Labour polling behind the tories

[Orraloon]

36 minutes ago, thplinth said:

The behaviour of Labour on the TAMB reflects the behaviour of Labour in the country. They are totally obsessed with attacking their perceived enemies to the point they are unable to address their own huge deficiencies. 

But is not just that... the Bain Principle is quite amazing when you ponder it... they would vote down a good proposal for Scotland just because it was proposed by the SNP.

So where on their list of priorities are the people of Scotland? Clearly not first (killing the SNP) and clearly not second (themselves). I don't even think it would be third (doing what HQ tell them).

Aye, and they don't even realise they are doing it. I'm not even sure that coming 3rd behind the Tories would be enough to wake them up.

[antidote]

42 minutes ago, thplinth said:

The behaviour of Labour on the TAMB reflects the behaviour of Labour in the country. They are totally obsessed with attacking their perceived enemies to the point they are unable to address their own huge deficiencies. 

But is not just that... the Bain Principle is quite amazing when you ponder it... they would vote down a good proposal for Scotland just because it was proposed by the SNP.

So where on their list of priorities are the people of Scotland? Clearly not first (killing the SNP) and clearly not second (themselves). I don't even think it would be third (doing what HQ tell them).

Are you saying that they were anti Scottish? 

[weekevie04]

As much as I dislike Labour, I don't know if I can bare seeing the likes of Murdo Fraser, David Mundell, Margaret Mitchell, and so on all crowing on TV about being the opposition on the 6th of May. So ideally, a shambolic showing from Labour, but they end up something like 22 MSPs and Tories do their usual 15% pish, please!

Also, Scottish hacks especially on Twitter - stopping trying to make Ruth Davidson happen. Trying to paint her up as a fun, joly Jock version of Farage doesn't disguise her awful party.

Edited April 28, 2016 by weekevie04

[FuNsTeR]

19 minutes ago, weekevie04 said:

As much as I dislike Labour, I don't know if I can bare seeing the likes of Murdo Fraser, David Mundell, Margaret Mitchell, and so on all crowing on TV about being the opposition on the 6th of May. So ideally, a shambolic showing from Labour, but they end up something like 22 MSPs and Tories do their usual 15% pish, please!

Also, Scottish hacks especially on Twitter - stopping trying to make Ruth Davidson happen. Trying to paint her up as a fun, joly Jock version of Farage doesn't disguise her awful party.

can't stand Davidson or her party she is a liar and a nasty bit of work 

 

Labour's problem is self inflicted they keep shooting themselves in the foot ... Scottish Labour (i know technically Scottish Labour does not exist) are more concerned with Westminster than they are for the people they are meant to represent back home in Scotland

[Maq]

.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Maq
Mistake

[Maq]

9 hours ago, Scunnered said:

  But she IS an arsehole. 

Never had you down as a woman abuser

[jockodile]

On the assumption Kezia is turfed in May after slipping Labour into 3rd, or at best scraping into 2nd it leaves their position very interesting. 

3 leaders within 18mths all having a mare since the defining moment of Sep 2014.

Anas could not u turn I dont think but there was a hint of possibility from Jenny Mara on QT the other month. Ruth jumped on it as selling the BT jerseys and she backed away.

But another shocker next month, a supposedly unelectable Corbyn according to political class in London etc.

One EU ref over, could  jenny mara or someone else have the courage to become pro indy and ref2 by 2020?

[Return of Yermaw]

12 hours ago, thplinth said:

The behaviour of Labour on the TAMB reflects the behaviour of Labour in the country. They are totally obsessed with attacking their perceived enemies to the point they are unable to address their own huge deficiencies. 

But is not just that... the Bain Principle is quite amazing when you ponder it... they would vote down a good proposal for Scotland just because it was proposed by the SNP.

