Farm subsidy I.T. fiasco

[Mee]

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/may/19/it-failures-farm-subsidies-cost-sturgeon-scotland-125m

 

Shocking stuff, the money spent and incompetence is eye watering.

[aaid]

Sounds like they didn't have the requirements nailed down before the project started which is always a recipe for disaster.

[Parklife]

Not the SNP's fault. Labour done it and ran away. I blame Westminster Cuts. 

[Mee]

1 hour ago, aaid said:

Sounds like they didn't have the requirements nailed down before the project started which is always a recipe for disaster.

Doesn't explain the head of recruitment setting up a recruitment company and funneling all the work through it at higher rates than they were meant to.

[aaid]

4 minutes ago, Mee said:

Doesn't explain the head of recruitment setting up a recruitment company and funneling all the work through it at higher rates than they were meant to.

Maybe because that wasn't what was happening.  

There was certainly a conflict of interest - which is for from good practice - but as far as I know, there's no suggestion that it contributed to the overruns.  In fact it seems that what was happening there was that onshore contract staff were being replaced by offshore staff, which you generally only do for one reason, to reduce cost.

[Ally Bongo]

SNP Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33504664

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1563c9aa-9dca-11e5-b45d-4812f209f861.html#axzz49F22Xqyy

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/01/uk_fine_180m_eu_botched_farm_payments/

 

[ErsatzThistle]

Meanwhile in Glasgow

A councillor (Yvonne Kucuk), is suspended from the Labour Party after being charged with embezzlement ,,,,,,,,

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14493672.Glasgow_Labour_councillor_charged_amid_embezzlement_probe/

Whilst councillor (Aileen Colleran) quits the Labour Party after being treated with "suspicion and mistrust" partly because she supports Scottish independence and partly also because her husband (Chris Stephens) is an SNP MP .......

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14506544.Prominent_Labour_figure_quits_party_throwing_council_control_into_doubt/?ref=rss

[aaid]

8 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

SNP Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad

Was that from the sheep farmers. 

[Ally Bongo]

1 hour ago, aaid said:

Was that from the sheep farmers. 

Yes

Im sorry - it was very poor

[Scunnered]

10 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

SNP Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33504664

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1563c9aa-9dca-11e5-b45d-4812f209f861.html#axzz49F22Xqyy

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/01/uk_fine_180m_eu_botched_farm_payments/

 

 

9 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Meanwhile in Glasgow

A councillor (Yvonne Kucuk), is suspended from the Labour Party after being charged with embezzlement ,,,,,,,,

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14493672.Glasgow_Labour_councillor_charged_amid_embezzlement_probe/

Whilst councillor (Aileen Colleran) quits the Labour Party after being treated with "suspicion and mistrust" partly because she supports Scottish independence and partly also because her husband (Chris Stephens) is an SNP MP .......

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14506544.Prominent_Labour_figure_quits_party_throwing_council_control_into_doubt/?ref=rss

SNP supporters really are the huns of politics

[Stu101]

10 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

SNP Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad

 

I genuinely laughed out loud at that

[antidote]

20 hours ago, Parklife said:

Not the SNP's fault. Labour done it and ran away. I blame Westminster Cuts. 

No this was Labour's fault and £125 million pales into insignificance compared to Labour's £10, £11, £12, £20 billion. 

Take your pick on the final cost.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/18/nhs-records-system-10bn

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/nhs-pulls-the-plug-on-its-11bn-it-system-2330906.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2040259/NHS-IT-project-failure-Labours-12bn-scheme-scrapped.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1542486/20bn-NHS-computer-system-doomed-to-fail.html

 

Oh and was Labour at Westminster!!!

[AlfieMoon]

Why exactly are Labour and Westminster getting brought into this discussion about the ScotGov balls-up on this new system? 

[Ally Bongo]

45 minutes ago, AlfieMoon said:

Why exactly are Labour and Westminster getting brought into this discussion about the ScotGov balls-up on this new system? 

Because it's clear it's not just a Scottish Government issue which the mainstream media would have us believe

[antidote]

7 hours ago, AlfieMoon said:

Why exactly are Labour and Westminster getting brought into this discussion about the ScotGov balls-up on this new system? 

Don't know ask Parklife.

[scotlad]

6 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

Because it's clear it's not just a Scottish Government issue which the mainstream media would have us believe

It's not just a government issue either. IT projects in both the private and public sectors are vulnerable to set backs and in some cases failures. 

It is disappointing, though, to see the Scottish Government following the UK government's lead and throwing money at private consultants and contractors who fail to deliver (and then point the finger back).

[hampden_loon2878]

I have no sympathy for that subsidy junkies  

[Orraloon]

44 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

I have no sympathy for that subsidy junkies  

Me neither.The only folk who do more whingin' than fisher fowk are fermers.

