Voting

[Rossy]

4 hours ago, Scunnered said:

Not just the MSM and Davidson.  The SNP are stuck between a rock and a hard place re: another referendum.  A vocal section of their support are utterly outraged that they haven't already called one, I saw some young pup getting a dressing down from a couple of the "old guard" because he was urging caution.  There already is, and will be more infighting.

The SNP won't call another referendum until polls show that it is strongly in the lead for a sustained period of time, we're talking 2-3 years.  And it's the absolute right thing for them to do.

Who are this 'vocal section who are outraged ' ?

Since September 2014, I honestly haven't heard or read of one single SNP supporter demanding another referendum. 

Honestly. So who are this vocal section ? Is it Ruth Davidson ?

 

Edited May 7, 2016 by Rossy

[Rossy]

By the way, it's time for Davidson to stand up and be counted now and offer Scotland more than her Ulster-lite Loyalist agenda.

She's been incredibly quiet over Tory turmoil regarding the EU, and disappeared when questions were asked over Tory reluctance to clamp down on tax havens for their tax dodging supporters.

If she's expecting to spend the next 5 years uttering Westminster scripted soundbites, waving the Union flag and then disappearing when difficult questions are asked, let's hope she's made to think again. 

[antidote]

4 hours ago, antidote said:

Granted there is a vocal small section hell bent on another referendum asap, but most, IMO, are more switched on to wait a few more years until the right moment.

I wouldn't call it in fighting really.

I totally agree with your last sentence.

 

Sorry I'll take part of that back. 

You (scunnered) said:

"The SNP won't call another referendum until polls show that it is strongly in the lead for a sustained period of time, we're talking 2-3 years.  And it's the absolute right thing for them to do."

No not 2-3 years more like 6 months in my opinion. 

[Pool Q]

18 minutes ago, Rossy said:

By the way, it's time for Davidson to stand up and be counted now and offer Scotland more than her Ulster-lite Loyalist agenda.

She's been incredibly quiet over Tory turmoil regarding the EU, and disappeared when questions were asked over Tory reluctance to clamp down on tax havens for their tax dodging supporters.

If she's expecting to spend the next 5 years uttering Westminster scripted soundbites, waving the Union flag and then disappearing when difficult questions are asked, let's hope she's made to think again. 

Totally agree. She has basically campaigned on an anti-referendum agenda, with some success. Now that this fictional bogeyman has disappeared, and reality dawns that she actually will have next to no influence at Holyrood, she will need to come up with a bit of substance. All that with Tory cuts at Westminster in the background which she will presumably have to stick up for. I couldn't even tell you, for example, if she is pro-EU or not. I almost feel sorry for Dugdale, who at least tried to campaign on actual issues (as opposed to a made up threat of a second referendum) and got virtually wiped out as a result.

[the_burger]

3 minutes ago, Pool Q said:

Totally agree. She has basically campaigned on an anti-referendum agenda, with some success. Now that this fictional bogeyman has disappeared, and reality dawns that she actually will have next to no influence at Holyrood, she will need to come up with a bit of substance. All that with Tory cuts at Westminster in the background which she will presumably have to stick up for. I couldn't even tell you, for example, if she is pro-EU or not. I almost feel sorry for Dugdale, who at least tried to campaign on actual issues (as opposed to a made up threat of a second referendum) and got virtually wiped out as a result.

Apparently she is pro EU. As far as I know all of the Scottish parties apart from ukip officially back the pro EU side

[Rossy]

20 minutes ago, the_burger said:

Apparently she is pro EU. 

It's difficult to tell, as she doesn't bang on about it quite as much as she does the fictional 2nd referendum. Maybe Dave has told her to what to do on that ?

I wonder how many of her new 'supporters' and new MSP's feel the same way.

[Third Lanark]

It may be churlish of me to point this out, but the SNP do not have the constitutional power to call a referendum; they will have to wait till a Westminster government decides to be so kind...

[Rossy]

3 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

It may be churlish of me to point this out, but the SNP do not have the constitutional power to call a referendum; they will have to wait till a Westminster government decides to be so kind...

I think we're a long way away from that point.

[Clyde1998]

25 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

It may be churlish of me to point this out, but the SNP do not have the constitutional power to call a referendum; they will have to wait till a Westminster government decides to be so kind...

