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It also shows Westminster is willing to dump Northern Ireland from the UK IMO

Loyal and true

As for us - they need our oil

 

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Cat amongst pigeons ..

 

BREAKING: EU27 leaders have accepted Ireland's declaration that in the event of unity referendum Northern Ireland wd automatically rejoin EU

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Not looking good for staying in EU after this week. It's clear that the EU is going to be monstered by the British media over the next 2 years, with almost no voice (as per usual) from the other side. People like Juncker are a gift to the Eurosceptics, and he is playing into their hands acting the part of the 'arrogant brussels bureaucrat'. May is already getting plaudits - and apparently winning votes - for standing up to him. As with the council elections, no one is scrutinising policies on their merits, just voting on gut reaction in the perceived interests of the country. TV shows Labour voters saying they are switching to Tory because May is standing up for Britain. The Lib Dems have struggled to capitalise on the pro-EU vote. As time goes on it's easy to see support for the EU dwindle. Many 'Remainers' might have once have sympathised with the EU laying down a few home truths to those nasty deluded brexiteers, but as time goes on, it's hard not to see sympathy for the EU eroding. A big Brexit divorce bill was once a weapon for the remainers - a deterrent against leaving - but it's now more likely to be a weapon for the Brexiteers. I'm not saying support for EU will collapse but it looks likely to erode, as people will settle for the new status quo, and 'patriotism' comes to play a bigger role in future elections.

On the face of it this could erode support for the 'independence in Europe' position. On the other hand, even if support for the EU melted away, it simply resets the game, to a straight fight between independence and being part of the UK that it will have become. Groups such as (ex)EU citizens, internationalists and social democrats would have a new choice to make.

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6 hours ago, exile said:

Not looking good for staying in EU after this week. It's clear that the EU is going to be monstered by the British media over the next 2 years, with almost no voice (as per usual) from the other side. People like Juncker are a gift to the Eurosceptics, and he is playing into their hands acting the part of the 'arrogant brussels bureaucrat'. May is already getting plaudits - and apparently winning votes - for standing up to him. As with the council elections, no one is scrutinising policies on their merits, just voting on gut reaction in the perceived interests of the country. TV shows Labour voters saying they are switching to Tory because May is standing up for Britain. The Lib Dems have struggled to capitalise on the pro-EU vote. As time goes on it's easy to see support for the EU dwindle. Many 'Remainers' might have once have sympathised with the EU laying down a few home truths to those nasty deluded brexiteers, but as time goes on, it's hard not to see sympathy for the EU eroding. A big Brexit divorce bill was once a weapon for the remainers - a deterrent against leaving - but it's now more likely to be a weapon for the Brexiteers. I'm not saying support for EU will collapse but it looks likely to erode, as people will settle for the new status quo, and 'patriotism' comes to play a bigger role in future elections.

On the face of it this could erode support for the 'independence in Europe' position. On the other hand, even if support for the EU melted away, it simply resets the game, to a straight fight between independence and being part of the UK that it will have become. Groups such as (ex)EU citizens, internationalists and social democrats would have a new choice to make.

Our fate in Europe has already been sealed in Europe and before another referendum comes along we will have been feeling the full effects of a Hard Brexit. That will be a very sobering thought to people when they vote next time. Sure during Brexit negotiations (we've already seen it on both sides) there will be posturing and my chief worry is the gullibility of voters. May will continue on her path playing up to the anti-European supporters acting like Nigel Farage in a cheap frock without recriminations as the media will paint her actions in a favourable light and make it into an 'us and them' issue. Gullible voters will lap up the media stance and take it as a given whatever the press write. It could come down to what is more important to people - their wish to remain in the UK disconnected from Europe with watered down clout and deals or being independent and a chance to right the wrongs of Brexit whether that is within or outside the EU. 

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  • 1 month later...

So for all the tough talking and rhetoric the UK government has caved on day one of the negotiations.

Citizens, Divorce Bill and Ireland and then trade and ongoing relationship.

IE. Exactly what the EU said would be the order.

