Hillsborough Inquest

[Toepoke]

Astonishing TV. Absolutely harrowing though.

Simultaneous tears of sadness and rage welling up.

Edited May 8, 2016 by Toepoke

[bonzo]

Paul Middup hope he can sleep at night. Don't think I've been as angry watching someone on TV 

[G-Man]

1 hour ago, bonzo said:

Paul Middup hope he can sleep at night. Don't think I've been as angry watching someone on TV 

He really looked as though he relished making those statements. 

[Toepoke]

I intended watching Sportscene afterwards but just didn't have the stomach for the fitba. Really knocked the wind out me that programme...

[Guest allyc]

For years I felt like the families were looking for someone to blame.but the level of corruption and cover ups was astounding.absolutely draining for families to get knocked down again and again.images of that day are absolutely horrific and even after this time will live long in memory.the newspapers were covered in close ups of the crowd,I remember looking at them in wm low in Perth and feeling sick to the stomach at the time....

Most emotional part of that documentary for me was at the memorial when 30000 started sing 'justice for the 96'..

Edited May 9, 2016 by allyc
.

[Angus_Young]

7 hours ago, G-Man said:

He really looked as though he relished making those statements. 

I think the word 'cretin' was invented for filth like him. 

Duckenfield's initial lie regarding gate 'C' being opened was sickening. How the feck he thought he would get away with that I don't know. 

Only when the lot if them feel the full force of the law, will justice truly be done imo. 

[Toepoke]

Absolutely chilling seeing the footage of the tunnel leading directly to those central pens. Like something out of a concentration camp.

Different times I know, but that ground should never have been hosting a match of that magnitude...

[sbcmfc]

1 hour ago, Toepoke said:

Absolutely chilling seeing the footage of the tunnel leading directly to those central pens. Like something out of a concentration camp.

Different times I know, but that ground should never have been hosting a match of that magnitude...

I had commented further back on this, but as far as I could see, that is still there, it's just seated now.

Not sure if that houses home or away fans, but would send a shiver down your spine walking through that tunnel and sitting on that terrace!

My wife and I could barely speak to each other by the end of the documentary. Every time you find out more about it, it really makes the whole thing worse.

It's sad to say, but even having read quite a lot about it and watched similar programmes in the past, mud sticks, and "the lie" worked, as while I knew a lot of the other circumstances, I always had a presumption that Liverpool fans played some part.

[Toepoke]

1 hour ago, sbcmfc said:

It's sad to say, but even having read quite a lot about it and watched similar programmes in the past, mud sticks, and "the lie" worked, as while I knew a lot of the other circumstances, I always had a presumption that Liverpool fans played some part.

I guess the Liverpool support was an easy target to vilify so soon after Heysel...

[Stapes]

Harrowing stuff. A few things stood out for me.

• The police sarcastically asking the parents of a dead boy if he was a virgin when told he didn't smoke or drink
• Stuart-Smith laughing at the parents turning up late 'not like people from Liverpool to do that'
• The inspector telling the PCs not to fill in their notebooks, and the sergeant telling them 'Fk him, fill in absolutely everything'
• The police who were there were simply following orders (or no orders as it was) and suffered from PTSD afterwards. There was the one story of the PC who just started sobbing at the scene when asked how many were dead.
• The sanitisation of the police statements
• The scenes of kids crushed up against the barriers

Overall though, a perfect example of the lengths the establishment will go to to protect itself - from Thatcher, Straw and Ingham, on down to the police inspectors.

Even my 13 year old couldn't take his eyes off the screen, and he never watches anything other than YouTube.

[Angus_Young]

6 hours ago, sbcmfc said:

I had commented further back on this, but as far as I could see, that is still there, it's just seated now.

Not sure if that houses home or away fans, but would send a shiver down your spine walking through that tunnel and sitting on that terrace!

My wife and I could barely speak to each other by the end of the documentary. Every time you find out more about it, it really makes the whole thing worse.

It's sad to say, but even having read quite a lot about it and watched similar programmes in the past, mud sticks, and "the lie" worked, as while I knew a lot of the other circumstances, I always had a presumption that Liverpool fans played some part.

