Ken Livingstone

[phart]

I see Ken Livingstone has been labelled antisemitic for saying Hitler supported Zionism. It seems to have caused quite a stir , John Mann went mental and called him "Nazi Apologist"

Here is what he said  "When Hitler won his election in 1932 his policy then was that Jews should be moved to Israel. He was supporting Zionism before he went mad and ended up killing six million Jews."

The Haavara Agreement in 1933 did exactly that, now of course wanting to rid Germany of Jews might have been the genesis of the idea. It's unclear.

It did happen though and to see the hysteria over a historical truth is amazing. We're pretty much fecked.

[Mox]

I find it astonishing that Labour have pandered to the right wing media and suspended him. How does the above quote in anyway shape or form come across as anti semitic? 

It would seem to me that in the last few weeks Corbyn has seen his popularity rise where as Cameron's has decreased as a result of the EU referendum, panama etc and this anti semitism is an easy stick with which to bash Labour. As for John Mann, he is a plamph of the highest order.

[thplinth]

Corbyn is weak and pathetic. He is an easy mark for them.

[Ally Bongo]

I agree with this

The Daily Rupert ‏@TheMurdochTimes 27m27 minutes ago

Biggest story in British media should be #Hillsborough cover-up and fallout.. Instead anti-Corbyn hysteria. Again. How pathetic.

 

[Only One Stop]

Anti Zionist or Anti Semitic? Or a right wing Tory press led smear campaign.

was the previous leader of Labour Party, Ed Milliband not Jewish, did all the Labour anti Semites just join when he resigned?

we live in a country that has part of its constitution banning a certain religion from being Prime Minister or from marrying into a Greco Germanic ruling family. 

 

[DaveyDenoon]

Who the hell is that hedge fund helmet?

What utter pish is coming out of his offensive gob

[aaid]

1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

I agree with this

The Daily Rupert ‏@TheMurdochTimes 27m27 minutes ago

Biggest story in British media should be #Hillsborough cover-up and fallout.. Instead anti-Corbyn hysteria. Again. How pathetic.

 

Hillsborough is a big enough story and won't be buried.  However, the story from today that has been smothered is that the Electoral Commision have requested that the police and CPS extend the time limit to investigate possible criminal charges in respect of the Tories election expenses scandal that Channel 4 broke a couple of weeks ago.

Labour are so useless, the Tories don't need to throw a dead cat on the table, they are doing it themselves. 

Edited April 28, 2016 by aaid

[Only One Stop]

26 minutes ago, DaveyDenoon said:

Who the hell is that hedge fund helmet?

What utter pish is coming out of his offensive gob

Part of the giant blood sucking vampire squid system. 

Quite happy to throw racial slurs about migrants and Scots, very defensive about any criticism of one particular ethnic/religious group though. 

[Only One Stop]

Paul Marshall hedge fund manager Wikipedia entry says he is father of Winston Marshall of Mumford and Sons. 

Would you appear to be an utter khunt who has fathered a khunt. 

A Liberal democrat apparently, could have fooled me, came across as an uber Tory, with all the sense of entitlement and hate that comes with it. 

[Topcat]

Caught a brief snippet of a Lord Levy interview this morning (Tony Bliar's tennis chum).

The tenet of his piece to camera was that anyone who criticised/questioned the state of Israel or it's politics were essentially hiding behind these statements as they were 100% anti-Jew and anti-semitic.

Completely and utterly outrageous.

Wonder what Levy's comments on this would be :

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/video-israeli-soldier-shoot-dead-injured-palestinian-youth-lying-on-ground-stabbing-attack-a6950021.html

[Only One Stop]

19 minutes ago, Topcat said:

Caught a brief snippet of a Lord Levy interview this morning (Tony Bliar's tennis chum).

The tenet of his piece to camera was that anyone who criticised/questioned the state of Israel or it's politics were essentially hiding behind these statements as they were 100% anti-Jew and anti-semitic.

Completely and utterly outrageous.

Wonder what Levy's comments on this would be :

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/video-israeli-soldier-shoot-dead-injured-palestinian-youth-lying-on-ground-stabbing-attack-a6950021.html

Exactly, the narrative of any criticism of the state of Israels ethnic cleansing of the Palastinian people is treated as anti Semitic. 

Surprised that the recent questions about Philip Green have not called out as being anti Semitic  

 

 

[Toepoke]

51 minutes ago, Only One Stop said:

Surprised that the recent questions about Philip Green have not called out as being anti Semitic 

Thought it ironic that was the name of the guy who asked the Ken Livingstone question on QT...

[G-Man]

2 hours ago, Only One Stop said:

Anti Zionist or Anti Semitic? Or a right wing Tory press led smear campaign.

was the previous leader of Labour Party, Ed Milliband not Jewish, did all the Labour anti Semites just join when he resigned?

we live in a country that has part of its constitution banning a certain religion from being Prime Minister or from marrying into a Greco Germanic ruling family. 

