands. They have done this to themselves and are now reaping what they have sowed. 

Edited June 25, 2016 by thplinth

[Scunnered]

10 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I repeat . The leave campaign was won mainly on the back of narrow minded racism and right wing agenda . There were plenty of good intentioned people like yourself out there but that is not what swung it. 

Substitute Racism with Nationalism and you'd have the exact same thing that would have been said to Socialists who voted Yes despite the middle class and corporate orientated Yes campaign.  Plenty of socialists felt that the Yes vote was the correct decision at the time.

7 minutes ago, RenfrewBlue said:

You're wasting your time. He lives in a socialist dream world in his head.

The fact that the vast majority of people in almost every country in theory reject that ideology doesn't seem to filter in.

I've no time for your negativity today.  I am currently pumping myself up with the Red Flag and then I'm off to support striking ScotRail staff.

[Scunnered]

10 minutes ago, Rossy said:

I'm finding it hard to understand how he could reject the concept of the EU but be accepting of a right-wing Westminster led by the Tories of Johnston and Gove. 

Yes...  I completely accept the current right wing Westminster government 

[exile]

12 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Wow looking at the likely members of the Brexit cabinet this is going to have a far greater effect than just leaving the EU. Everyone of them is significantly further out on the right v Cameron. Britain is about to take a massive lurch to the right. This will be the nasty party big time now. The idea this is good for socialism is laughable. Corbyn will be lucky to survive. 

 

How so? If The Tories lurch to the right then the more moderate voters are less likely to vote for them and more likely to look again at Labour etc

[TDYER63]

17 minutes ago, Scunnered said:

Substitute Racism with Nationalism and you'd have the exact same thing that would have been said to Socialists who voted Yes despite the middle class and corporate orientated Yes campaign.  Plenty of socialists felt that the Yes vote was the correct decision at the time.

I've no time for your negativity today.  I am currently pumping myself up with the Red Flag and then I'm off to support striking ScotRail staff.

I dont disagree. But i would argue that the majority of people who voted yes in indyref , whether nationalist or socialist, were either centre or centre left . You were starting from a good platform.  This is not the case in the eu referendum.