EU Referendum

[Toepoke]

1 hour ago, ErsatzThistle said:

What a shower of useless, lying kunts those Liberals are.

So much for them being most Europhile party eh?

[ErsatzThistle]

3 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

So much for them being most Europhile party eh?

Aye, especially when Farron was all over the TV earlier this morning espousing a pro-EU message and the Lib Dems supposedly being the party for Remain voters.

Rennie is a snake.

[mariokempes56]

55 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Aye, especially when Farron was all over the TV earlier this morning espousing a pro-EU message and the Lib Dems supposedly being the party for Remain voters.

Rennie is a snake.

Much lower than a snake...odious shiit

[Flure]

Richard Lochhead @RichardLochhead

2h

Tory PM seemed to imply Spanish access to Scottish fishing grounds could be negotiated. That'll go down like a bucket of rotten fish.#Brexit

[kumnio]

10 minutes ago, Flure said:

Richard Lochhead @RichardLochhead

2h

Tory PM seemed to imply Spanish access to Scottish fishing grounds could be negotiated. That'll go down like a bucket of rotten fish.#Brexit

Quite surely I wouldnt be alone in finding that funny as hell.

[Flure]

15 minutes ago, kumnio said:

Quite surely I wouldnt be alone in finding that funny as hell.

Now, now.

Don't look back. Look forward. There is no greater joy in heaven.......and all that.

[aaid]

4 hours ago, EddardStark said:

May has effectively neutralized EU's main leverage by stating she is willing to go with a hard Brexit on the basis no deal is better than poor deal. Could be a massive bluff on May's behalf.

 

It's a complete bluff.  No deal is the absolute worst set of terms they can get.  Anything they can negotiate with the EU will be de facto better than that.  it might not be a good deal, but it will be better than no deal and trading under WTO rules.   The bluff of course, is that no deal will also be the worst case scenario for the EU.

It's a case of who blinks first.

 

[Guest flumax]

2 hours ago, Toepoke said:

So much for them being most Europhile party eh?

the only glimpse of power they've had in modern times was the lapdogs to tory masters in the 2005 coalition... Why bite their hand. 

[antidote]

54 minutes ago, aaid said:

It's a complete bluff.  No deal is the absolute worst set of terms they can get.  Anything they can negotiate with the EU will be de facto better than that.  it might not be a good deal, but it will be better than no deal and trading under WTO rules.   The bluff of course, is that no deal will also be the worst case scenario for the EU.

It's a case of who blinks first.

 

My sentiments exactly. 

[antidote]

2 hours ago, Flure said:

Richard Lochhead @RichardLochhead

2h

Tory PM seemed to imply Spanish access to Scottish fishing grounds could be negotiated. That'll go down like a bucket of rotten fish.#Brexit

I'm sure Hampden will be happy about that. 

[Ally Bongo]

[hampden_loon2878]

9 hours ago, antidote said:

I'm sure Hampden will be happy about that. 

 

The only part that will make me happy is the look on the tory mafias face if or when this happens, they are so fixated on the snp they miss the danger on their own doorstep,, 

[aaid]

At PMQs today, in response to a question from Angus Robertson, the PM gave this response.

Quote

His party is dedicated to taking Scotland out of the Single Market by taking it out of the UK.

Which of course now makes absolutely no sense whatsoever given that the UK is leaving the Single Market.  Just as she got to the end of that, she had a bit of a stutter and stammer which was obviously the brain kicking in and realising that this stock response to the SNP was now total bollocks.

[irnbruman]

I thought Corbyn actually did well in laying into May as well  -she comes across as pretty weak just repeating the mantra . However on the Daily Politics we then switch back to that arsehole Laura Kuensberg - yet another BBC Political editor who has an agenda  - this time just massively anti-Corbyn.

[Ally Bongo]

Surely there comes a time where there is no further empathy or understanding with Unionists/British Nationalists ?

[mariokempes56]

10 minutes ago, aaid said:

At PMQs today, in response to a question from Angus Robertson, the PM gave this response.

Which of course now makes absolutely no sense whatsoever given that the UK is leaving the Single Market.  Just as she got to the end of that, she had a bit of a stutter and stammer which was obviously the brain kicking in and realising that this stock response to the SNP was now total bollocks.

Exactly - she has a stock response to any SNP comment and reality is, as we all know, she couldnt give a monkeys.

[scoobydoo]

Surely now, for anyone with any degree of Scottishness about them has to tell the UK to FO.

It's always bothered me how anyone can call themselves a proud scot but allow themselves to be telt what to do by another country.

[Alibi]

17 minutes ago, scoobydoo said:

Surely now, for anyone with any degree of Scottishness about them has to tell the UK to FO.

It's always bothered me how anyone can call themselves a proud scot but allow themselves to be telt what to do by another country.

Spot on.  Remember J.K.Rowling's analogy about Scotland being like a spouse about to walk out but who decided to give it one last go?  Her assertion that Scotland would be calling the shots and would get anything asked for?  I wonder if she still believes that shite.  The truth of the matter is that Scotland is an abused spouse, constantly told they are no good, that they can't manage on their own and that if they leave they will be on their uppers.  The "proudscotbuts" seem to have a form of Stockholm syndrome, and they are certainly in denial about the reality of Scotland's place in the UK.  I think though that a significant number who are default unionists rather than hardcore may start to see the light now.  We'll never persuade the loyalist type of unionist but there is a middle ground that will surely be prepared to get off their knees.