 

Heir to the throne can marry a Catholic but can't be one. PM can be Catholic too. Bits and pieces regarding advice about head of church and I imagine the children can't be Catholic but apart from that Catholics welcome everywhere.

(Apart from a house round the corner from me that's inhabited by the ugliest bigots on God's green earth. They hate everyone who is not a white Protestant. It p's them off that their dog loves me and they can't just ignore the self tanning, therefore brown, Jew. I like to tell them I tan because Jesus being middle eastern was brown and I want to make up for what my people did to him by making myself look like him.) 

 

[Only One Stop]

28 minutes ago, G-Man said:

Heir to the throne can marry a Catholic but can't be one. PM can be Catholic too. Bits and pieces regarding advice about head of church and I imagine the children can't be Catholic but apart from that Catholics welcome everywhere.

(Apart from a house round the corner from me that's inhabited by the ugliest bigots on God's green earth. They hate everyone who is not a white Protestant. It p's them off that their dog loves me and they can't just ignore the self tanning, therefore brown, Jew. I like to tell them I tan because Jesus being middle eastern was brown and I want to make up for what my people did to him by making myself look like him.) 

 

I was of the understanding that Roman Catholic is not allowed to be Prime Minister due to the relationship with Head of State or Church of England or some nonsense. Certainly appears to be an unwritten rule anyway, hence Blair waiting until he resigned before announcing he was converting to RC. 

if your lot hadn't grassed Jesus to the Romans years ago we wouldn't be having any of this rubbish. 

[brant grebner]

These days if you simply call anyone in the UK government who is on the Mossad payroll a "Zionist"  next thing you know they're calling you an "anti-Semite" and saying you love Hitler and all that.

It's political correctness gone mad.

[EddardStark]

You can imagine the Hitler analogy being used extensively by anti semites as a mechanism to justify there hostility towards Jews. Some smart asses after a few beers being very selective in applying history.  Its very crass of Livingstone to voice this view but I really don't believe he is hates Jews. Criticism of Israel is more than justified in terms some of their policies, indeed a lot of this comes from the jewish diaspora but the problem is within Israel the traditional opposition to the right wing is completely fragmented and general public opinion has moved to the right.

[Huddersfield]

I've been a fan of Livingstone for a long time, but a man of his experience shouldn't have said that, & his statement is far from being a historical truth. Hitler didn't get elected in 1932 to start with; he didn't "go mad"  following a period of otherwise reasonable governance & he'd written Mein Kampf years before which was by any definition wildly anti-Semitic.

Livingstone really should have known better, but unfortunately, even as a Labour loyalist I can't really deny that the predominant support for the Palestinian cause within the party has created a blind spot & a conflation of Jews & Israel that has allowed, albeit not universally, anti-semitic tendencies to get a foothold. The average party member I know only understands the Palestine question at a surface level (including me if truth be told), so there was an opportunity for him to make a positive statement. Instead he has played int the media hands who can now jump up & down with glee about the party 'crisis'.

[Goozay]

49 minutes ago, Huddersfield said:

I've been a fan of Livingstone for a long time, but a man of his experience shouldn't have said that, & his statement is far from being a historical truth. Hitler didn't get elected in 1932 to start with; he didn't "go mad"  following a period of otherwise reasonable governance & he'd written Mein Kampf years before which was by any definition wildly anti-Semitic.

Livingstone really should have known better, but unfortunately, even as a Labour loyalist I can't really deny that the predominant support for the Palestinian cause within the party has created a blind spot & a conflation of Jews & Israel that has allowed, albeit not universally, anti-semitic tendencies to get a foothold. The average party member I know only understands the Palestine question at a surface level (including me if truth be told), so there was an opportunity for him to make a positive statement. Instead he has played int the media hands who can now jump up & down with glee about the party 'crisis'.

This.

When defending your party against accusations of antisemitism don't start a sentence with "What Hitler did was..."

The Nazis aren't a decent benchmark to measure yourself against. Bizarre from Livingston and plays right into the Tories hands just before Assembly elections.

[ErsatzThistle]

1 hour ago, Huddersfield said:

I've been a fan of Livingstone for a long time, but a man of his experience shouldn't have said that, & his statement is far from being a historical truth. Hitler didn't get elected in 1932 to start with; he didn't "go mad"  following a period of otherwise reasonable governance & he'd written Mein Kampf years before which was by any definition wildly anti-Semitic.

Livingstone really should have known better, but unfortunately, even as a Labour loyalist I can't really deny that the predominant support for the Palestinian cause within the party has created a blind spot & a conflation of Jews & Israel that has allowed, albeit not universally, anti-semitic tendencies to get a foothold. The average party member I know only understands the Palestine question at a surface level (including me if truth be told), so there was an opportunity for him to make a positive statement. Instead he has played int the media hands who can now jump up & down with glee about the party 'crisis'.