So where on their list of priorities are the people of Scotland? Clearly not first (killing the SNP) and clearly not second (themselves). I don't even think it would be third (doing what HQ tell them).

this is SLAB's order of priorities:

1.  Labour Party UK;

2. UK;

3. Scotland.

[Parklife]

13 hours ago, thplinth said:

The behaviour of Labour on the TAMB reflects the behaviour of Labour in the country. They are totally obsessed with attacking their perceived enemies to the point they are unable to address their own huge deficiencies. 

But is not just that... the Bain Principle is quite amazing when you ponder it... they would vote down a good proposal for Scotland just because it was proposed by the SNP.

So where on their list of priorities are the people of Scotland? Clearly not first (killing the SNP) and clearly not second (themselves). I don't even think it would be third (doing what HQ tell them).

Who represents "Labour on the TAMB"? 

[deecie]

1 hour ago, Parklife said:

Who represents "Labour on the TAMB"? 

@LabourTAMB

[Orraloon]

5 hours ago, Parklife said:

Who represents "Labour on the TAMB"? 

Scunnered. He is voting for Jackie Bailie.

[ErsatzThistle]

Just noticed that Jim Leishman is number nine on the Mid Scotland and Fife list 

[PapofGlencoe]

Labour have had years to get a manifesto together.  They produce one with a week to go.  Utterly incompetent and disgraceful.

We need a proper Labour party for goodness sake.  I just don't think they have the personnel.  They're full of old cronies and they don't have the numbers or enthusiasm for the fight.

I despise the Tories but at least Ruth Davidson makes coherent critiques which we actually need. 

[aaid]

28 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Just noticed that Jim Leishman is number nine on the Mid Scotland and Fife list 

He's the Provost of Fife. 

[antidote]

1 hour ago, PapofGlencoe said:

Labour have had years to get a manifesto together.  They produce one with a week to go.  Utterly incompetent and disgraceful.

We need a proper Labour party for goodness sake.  I just don't think they have the personnel.  They're full of old cronies and they don't have the numbers or enthusiasm for the fight.

I despise the Tories but at least Ruth Davidson makes coherent critiques which we actually need. 

Could that be down to not allowing too much scrutiny and criticism of their policies in the remaining week?

[Orraloon]

3 hours ago, antidote said:

Could that be down to not allowing too much scrutiny and criticism of their policies in the remaining week?

I don't think they are astute enough to plan something like that. I think it is just total incompetence. Kez has probably been running around for the last fortnight shouting at folk "Where the fuk is my manifesto?"

 

[EddardStark]

Credit to Ruth Davidson. She has been pretty astute in the recent months in positioning the Tories as realistic opposition to SNP in Holyrood. Its about time the Scottish Tories re-engaged with what historically have been very strong foundations within  Scotland. Of course the complete car crash of the Labour and LD parties contribute to the upsurge in the Tories standing. I think the Tories would perform pretty well in an independent Scotland.

[aaid]

21 minutes ago, EddardStark said:

Credit to Ruth Davidson. She has been pretty astute in the recent months in positioning the Tories as realistic opposition to SNP in Holyrood. Its about time the Scottish Tories re-engaged with what historically have been very strong foundations within  Scotland. Of course the complete car crash of the Labour and LD parties contribute to the upsurge in the Tories standing. I think the Tories would perform pretty well in an independent Scotland.

There is no Tory upsurge, it's a total myth.   The reality is that they are currently polling towards the top of  range  - 13% to 20% - that they have since 1997 when they lost all their seats at the UK general election.

This is illustrated quite clearly here - http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/how-would-you-be-likely-to-use-your-regional-vote-in-a-scottish-parliament-elec#line

I'd agree with you that the whole "Ruth Davidson for a Stronger Opposition" is a pretty astute position to take, but it's all about attacking the weakness of Labour.  You'll notice that short of banging on about stopping a second referendum all the time - like she'd be able to do that anyway - she's not really attacking the SNP and even when there is an attack on SNP policy or record, it's usually more about Labour being weak in opposition.

This might work but if they do finish up next week as the largest party, it will be because Labour have slipped even further rather than some Tory revival.

