EU Referendum

[Ally Bongo]

1 hour ago, Rossy said:

Any hardened Unionist who happens to be a Labour voter will simply follow the Tories.

 

I doubt that any "hardened" Unionist would vote Labour in the first place 

Also the first referendum was not lost because of the vast amount of "love the Union" voters

It was lost because of the unconvinced/scared

Labour is the key though

If they were to come out for Independence then the game is a bogey

 

[Alan]

4 hours ago, Rossy said:

 

The 50% of the population who are anti- self determination will simply nod their heads and whine about the SNP a bit more.

Self determination (ignoring Brussels control and €uro adoption) for independence in Europe. I voted Remain and gutted about result but its added complication to the nationalist beast.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Alan

[Toepoke]

MacWhirter calls out a new "parcel of rogues"...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14779711.Iain_Macwhirter__Perfidy_by_this_Brexit_parcel_of_rogues/

 

[aaid]

47 minutes ago, Alan said:

Self determination (ignoring Brussels control and €uro adoption) for independence in Europe.

What's the currency in Sweden, Alan?

[Orraloon]

13 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

Yes Campaign 2 v Tories is good

Nice edit. Got in there in time.

[Alibi]

14 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

Can you imagine the furore if Nicola Sturgeon called the English thieves ?

Ruth Davidson says that about Scots and not a peep on MSM

They are really doing their best to make her the media darling and giving her such an easy ride

Really annoyed me that.  The John Cleese thing was just Cleese trying to be amusing and failing - he stopped being funny a long time ago - but Tank Girl's attempt to ingratiate herself with her posh Eton pals is beyond the pale.  She is happy to insult her fellow Scots and pander to unionist establishment racial stereotyping of Scots as the lowest of the low.  Real Uncle Tom behaviour.  If Sturgeon came out with something like that, the media would be demanding her resignation, but with Davidson it's "just a bit of banter".  Would she have said that about our Indian, Pakistani, Italian or whatever citizens, or the Jewish/Muslim communities?  Davidson should issue an unqualified apology.  And then she should resign, not for the slur but because she's clearly deluded, thinking she might be first Minister in 2021.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Alibi

[scotlad]

5 hours ago, Rossy said:

I doubt it.

Scottish politics is completely polarised. Any hardened Unionist who happens to be a Labour voter will simply follow the Tories.

The Tories could inflict any humiliation or whatever on Scotland. The 50% of the population who are anti- self determination will simply nod their heads and whine about the SNP a bit more.

The Tories are gradually becoming less toxic in Scotland, aided, partly, by Ruth Davidson's makeover into the acceptable face of Conservatism in Scotland.

I think we have reached a point now where most folk have picked a side and are sticking to it.  With SLab currently an unelectable mess, staunch pro-union voters will turn to the next best option to keep Scotland in the UK.  At the moment that person is cheery Ruth Davidson.

I don't know how bad it has to get before more people start to question whether their position is really the best for Scotland.
 

16 minutes ago, Alibi said:

Really annoyed me that.  The John Cleese thing was just Cleese trying to be amusing and failing - he stopped being funny a long time ago - but Tank Girl's attempt to ingratiate herself with her posh Eton pals is beyond the pale.  She is happy to insult her fellow Scots and pander to unionist establishment racial stereotyping of Scots as the lowest of the low.  Real Uncle Tom behaviour.  If Sturgeon came out with something like that, the media would be demanding her resignation, but with Davidson it's "just a bit of banter".  Would she have said that about our Indian, Pakistani, Italian or whatever citizens, or the Jewish/Muslim communities?  Davidson should issue an unqualified apology.  And then she should resign, not for the slur but because she's clearly deluded, thinking she might be first Minister in 2021.

My reading of the John Cleese Tweet was that he was criticising the 'Uncle Tams' of the British media and cultural establishment (you know the type I mean).  Unfortunately the language he used enraged a lot of people who might otherwise have agreed with him.

I have no doubt if Ruthie was offered the opportunity to stand for election in one of the safe English Shires she would be ditch Scotland without a moment's hesitation. Apparently she is being lined up to appear on Have I Got News For You this coming week.

Personally I'm not all that offended by what Davidson said but if Sturgeon, or any pro-independence person for that matter, had made a similar quip they'd have been accused of having a chip on their shoulder.

 

[Pool Q]

What did Davidson say?