IIRC, Westminster can veto anything that goes through the Scottish Parliament. If they do block any referendum bill, and it's gone through the Scottish Parliament - it'll be the first time there's been a Westminster veto.

[aaid]

34 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

It may be churlish of me to point this out, but the SNP do not have the constitutional power to call a referendum; they will have to wait till a Westminster government decides to be so kind...

You're into the territory there of what the Westminster government could theoretically do under the constitution and ignoring the realpolitik. 

[stocky]

1 hour ago, antidote said:

Sorry I'll take part of that back. 

You (scunnered) said:

"The SNP won't call another referendum until polls show that it is strongly in the lead for a sustained period of time, we're talking 2-3 years.  And it's the absolute right thing for them to do."

No not 2-3 years more like 6 months in my opinion. 

nope , i disagree here Ref 2 should be in next parliament.

If we lose again, its done, gone forever. 

The domographics are not there,

.  we wont have the numbers before 2020...

and the political situation in Westminster will be vastly different...

2022/23 for me....

[Caledonian Craig]

1 hour ago, Rossy said:

By the way, it's time for Davidson to stand up and be counted now and offer Scotland more than her Ulster-lite Loyalist agenda.

She's been incredibly quiet over Tory turmoil regarding the EU, and disappeared when questions were asked over Tory reluctance to clamp down on tax havens for their tax dodging supporters.

If she's expecting to spend the next 5 years uttering Westminster scripted soundbites, waving the Union flag and then disappearing when difficult questions are asked, let's hope she's made to think again. 

First up I hate all that the Conservatives stand for but will say that what Davidson has done is distance Scottish Conservatives from Westminster Conservatives - it is what Scottish voters want to see after all. She has been vociferous on Scottish issues I think as she wants to portray herself as being tuned in only to Scottish matters and it has won her scabby party a lot of votes especially from Labour. That is my take on it.

[Caledonian Craig]

12 minutes ago, stocky said:

nope , i disagree here Ref 2 should be in next parliament.

If we lose again, its done, gone forever. 

The domographics are not there,

.  we wont have the numbers before 2020...

and the political situation in Westminster will be vastly different...

2022/23 for me....

Sorry but no. The next referendum has to be called at the right time and that isn't now and probably won't be in 2 or 3 years time. The SNP need to knuckle down and do what they were elected for - running Scotland. Do it well for the next five years and win the naysayers over is a way to win support - not calling for an IndyRef all the time. People get pissed off and see that as bullying. Leave it out and win people over by showing they can run Scotland. Wait until polls are way in favour of a yes vote and then push.

[stocky]

4 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Sorry but no. The next referendum has to be called at the right time and that isn't now and probably won't be in 2 or 3 years time. The SNP need to knuckle down and do what they were elected for - running Scotland. Do it well for the next five years and win the naysayers over is a way to win support - not calling for an IndyRef all the time. People get pissed off and see that as bullying. Leave it out and win people over by showing they can run Scotland. Wait until polls are way in favour of a yes vote and then push.

Aye, thats similar to what i was saying... Leave it alone till next parliament.

However as its Ruthy and her crew who bring it up every 5 mins, 

Nicoila has all but ruled it out, in this parliament, without saying there will be NO referendum,in this parliament   ..

 

I was putting a time limit of what you are saying

 

if not 2022/23 when do you envisage it happening?

[Caledonian Craig]

Sod what Ruth says - let her continue to bring it up. As long as Nicola and the SNP say there are no plans for a referendum then people will get the message. Any attempt at another referendum HAS to be when the time is right and not before. The polls should be at around 60 to 66% yes over a sustained period of at least six months and then is the time to go for it. When that time will come (if at all) will depend on how competent the SNP can show themselves to be at running the country. However they must must MUST work out a coherent plan on currency etc before going for another referendum. I am no political expert but if I were the SNP I'd be using the time now to try to make Scotland as self-funding as possible for health/education/policing and such-like as that takes care of a lot should another referendum come around.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Caledonian Craig

[neilly71]

A referendum will be called when it is evident there is a majority support for it. They are not as you say " calling  for an Indy Ref all the time". They will however do whatever they can to increase support for a referendum. They have made this abundantly clear. Anyone saying the SNP will call a snap referendum or are calling for one are listening to much to Ruthie and the Daily Mail.