Edited by aaid
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42 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

Disgraceful stuff.

May, Gove, Drunken-Smiff and Fox have no mandate to be doing this to our country.

And has anyone else noticed that Jacob Most-Smug has vanished from the public eye lately?

Spoke too soon - Most-Smug has just popped up on Sky News.

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  • 2 weeks later...
10 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Well if folk want an insight about what the Brexit negotiations will be like just listen to this interview with the ex-Greek Finance Minister.... The way they do business is shocking.

His book is an absolute steal on Kindle right now.

https://www.amazon.com/Adults-Room-Battle-Europes-Establishment-ebook/dp/B01ICK4IWK

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/03/the-six-brexit-traps-that-will-defeat-theresa-may

I mind reading the above a while back from Vafoufakis above how the negotiations will go. 

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11 minutes ago, Parklife said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/03/the-six-brexit-traps-that-will-defeat-theresa-may

I mind reading the above a while back from Vafoufakis above how the negotiations will go. 

The EU are going to be a nightmare I have no doubt about that now. May by calling a snap election and losing has weakened herself so badly that she has put the whole country in serious risk of a terrible deal. The tories have utterly fhucked the UK. Still the SNP lost seats so everything is just marvelous. Arseholes.

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The Tory arrogance continues to roll along , take the following points -

1 - Cameron  so sure of winning a referendum to stay in Europe that he puts it to the people vote  -  Lost

2 - May so sure of winning a general election and gaining a larger  majority she puts it to the people - Lost 

3 - A Tory led negotiating team going for a "hard brexit "  -  I think we can see a general pattern here !!!!!

I have not seen such a fecked up government since the 70's , you have a Tory government being propped up by 10 NI loyalists who get £1;5 billion extra and by Scotland  [13 MP's]  who get feck all !!!

The EU will have a field day with that mob and as  "The Hurricane said to the coconut tree -  Hold onto your nuts as this is going to be some blow" .  

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22 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Vafoufakis is a sell out. Easy to say what should be done after you've not not did it and wrote books about it. 

I think it was the Prime Minister (Tsipras) who was the one who caved on him and so he resigned. Only in the job a few months... 

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I am not sure that makes him a sell out. He says joining the euro was a mistake not joining the EU. It was debt restructuring / relief that Greece needed and when that was not going to happen and his own government caved he quit. It was not about being in the EU. He wanted the UK to stay in to help democratize the EU which he believes is the better solution than leaving it. I don't agree with a lot of his politics (very left wing) but I do think he is telling the truth in his descriptions on 'negotiating' with the troika. And I think it will be similar for the UK, not as bad as we are much stronger and more important as trading partner than Greece, but in essence we will be treated the same is my guess. Brexit cannot be allowed to be seen as a success, they will never allow that to happen. The people in charge of the EU are disgraceful they really are. They way they operate is ridiculous. The EU is ed if it keeps going the way it is. Merkel especially is doing incredible damage to it.

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I got his book for my birthday

Yanis Varoufakis "and the weak suffer what they must"

Not read it yet but scanning the front of it, he was already writing the books  before he was elected to his position as finance minister.Then served 6 months and resigned as he couldn't come to an agreement with the EU.

 

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25 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

I may be wrong but I remember him saying Ihe toured the U.K. campaigning against Brexit

He did campaign against Brexit. His personal philosophy is to change the EU, not leave it.

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The EU is a collective of 27 nations. As result it will always be mad as box of frogs.
The fact they can find agreement or consensus on anything is incredible....

Ironically in the 1980s the Tories (under Thatcher) didn't want the EU to be democratic as they thought it would distract from each nations sovereign parliament!

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Just now, Haggis_trap said:

The EU is a collective of 27 nations. As result it will always be mad as box of frogs.
The fact they can find agreement or consensus on anything is incredible....

Ironically in the 1980s the Tories (under Thatcher) didn't want the EU to be democratic as they thought it would distract from each nations sovereign parliament!

It's democratic? Like the UK is a union of 4 nations?;)

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