What the politics of a post-Independent Scotland would look like is a whole different topic but I think it's safe to say that the "Tories" would probably do a lot better than the currently do for a couple of reasons. There is definitely support for a centre-right party in Scotland and having lost the toxicity in Scotland that the Tories have for many a party putting forwards "Scottish small-c conservative" policies would be attractive to many that would be put off voting for them, this would include a number of Independence supporters whose natural inclination is small-c conservatism, the agricultural community would be a good example.   

They might even do well enough to be the second biggest party on their own merits and not because the alternatives are so useless.

 

[Toepoke]

16 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Just noticed that Jim Leishman is number nine on the Mid Scotland and Fife list 

I thought he was a defender?...

[Orraloon]

2 hours ago, EddardStark said:

Credit to Ruth Davidson. She has been pretty astute in the recent months in positioning the Tories as realistic opposition to SNP in Holyrood. Its about time the Scottish Tories re-engaged with what historically have been very strong foundations within  Scotland. Of course the complete car crash of the Labour and LD parties contribute to the upsurge in the Tories standing. I think the Tories would perform pretty well in an independent Scotland.

Well, she seems to have convinced you anyway. Just because Ruthie says (over and and over and over again) that they are going to be 2nd doesn't mean it will definitely happen. She doesn't know any better than the rest of us, unless of course she has counted the postal ballots again? I still think somebody should have been prosecuted for that.

[The Laud]

On 29/04/2016 at 5:06 PM, ErsatzThistle said:

Just noticed that Jim Leishman is number nine on the Mid Scotland and Fife list 

An utter tit of a man.but its fife you never know.

[ErsatzThistle]

12 hours ago, Toepoke said:

I thought he was a defender?...

You bad man !

2 hours ago, The Laud said:

An utter tit of a man.but its fife you never know.

Leishman is "a national treasure" according to Chic Young. What did he do ?

[Ally Bongo]

Remember when we tried to tell folk that this Corbyn revolution was pie in the sky and were laughed at for suggesting the right wing media wouldnt let it get off the ground ?

Aye the SNP are the enemy ..................

 

[Orraloon]

3 hours ago, The Laud said:

An utter tit of a man.but its fife you never know.

There are only 7 seats and he is 9th on the list so I would guess his chances are slim.

[EddardStark]

23 hours ago, aaid said:

There is no Tory upsurge, it's a total myth.   The reality is that they are currently polling towards the top of  range  - 13% to 20% - that they have since 1997 when they lost all their seats at the UK general election.

This is illustrated quite clearly here - http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/how-would-you-be-likely-to-use-your-regional-vote-in-a-scottish-parliament-elec#line

I'd agree with you that the whole "Ruth Davidson for a Stronger Opposition" is a pretty astute position to take, but it's all about attacking the weakness of Labour.  You'll notice that short of banging on about stopping a second referendum all the time - like she'd be able to do that anyway - she's not really attacking the SNP and even when there is an attack on SNP policy or record, it's usually more about Labour being weak in opposition.

This might work but if they do finish up next week as the largest party, it will be because Labour have slipped even further rather than some Tory revival.

What the politics of a post-Independent Scotland would look like is a whole different topic but I think it's safe to say that the "Tories" would probably do a lot better than the currently do for a couple of reasons. There is definitely support for a centre-right party in Scotland and having lost the toxicity in Scotland that the Tories have for many a party putting forwards "Scottish small-c conservative" policies would be attractive to many that would be put off voting for them, this would include a number of Independence supporters whose natural inclination is small-c conservatism, the agricultural community would be a good example.   

They might even do well enough to be the second biggest party on their own merits and not because the alternatives are so useless.

 

Fair enough. I think Davidson is banging on about the referendum as she knows public opinion is still very much to remain within the union. 15/16 of the recent polls still have very much to maintain the Union. However what Davidson has done has to position the Tories as a party of choice within an increasingly devolved political landscape in Scotland and do her level best to draw a line between her and Cameron and the more toxic Westminster Tory Party.

http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/how-would-you-vote-in-the-in-the-scottish-independence-referendum-if-held-now-a#table