[Caledonian Craig]

Whenever they do it 9and hopefully it will be at the right time) they need to be better prepared than they were last time. Too many holes in their plans. They should be using the time now to make themselves better prepared so that they have all the answers. Work on a real plan for the currency etc etc.

 

[iainmac1]

26 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Whenever they do it 9and hopefully it will be at the right time) they need to be better prepared than they were last time. Too many holes in their plans. They should be using the time now to make themselves better prepared so that they have all the answers. Work on a real plan for the currency etc etc.

 

I don't think there's much more they could do regarding the currency. If they announced plans to launch our own currency the uncertainty argument would go into overdrive. 

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, iainmac1 said:

I don't think there's much more they could do regarding the currency. If they announced plans to launch our own currency the uncertainty argument would go into overdrive. 

Yes but more thought has to be put into that and everything else. I'd even tale them saying we'll go with the Euro until they come up with a true viable alternative.

[Scunnered]

3 hours ago, Rossy said:

Who are this 'vocal section who are outraged ' ?

Since September 2014, I honestly haven't heard or read of one single SNP supporter demanding another referendum. 

 

You've lived a sheltered life then, it's rife and I see it every day on social media.  An SNP supporter who posts on here mentioned the infighting on Facebook this morning.  I'll let them answer as it'll mean more to those on this board coming from one of their own than me.

[Toepoke]

1 hour ago, stocky said:

The domographics are not there

Is that the number of baldy Yes voters?...

[Dave78]

2 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Sod what Ruth says - let her continue to bring it up. As long as Nicola and the SNP say there are no plans for a referendum then people will get the message. Any attempt at another referendum HAS to be when the time is right and not before. The polls should be at around 60 to 66% yes over a sustained period of at least six months and then is the time to go for it. When that time will come (if at all) will depend on how competent the SNP can show themselves to be at running the country. However they must must MUST work out a coherent plan on currency etc before going for another referendum. I am no political expert but if I were the SNP I'd be using the time now to try to make Scotland as self-funding as possible for health/education/policing and such-like as that takes care of a lot should another referendum come around.

Nah, i don't see how that works. The SNP governed the country competently from 2007 to 2011, yet support for independence stayed around the traditional 30% mark.

The only way i see support for indy growing is from outside factors outwith SNP control:

1. The economic case for independence improving (i.e. oil going back to $100 a barrel).

2. Brexit

3. The ageing unionist demographic going to the big hoose in the sky to pool and share their resources with St. Peter.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Dave78
spelling

[Rossy]

1 hour ago, Scunnered said:

You've lived a sheltered life then, it's rife and I see it every day on social media.  An SNP supporter who posts on here mentioned the infighting on Facebook this morning.  I'll let them answer as it'll mean more to those on this board coming from one of their own than me.

Social media is full of fuqking idiots, as this message board proves. 

My Facebook is filled with people who love cats and babies, but I don't think of them of a 'vocal section who are outraged'.

Fact is, there is absolutely no 'vocal section'.....none at all.....other than on your Facebook page. And in your imagination.

[neilly71]

9 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

Nah, i don't see how that works. The SNP governed the country competently from 2007 to 2011, yet support for independence stayed around the traditional 30% mark.

The only way i see support for indy growing is from outside factors outwith SNP control:

1. The economic case for independence improving (i.e. oil going back to $100 a barrel).

2. Brexit

3. The ageing unionist demographic going to the big hoose in the sky to pool and share their resources with St. Peter.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. I think most folk would agree the SNP at least are a competent government, so another 5 years of the same won't on its own encourage No's to become Yes. I'd throw Trident renewal into the mix as well.

Edited May 7, 2016 by neilly71

[Scunnered]

15 minutes ago, Rossy said:

Social media is full of fuqking idiots, as this message board proves. 

My Facebook is filled with people who love cats and babies, but I don't think of them of a 'vocal section who are outraged'.

Fact is, there is absolutely no 'vocal section'.....none at all.....other than on your Facebook page. And in your imagination.

It took me less than 30 seconds to verify you're talking shite!