It is away fans that it's used for, I was down there with Rangers in 2013. As far as I know the stand itself is pretty much the same as it was, other than seats being added and various things being modernised as you would expect. Quite an eerie feeling as you approached the stand I must say. 

I didn't realise until last night that there was an incident in 1981. 

[sbcmfc]

43 minutes ago, Angus_Young said:

I didn't realise until last night that there was an incident in 1981. 

I missed the start of the programme last night, so it may have been mentioned, but I'm sure I read somewhere that there had been warning signs at the 1988 semi between Liverpool and Notts Forrest st Hillsborough.

[Angus_Young]

9 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

I missed the start of the programme last night, so it may have been mentioned, but I'm sure I read somewhere that there had been warning signs at the 1988 semi between Liverpool and Notts Forrest st Hillsborough.

They showed footage of the '81 game where Spurs fans at the front were allowed through the fences and watched the game sitting at the side of the pitch just behind the goal line. Apparently this was very similar to the disaster in '89 in that Gate C was opened due to a crush outside.

'88 was mentioned but interestingly didn't talk about the crush or the letter that a fan sent to The FA complaining about it. It was mentioned at the point Duckenfield was being chastised for failing to block off the tunnel once the two central pens reached capacity, stating that in the '88 this had been done (and suggesting that there were no issues). A quick look tells you that's not quite the case with fans reporting that they struggled to breath at that game. 

[McTeeko]

A big factor in the disaster was Duckenfield getting drafted in last minute, replacing the previous chief (can't mind his name) who was moved to another region after the story of a couple of cops involved in a prank hit the headlines when one of the cops put in a formal complaint. 

The chief who was moved was a football fan, knew the stadium, had worked at Hillborough for years, knew football fans and was respected.

Duckenfield came in, held his safety brief and mentioned the game between Liverpool and Nottinghamshire ?

[Toepoke]

3 hours ago, Angus_Young said:

They showed footage of the '81 game where Spurs fans at the front were allowed through the fences and watched the game sitting at the side of the pitch just behind the goal line. Apparently this was very similar to the disaster in '89 in that Gate C was opened due to a crush outside.

Fortunately for the Spurs fans the pen fencing hadn't been installed at that time.

What madman thought that was a good idea?

[macy37]

Just watched it last night.

not ashamed to say tears were shed. 

What a disgrace what went on.

 

[EddardStark]

33 minutes ago, macy37 said:

Just watched it last night.

not ashamed to say tears were shed. 

What a disgrace what went on.

 

Watched half off it last night  Chilling and heartbreaking. Some of the images of crushed bodies and those still alive desperately reaching up to be pulled free are so horrific.

[Parklife]

6 hours ago, Toepoke said:

Fortunately for the Spurs fans the pen fencing hadn't been installed at that time.

What madman thought that was a good idea?

Pen fencing with spikes on the top, so very difficult to climb. 

[littleboyblue]

There were so many failings, which all contributed to the disaster and undoubtedly there was human error from SYP but more than anything the design of the stadium and the approach to it contributed.  The approach was what it was of course but the planning was inadequate to handle the amount of people who needed to use that entrance.

Those dividing fence on the terrace were crazy though.  Presumably 10,100 fans was a safe number for that size of terrace but the uneven distribution was the problem.  The majority fans just did what came naturally - head for the tunnel immediately in front of the turnstile and in line of sight.  Many probably didn't even know there were other tunnels to the left and right.  However, even allowing for that, as the Prof. guy (I think) was saying, had those dividing fences not been there the crowd would have naturally evened itself out, through either a conscious choice by some to move, or even simply by the movement of the crowd, to the left and right.

Its horrible seeing the images of the empty terrace knowing how many people were crammed in there - the central 'pens' didn't even look that big - absolutely horrific.  Even hearing them referred to as pens is horrible as it conjures up images of people being herded in to a small area and is indicative of how football fans seem to have been treated then.