[Parklife]

Something along the lines of 

"It's great to be doing this in such wonderful surroundings. Which is unusual as Scots are normally put in places where they can't break or steal anything"

 

[Rossy]

13 minutes ago, Pool Q said:

What did Davidson say?

 

6 minutes ago, Parklife said:

Something along the lines of 

"It's great to be doing this in such wonderful surroundings. Which is unusual as Scots are normally put in places where they can't break or steal anything"

 

She was playing to her audience.

Davidson is rather adept at firstly ducking out of having firm opinions, and secondly if she has one....she was painted into a corner over Brexit.....then twisting that opinion so that it fits in with what the Tory party want to hear.

 

[RenfrewBlue]

6 minutes ago, Parklife said:

Something along the lines of 

"It's great to be doing this in such wonderful surroundings. Which is unusual as Scots are normally put in places where they can't break or steal anything"

 

Ruth Davidson is a two faced liar with zero charm. only the most gullible moron would vote for her and her p!sh. 

The MSM appear to be championing her though as she is never questioned on her blatant lies.

Hopefully she'll get a seat down South so that we don't have to see her smug mug any longer. 

 

[Parklife]

20 minutes ago, RenfrewBlue said:

Ruth Davidson is a two faced liar with zero charm. only the most gullible moron would vote for her and her p!sh. 

The MSM appear to be championing her though as she is never questioned on her blatant lies.

Hopefully she'll get a seat down South so that we don't have to see her smug mug any longer. 

 

Aye. Her "woman of the people" persona is pishing me off. I don't doubt that she's down to earth and is similar to ordinary folk in the way she lives her life. 

Unfortunately, a lot of ordinary folk have evil beliefs, just like Ruth Davidson and her party do. 

[Alibi]

1 hour ago, scotlad said:

 

Personally I'm not all that offended by what Davidson said but if Sturgeon, or any pro-independence person for that matter, had made a similar quip they'd have been accused of having a chip on their shoulder.

 

It's not so much what she said; it's who she said it to.  In that company she should be sticking up for Scotland, but of course she's an odious wee wannabee teacher's pet.  Shows where her real loyalties lie.  Scotland is just a stepping stone for her.  The Tory leadership undoubtedly regard her as a useful idiot.  I doubt very much that she would ever be accepted as "one of us" by such people.

[Alan]

2 hours ago, aaid said:

What's the currency in Sweden, Alan?

Sweden has cunningly avoided the euro and stalled so much they will keep the Krona. However a new state like Scotland with no currency will be consumed by the euro as all recent new joiners have. So if you were to retire and move back to Ayrshire like an emotional Tennents Lager advert your house profit and pension would be GBP v EUR. You'd do well out of it right now. In fact shipping up now could work. JP Morgan, Barclays Wealth, Morgan Stanley, BNP Paribas in Glasgow all within a commute.

Then you have turbo austerity like Ireland, Portugal, Greece, Spain as Brussels really forces others to balance their books will shit on the "social justice" smoke screen and lies.

All those new powers the Scottish Parliament will gain are going to be given away.

It makes you wonder do people think about the detail or is it just flags?

 

 

[aaid]

15 minutes ago, Alan said:

Sweden has cunningly avoided the euro and stalled so much they will keep the Krona. However a new state like Scotland with no currency will be consumed by the euro as all recent new joiners have. 

All recent new joiners?  Since EU enlargement seven countries are yet to adopt the Euro and have no firm plans to do so, only six have adopted it.  

Admit it, the "you'll have to join the Euro" is a complete load of baloney. 

[Pool Q]

2 hours ago, Parklife said:

Something along the lines of 

"It's great to be doing this in such wonderful surroundings. Which is unusual as Scots are normally put in places where they can't break or steal anything"

 

That seems a remarkably dumb thing for a senior politician to come out with. Probably got a laugh though. 

[thplinth]

3 hours ago, Parklife said:

Unfortunately, a lot of ordinary folk have evil beliefs, just like Ruth Davidson and her party do. 

Just passing but I would rather say propaganda simply works, like advertising it just does whether you like it or not. If it did not rich powerful people would not be buying newspapers when they seemingly make little money and have little future. You mix a little truth in with the lies and folk lap it up man.

People go on about the EU or the currency being key but the difference last time (2014) was IMHO the wall to wall propaganda versus almost nothing from the YES side. All that tells you is that YES was almost universally a good thing... Brexit had some support, Trump has some support, but YES had almost nothing, it was amazing how uniform it was.  

