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4 minutes ago, mariokempes56 said:

I'm starting to consider that possibility or even likelihood. The UK is ##ked up beyond redemption, the false promises of bother sides are in tatters (we all know but then we are up with stuff, but if they renege on immigartion controls and free trade etc then I dread to imagine the carnage down south.

Not to mention the complete subterfuge by the Tory party and the MSM that we will have to endure in the months ahead 

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Media should rethink coverage in wake of Brexit vote, says Justin Webb

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2016/jul/05/media-should-rethink-coverage-in-wake-of-brexit-vote-says-justin-webb

" So to translate what Justin Webb said remain lost so we did not do our job right. "

Edited by exile
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1 hour ago, exile said:

Media should rethink coverage in wake of Brexit vote, says Justin Webb

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2016/jul/05/media-should-rethink-coverage-in-wake-of-brexit-vote-says-justin-webb

" So to translate what Justin Webb said remain lost so we did not do our job right. "

I'm sure the Mail, Sun and Express would disagree.

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3 hours ago, exile said:

Media should rethink coverage in wake of Brexit vote, says Justin Webb

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2016/jul/05/media-should-rethink-coverage-in-wake-of-brexit-vote-says-justin-webb

" So to translate what Justin Webb said remain lost so we did not do our job right. "

 

1 hour ago, Hertsscot said:

I'm sure the Mail, Sun and Express would disagree.

 

We have a huge problem within media channels in the UK where everything is covered with a deliberate bias (the newspapers) or a deliberate 'un-bias' (TV news).

The newspapers spread propaganda, and the TV news is scared to hit people with hard questioning.

It's difficult not to cast our minds back to the independence referendum, where it was demanded that the Yes campaign should give costing for every penny over the next 20 years, and compare it with the scandalous and absolutely uncosted lies lies that the media allowed the Leave campaign to use during the EU referendum.

Something is rank in the UK. I can't figure out exactly what it is, but it feels that the whole country is deliberately being driven in a pre-determined direction by unknown forces.

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This article (written by a Scottish politics lecturer in New Zealand) is bang on the money IMO...

 

Why has Scotland risen above the anti-immigrant mood that fuelled the Brexit vote?

http://www.listener.co.nz/current-affairs/foreign-affairs/scotland-brexit-anti-immigrant/

 

LS2816_20_sturgeon3.jpg

Edited by Dave78
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On ‎04‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 1:42 AM, Ally Bongo said:

On one hand yes - on the other no.

Davey Cameron continuing to be PM and the Tories retaining power was what this was all about so in that sense the manifesto bluff was worth it.

It is all one big charade

Surely everyone can now see that we are not going to leave the EU

And our Democracy has always been a sham

 

that's hopefully thinking from the optimists who also firmly believe Scotland will be independent in the near future.

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Guest flumax
2 hours ago, Regenmann said:

Er, 62% to 38% is not '2 to 1'.

Quite right. It's 62:38.

 

Also seen claims of 2 out of 5 people in Scotland voted leave. No they didn't. Over 1/3 of the electorate didn't bother. So 27/100 Ish voted leave. So more accurate to say 1 in 4 voted to leave. 

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40 minutes ago, flumax said:

Quite right. It's 62:38.

 

Also seen claims of 2 out of 5 people in Scotland voted leave. No they didn't. Over 1/3 of the electorate didn't bother. So 27/100 Ish voted leave. So more accurate to say 1 in 4 voted to leave. 

There's a separate - and important - question about why 1/3 of the population didn't vote but anyone who tries to include the number of non-voters in an attempt to either make their side seem larger or the opposition smaller is a total zoomed and should just be ignored. 

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22 minutes ago, aaid said:

There's a separate - and important - question about why 1/3 of the population didn't vote but anyone who tries to include the number of non-voters in an attempt to either make their side seem larger or the opposition smaller is a total zoomed and should just be ignored. 

It's only valid if there's a rule in pace like for the first devolution referendum.

 

CmHL0oFXEAAeXrv.jpg

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Quite a few YES voters popping up on social media saying they voted to leave the EU and would now vote No to Scottish independence if it meant staying in EU. 

Independence for Scotland then WE decide our EU membership. 

What the f##k is wrong with these people? How can they be so short sighted?

..........And Relax.

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2 minutes ago, Och Aye said:

Quite a few YES voters popping up on social media saying they voted to leave the EU and would now vote No to Scottish independence if it meant staying in EU. 

Independence for Scotland then WE decide our EU membership. 

What the f##k is wrong with these people? How can they be so short sighted?

..........And Relax.

I really don't understand that viewpoint, it just seems counter-intuitive to me.

I can fully understand someone who believes that Scotland should be out of both the EU and the UK, I don't agree with it but I can understand it.

I can also understand someone for who remaining in the UK takes primacy over everything else.

However, I can't understand who someone who professes to support Scottish Independence would actually oppose that on the basis of remaining in the EU.

While there's been quite a few people in the press expressing that opinion - I've never heard anyone explain why they have come to that conclusion apart from Fishermen who have a very narrow self-interest.

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I dont think anyone has any idea of what's approaching

Max Keiser has been spot on so far and this is frightening lol

 

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On Saturday, July 09, 2016 at 0:55 PM, aaid said:

However, I can't understand who someone who professes to support Scottish Independence would actually oppose that on the basis of remaining in the EU.

From the survey I saw a greater percentage of SNP voters were opposed to EU membership than Labour or the LibDems. That's a lot of people, I guess there will be a few of them who'll tick that box...

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2 hours ago, Toepoke said:

From the survey I saw a greater percentage of SNP voters were opposed to EU membership than Labour or the LibDems. That's a lot of people, I guess there will be a few of them who'll tick that box...

A lot of SNP voted out to get the political unrest we have now....     

some did it for socialist reasons  ( the highest remain area in Scotland was East Ren/ also highest turnout for no in Indyref 1)

I believe the remain vote in Scotland is actually a lot higher, ALL the ooters voted oot, however lots of SNP/yes voters didnae vote at all ( Glasgow turnout etc)

I personally nearly abstained for the first time in my life, eventually voted Remain,  I could not stand supporting Cameron etc.. and also i was in the huff a wee bit as we ( Scotland ) voted to give others control over our country and as such, we voted to be lead where others take us.....  

However it brings indy ref2 closer, in 3 years rather than 10, 

so ultimately should work out for the best for Scotland. 

 

 

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  • 2 months later...

St Ruth, "Savior of the Union" has underwent quite a remarkable turnaround from her pro-EU rhetoric on the TV debates.

Today she was saying that Scotland has to like it and lump it over Brexit because England says so.

And she's on HIGNFY again in a couple of weeks. The London media fecking love her :crazy:

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1 hour ago, Toepoke said:

She's certainly showing great enthusiasm for it.

"I voted remain, but..." is the Brexit version of "I'm a proud Scot, but..."

 

 

Not sure what she can do. The referendum was lost.

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2 hours ago, andymac said:

Not sure what she can do. The referendum was lost.

not in Scotland.  

in case you missed it 62% Remain

That was 62% to stay in Europe, i dont consider that losing..

 

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May talks of a 'precious Union' but then denies any distinct political voice to Scotland - we are subsumed as just part of the mass UK electorate. As such, this seems to me to deny the significance of what "the Union" is - instead she acts as if the UK is a unitary state. In this sense she is a "unitarian" rather than a true unionist.

The UK may well be "unitarian" for most purposes in practice, but that denies any romantic notion of bonding of partner nations that the Union is built on. There is a definite tension between unitarianism and unionism, and sooner or later I think the true unionists will lose out. 

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