Anyone who votes No in indyref 2 should just stop calling themselves Scottish; they should use the term "British" and never again try to play the dual nested nationality card.

[Auld_Reekie]

50 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Surely there comes a time where there is no further empathy or understanding with Unionists/British Nationalists ?

There needs to be empathy more than ever IMO. The chances of winning over a No voter is almost always massively improved if the Yes campaigner manages to resist any hint of smugness or superiority complex. Many Unionists are probably now sitting in their bunker having defended the Union for the best part of 4 years and wondering how it has come to this. You dont get them out the trenches by pointing the finger and exasperated finger-pointing when they try and explain their previous position and their concerns. Because they'll be bang on the money when they point out currency was (and still is) a huge weakness and the SNP and wider Yes campaign have done next to f***-all about it (probably because they assumed, not entirely unreasonably, that they had more time to consider options). And they'll have a very valid point when they highlight the fact that rUK market is the most important to Scotland. These are reasonable objections and it isn't sufficient to react with rage and scream "But Brexit!".

Absolutely certain we're looking at another referendum in 2018, possibly March. That would allow a year of negotiations to materialise, with a year to get our $hit sorted after a Yes vote. This means we've got the best part of a year to get working on No voters and already there are a worrying number of Yes supporters frothing at the mouth, being a bit shouty about it all, and being driven by emotion rather than intellect.

Our game needs to be lifted since the one we played in 2014, and substantially on the one we've played since then. We've got more strings to our bow and it's massively important we don't forget the lessons of 2014. Some we've barely started (such as currency), but we're well versed in the need to fight a positive, inclusive, respectful campaign.

If we can't win this next one given that absolute $hit-fest that UK politics finds itself, there really will be little hope left. Let's not f*** it up by going all William Wallace on the electorate. Got to be smarter than that.

[Alibi]

Regarding currency, I suspect that the rUK might be fairly desperate for an indy Scotland to use the £ although they would probably deny that as a campaign tactic.  If we leave and take our wealth with us, the £ is going to be put under even more pressure.  Isn't it strange how after decades of a strong currency being a good thing, the Brexiteers are now saying a weak currency is a good thing - maybe if you are a net exporter, but not the case if you have a balance of payments deficit.

My inclination is a Scottish currency, possibly pegged to the £ but not necessarily.  Might be better pegged to the $ or the euro.  Now that we use plastic mostly, I'm not sure that the need for physical currency is quite as strong - when I go abroad I just use a card or get some local cash out the ATM.  Does it really matter that much which currency we use?

[andymac]

13 minutes ago, Alibi said:

Regarding currency, I suspect that the rUK might be fairly desperate for an indy Scotland to use the £ although they would probably deny that as a campaign tactic.  If we leave and take our wealth with us, the £ is going to be put under even more pressure.  Isn't it strange how after decades of a strong currency being a good thing, the Brexiteers are now saying a weak currency is a good thing - maybe if you are a net exporter, but not the case if you have a balance of payments deficit.

My inclination is a Scottish currency, possibly pegged to the £ but not necessarily.  Might be better pegged to the $ or the euro.  Now that we use plastic mostly, I'm not sure that the need for physical currency is quite as strong - when I go abroad I just use a card or get some local cash out the ATM.  Does it really matter that much which currency we use?

Yes. You do realise that it is not about the piece of paper but the ability of the country of origin to honour the debt? If a country is not in control of its currency it has control of whether that will be honoured,

Try Mexico in the 80s, nobody would accept plastic issued from there.

the argument needs a viable, tradable currency.

 

 

[aaid]

3 minutes ago, andymac said:

Yes. You do realise that it is not about the piece of paper but the ability of the country of origin to honour the debt? If a country is not in control of its currency it has control of whether that will be honoured,

Try Mexico in the 80s, nobody would accept plastic issued from there.

the argument needs a viable, tradable currency.

 

 

And a pro-rate share of the UK's currency reserves would more than cover that.

[andymac]

Equally, using the currency of another nation is pretty crap. 

Using Sterling if your social and economic policy is divergent from the currency's owner means that you severely limited in your choices and actions.

[antidote]

27 minutes ago, Alibi said:

Regarding currency, I suspect that the rUK might be fairly desperate for an indy Scotland to use the £ although they would probably deny that as a campaign tactic.  If we leave and take our wealth with us, the £ is going to be put under even more pressure.  Isn't it strange how after decades of a strong currency being a good thing, the Brexiteers are now saying a weak currency is a good thing - maybe if you are a net exporter, but not the case if you have a balance of payments deficit.

My inclination is a Scottish currency, possibly pegged to the £ but not necessarily.  Might be better pegged to the $ or the euro.  Now that we use plastic mostly, I'm not sure that the need for physical currency is quite as strong - when I go abroad I just use a card or get some local cash out the ATM.  Does it really matter that much which currency we use?

Maybe things like this have got them afraid.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04c0c7y?ns_mchannel=social&

[Parklife]

1 hour ago, irnbruman said:

I thought Corbyn actually did well in laying into May as well  -she comes across as pretty weak just repeating the mantra . However on the Daily Politics we then switch back to that arsehole Laura Kuensberg - yet another BBC Political editor who has an agenda  - this time just massively anti-Corbyn.

He always destroys her at PMQ's.

Every. Single. Week.