This is why I say the mass media are a bigger corruption issue than the politicians. And a lot more touchable as well. All this pish about freedom of the press is laughable. They have been hiding behind that freedom protection pish while being sold out hoors of the most depraved kind for decades at least but probably far longer. Watching the media today with all our modern digital advantages to spot their lies they are still mind bendingly dishonest. Can you imagine what it must have been like in say the 1930's when they pumped up the whole world into a war. Or the one before... Why would you think they were honest then and went bad recently?! For sure it was far worse than now and now is incredibly horrendous. Been an eye opener this life.

[the_fadiator]

5 hours ago, Alan said:

Sweden has cunningly avoided the euro and stalled so much they will keep the Krona. However a new state like Scotland with no currency will be consumed by the euro as all recent new joiners have. So if you were to retire and move back to Ayrshire like an emotional Tennents Lager advert your house profit and pension would be GBP v EUR. You'd do well out of it right now. In fact shipping up now could work. JP Morgan, Barclays Wealth, Morgan Stanley, BNP Paribas in Glasgow all within a commute.

Then you have turbo austerity like Ireland, Portugal, Greece, Spain as Brussels really forces others to balance their books will shit on the "social justice" smoke screen and lies.

All those new powers the Scottish Parliament will gain are going to be given away.

It makes you wonder do people think about the detail or is it just flags?

 

 

You should read and understand the Maastricht Treaty and the eurozone convergence criteria. After that, realise how many EU members, including relatively new members, are not using the Euro and why that is. After that, you might know why Scotland wouldn't "be consumed by the euro" as a new member. Finally, you can then start to question all politicians and commentators peddling misleading information on the euro.

 

 

[Toepoke]

This would certainly cause a stooshie...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14781802.Westminster_could_unilaterally_axe_devolved_laws_post_Brexit__expert_warns/

 

[Alibi]

That headline in the Telegraph has set alarm bells ringing.  The Tories and Brexiteers aren't actually Nazis of course, far from it, (maybe a few exceptions to that) but they are consumed by rampant xenophobia that is almost like a watered down version of the 1930s.  We really need to get out of it pronto.

[neilser]

4 hours ago, Alibi said:

That headline in the Telegraph has set alarm bells ringing.  The Tories and Brexiteers aren't actually Nazis of course, far from it, (maybe a few exceptions to that) but they are consumed by rampant xenophobia that is almost like a watered down version of the 1930s.  We really need to get out of it pronto.

I was thinking the same after I read this

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/05/this-is-what-theresa-mays-tory-britain-will-look-like

An end to internationalism, troops freed up to abuse human rights without worrying about the consequences, kids getting trained to be soldiers, EU citizens in the UK to be treated as pawns in negotiations and the employment and education of foreigners discouraged.

How the f uck did we end up here?

 

Edited October 5, 2016 by neilser

[Orraloon]

4 hours ago, Toepoke said:

This would certainly cause a stooshie...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14781802.Westminster_could_unilaterally_axe_devolved_laws_post_Brexit__expert_warns/

 

They could do that with or without Brexit. "Power devolved is power retained" and awe that.

 

[stocky]

On 10/4/2016 at 3:36 PM, Alan said:

Sweden has cunningly avoided the euro and stalled so much they will keep the Krona. However a new state like Scotland with no currency will be consumed by the euro as all recent new joiners have. So if you were to retire and move back to Ayrshire like an emotional Tennents Lager advert your house profit and pension would be GBP v EUR. You'd do well out of it right now. In fact shipping up now could work. JP Morgan, Barclays Wealth, Morgan Stanley, BNP Paribas in Glasgow all within a commute.

Then you have turbo austerity like Ireland, Portugal, Greece, Spain as Brussels really forces others to balance their books will shit on the "social justice" smoke screen and lies.

All those new powers the Scottish Parliament will gain are going to be given away.

It makes you wonder do people think about the detail or is it just flags?

 

 

well we know for you its all about Flags...  the rest i am not sure about...

[hampden_loon2878]

A very worrying underlying tone to the tory conference today, they have more or less merged into ukip,,, scary times lie ahead 

[thewelk]

The most vehemently anti independence 'friend' on my facebook just declared he would vote for independence if there was a referendum tomorrow. This isn't a brain dead mouth breathing Rule Britannia footballl fan unionist, this guy is a well educated middle class "i'm alright jack" unionist. If he's now changing his mind I've got no doubt that significant things are happening.