A bluntly honest assessment there Huddersfield which is to your great credit and one which I'm sure many on this board who are staunch SNP supporters (myself included) respect you for 

Edited April 29, 2016 by ErsatzThistle

[MacWalka]

21 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

A bluntly honest assessment there Huddersfield which is to your great credit and one which I'm sure many on this board who are staunch SNP supporters (myself included) respect you for 

Indeed, if only SNP supporters could be as critical of their own party and memebers.

[phart]

1 hour ago, Huddersfield said:

I've been a fan of Livingstone for a long time, but a man of his experience shouldn't have said that, & his statement is far from being a historical truth. Hitler didn't get elected in 1932 to start with; he didn't "go mad"  following a period of otherwise reasonable governance & he'd written Mein Kampf years before which was by any definition wildly anti-Semitic.

Livingstone really should have known better, but unfortunately, even as a Labour loyalist I can't really deny that the predominant support for the Palestinian cause within the party has created a blind spot & a conflation of Jews & Israel that has allowed, albeit not universally, anti-semitic tendencies to get a foothold. The average party member I know only understands the Palestine question at a surface level (including me if truth be told), so there was an opportunity for him to make a positive statement. Instead he has played int the media hands who can now jump up & down with glee about the party 'crisis'.

He got appointed in January 1933 after two elections in 1932 failed to return a government. Hitler "won" the election cause he got into power directly off of them. Although he wasn't elected. This is splitting hairs though.

Hitler did go "mad" though it has nothing to do with this, he suffered from hysterical blindness.

You're allowed to get bits of history wrong without the hysteria of being a bigot. Nothing worse than a real issue getting hijacked for political gain.

This is a political storm.

I also can't believe you managed to read Mein Kampf, i've tried to a few times it's soo fecking boring, the banality of evil alright.

[Huddersfield]

9 minutes ago, phart said:

He got appointed in January 1933 after two elections in 1932 failed to return a government. Hitler "won" the election cause he got into power directly off of them. Although he wasn't elected. This is splitting hairs though.

Hitler did go "mad" though it has nothing to do with this, he suffered from hysterical blindness.

You're allowed to get bits of history wrong without the hysteria of being a bigot. Nothing worse than a real issue getting hijacked for political gain.

This is a political storm.

I also can't believe you managed to read Mein Kampf, i've tried to a few times it's soo fecking boring, the banality of evil alright.

I used to have a copy of it; it belonged to my Grandad who'd been in the Navy & Army in his time...I think it was an early 1970s version of internet rage. Anyway I never read it cover to cover, just bits & bobs. It's so incoherent I'd be amazed if old Adolf even understood it himself.

[phart]

20 minutes ago, Huddersfield said:

I used to have a copy of it; it belonged to my Grandad who'd been in the Navy & Army in his time...I think it was an early 1970s version of internet rage. Anyway I never read it cover to cover, just bits & bobs. It's so incoherent I'd be amazed if old Adolf even understood it himself.

So he was elected in 1932(that was when the elections took place) and sworn in January 1933. Early Zionism wanted Jews to come to what would be called Israel. The Haavara agreement allowed that, though obviously not for altruistic reasons.

He never called Hitler a Zionist, which someone told Anthony Beevor and had him go off on a wee rant about it.

 

 

 

[Orraloon]

21 hours ago, phart said:

I see Ken Livingstone has been labelled antisemitic for saying Hitler supported Zionism. It seems to have caused quite a stir , John Mann went mental and called him "Nazi Apologist"

Here is what he said  "When Hitler won his election in 1932 his policy then was that Jews should be moved to Israel. He was supporting Zionism before he went mad and ended up killing six million Jews."

The Haavara Agreement in 1933 did exactly that, now of course wanting to rid Germany of Jews might have been the genesis of the idea. It's unclear.

It did happen though and to see the hysteria over a historical truth is amazing. We're pretty much fecked.

Is this really what he was suspended for? There must be more to it than that or else Corbyn has totally lost the plot.

 

[G-Man]

13 hours ago, Only One Stop said:

 

if your lot hadn't grassed Jesus to the Romans years ago we wouldn't be having any of this rubbish. 

I tan to heal past wrongs. 

21 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Is this really what he was suspended for? There must be more to it than that or else Corbyn has totally lost the plot.

 

No, he was suspended because the media hate Corbyn and will find any and every excuse to get at him. I'm surprised at KL as he's usually a sharp operator and seems friendly with Corbyn and he must surely have realised any sentence with 'Hitler' in it would be spun to within an inch if its life. They can't get to Corbyn as he's popular with Labour voters so they're now going after his party support.  Or so I think.