I do remember the day itself - I would have been 10, the same age as the youngest boy who dies - but of course the details we now know for certain were a long way from coming out and I'm sad to say I probably believed some of the lies about fans' behaviour being a factor.

[Squirrelhumper]

7 hours ago, macy37 said:

Just watched it last night.

not ashamed to say tears were shed. 

What a disgrace what went on.

 

Likewise, watched it last night too.

Really uncomfortable viewing.

[Squirrelhumper]

6 minutes ago, littleboyblue said:

 

I do remember the day itself - I would have been 10, the same age as the youngest boy who dies - but of course the details we now know for certain were a long way from coming out and I'm sad to say I probably believed some of the lies about fans' behaviour being a factor.

That 10 year old lad was Steven Gerrard's cousin. 

I'm sure that;s why he usually ran to the corner of Anfield where the memorial is when he scored at the Kop end. I'm sure i've read that before. 

[Angus_Young]

1 hour ago, littleboyblue said:

There were so many failings, which all contributed to the disaster and undoubtedly there was human error from SYP but more than anything the design of the stadium and the approach to it contributed.  The approach was what it was of course but the planning was inadequate to handle the amount of people who needed to use that entrance.

Those dividing fence on the terrace were crazy though.  Presumably 10,100 fans was a safe number for that size of terrace but the uneven distribution was the problem.  The majority fans just did what came naturally - head for the tunnel immediately in front of the turnstile and in line of sight.  Many probably didn't even know there were other tunnels to the left and right.  However, even allowing for that, as the Prof. guy (I think) was saying, had those dividing fences not been there the crowd would have naturally evened itself out, through either a conscious choice by some to move, or even simply by the movement of the crowd, to the left and right.

Its horrible seeing the images of the empty terrace knowing how many people were crammed in there - the central 'pens' didn't even look that big - absolutely horrific.  Even hearing them referred to as pens is horrible as it conjures up images of people being herded in to a small area and is indicative of how football fans seem to have been treated then.

I do remember the day itself - I would have been 10, the same age as the youngest boy who dies - but of course the details we now know for certain were a long way from coming out and I'm sad to say I probably believed some of the lies about fans' behaviour being a factor.

Spot on with all of this. The extensive study and research has allowed them to estimate only 500 fans without tickets and/or tickets for other areas of the ground got in there. No where near the scale that was suggested by the authorities and for an area that held 10k it really wouldnt have made significant difference. 

The images showing the crowd 20 minutes from kick off were difficult to watch. Even from the main camera you could see the overcrowding in the central pens. All you can see is faces  they are packed so tightly. To think those poor supporters were stuck like that for well over half an hour  really doesn't bear thinking about. 

[Angus_Young]

1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said:

That 10 year old lad was Steven Gerrard's cousin. 

I'm sure that;s why he usually ran to the corner of Anfield where the memorial is when he scored at the Kop end. I'm sure i've read that before. 

Jon-paul Gilhooley. His two uncles that took him to the Match survived. Must be particularly harrowing for them. 

[saintsparky]

Watched this last night as well. Really unbelievable the cover up that went on, almost from the very beginning.

The worst bit was ordering the police to stand in a line across the pitch to prevent Forest fans coming on to possibly start trouble.....that was unforgivable!!

I was at Saints v Rangers semi final at Parkead that day. I remember coming out of the ground and hearing all the news reports. All the pubs in Perth that night were showing the scenes on the TV's and No-one could believe it. It was a very sombre atmosphere all night.....

 

[HIGHTOWER 1314]

I was down at the hillsborough memorial service this year and took my wife for the first time and it was an emotional experience to say the least.We watched the documentary on sunday and i sat for 2 hours with tears in my eyes and although my wife never showed any tears i am sure she was the same.What happened that day in 89 could and should have been avoided but for duckenfield and his cohorts horrendous organisation.The lies that have been told over 27 years to cover up for the mistakes is unforgivable and those involved deserve whats coming to them.The families have fought a brave fight for justice for their loved ones and the establishment thought the people of liverpool would give up.WRONG.     JUSTICE FOR THE 96.YNWA

Edited May 10, 2016 by HIGHTOWER 1314