[euan2020]

Only folk who are subsidized are the paying public. They are not paying the true cost of production covering eu legislation and animal husbandry.  In the 50's 50% of your wage went on food, now gets spent on tat etc

Now certainly you can get cheap food from abroad but there is not the same animal husbandry etc  and meat from states is full of sterrhoids 

But anyway - There's a reason why farming had a high suicide rate and it isn't because they are worried what to do with all their money

By the by  - I work in oil industry 

 

 

 

 

 

[calmac_man]

I shouldn't be doing this, but...

This is entirely the Scottish Government's fault. Sure, it was always going to be difficult, and other countries screwed up too. But most countries have managed alright, and we definitely would have if we'd had competent management. For about 3 years prior to the mess unravelling in December staff across the Directorate have known that it was an unfolding disaster, it's been discussed openly in the corridors. There was one brave whistleblower who was shut up by HR. The details on this site are correct, as far as I can tell, and give more on it: https://scottishsaf.wordpress.com

The Audit Scotland report is correct and apportions blame fairly. If anything, it lets the key civil servants off the hook. The conflict of interest is sexier than it is important - it didn't contribute much, if at all, to the delays and cost overruns. The problem was management. They lacked the knowledge, experience and, in most cases, ability to oversee a project of this size and complexity. They didn't acknowledge their lack of expertise, didn't appreciate that this is no job for a talented amateur, and didn't bring in help. The consultants they did bring in weren't invested in the success of the project, and some gained more from its failure. They learned nothing from previous government IT failures and made all the same mistakes. 

The single most important finding is:

"Programme governance has not been effective. Significant decisions were made outwith programme governance structures; strategic decisions took too long; and senior roles and responsibilities overlapped and did not operate as intended. The programme team and IT division also did not work as one team, with a lack of trust and blame culture hindering effective progress. There has been little accountability in the programme for IT delivery leading to ineffective challenge and oversight. Management failed to deal effectively with conflicts of interest; actions were taken but these were inadequate and arrangements were not sufficient to ensure value for money."

You can take blame all the way up the chain, including to Ministers, depending on your view of how much they're responsible for what goes on beneath them. My own view is that it was Richard Lochhead's job to ask the difficult question. I don't know to what extent he did that, or whether he should have accepted the answers he was getting. But alarm bells should have been going off big style by the start of 2015 when it was clear that the system was a long, long way from ready, when stress testing was still a long way from possible, and when the Chief Agricultural Officer legged it to the private sector in a classic escaping-a-sinking-ship number. For a Minister this was a jotters-level event and I think only the election and his family circumstances saved him from the ignominy. 

The reason I'm posting this is that I'm furious about the incompetence, the damage to our credibility and the waste of money, and most people I speak to in Saughton House feel the same. We like the farming industry and we're embarrassed that this has happened to them. The fact that the senior manager who is most responsible for all of this remains in post and unblemished, when we all know he should be out the door, is hugely demotivating for those under him.

What's even worse is that the management culture that failed to spot the emerging problems and deal with them has spread across the Scottish Government. There have been screw-ups caused by it before, and there will be more to come. Not only do the senior management not know much about their policy areas or the technical skills for IT, legislation, project management and so on, they have so much faith in their own innate abilities that they don't even think it's important. 

I feel I should end on a positive note, but... nope, I've got nothing. Other than maybe that the two guys in charge of cleaning up the mess have been doing a very good job, and might manage to get us through next year unscathed. 

[neilly71]

Good to see you back Calmac! 

[Parklife]

Really informative post, Calmac Man. Thanks very much. 

[Jie Bie]

12 hours ago, calmac_man said:

"Programme governance has not been effective. Significant decisions were made outwith programme governance structures; strategic decisions took too long; and senior roles and responsibilities overlapped and did not operate as intended. The programme team and IT division also did not work as one team, with a lack of trust and blame culture hindering effective progress. There has been little accountability in the programme for IT delivery leading to ineffective challenge and oversight. Management failed to deal effectively with conflicts of interest; actions were taken but these were inadequate and arrangements were not sufficient to ensure value for money."

I've been working in IT since 2003, and I've seen what is described above happening time and time again.  Too many projects end up completely rudderless with everyone blaming each other once the money has run out and not even half of the system is complete!  The worst of it is that it is completely avoidable, but no senior manager wants to hear about investing time and money developing a detailed requirements specification and low-level design, they just want project teams to "get on with it and get it built".

[deecie]

17 minutes ago, Jie Bie said:

I've been working in IT since 2003, and I've seen what is described above happening time and time again.  Too many projects end up completely rudderless with everyone blaming each other once the money has run out and not even half of the system is complete!  The worst of it is that it is completely avoidable, but no senior manager wants to hear about investing time and money developing a detailed requirements specification and low-level design, they just want project teams to "get on with it and get it built".

It's not exclusive to IT. You either get a 'people' person in charge who doesn't understand the 'technology', or a 'technology' person in charge who doesn't understand 'people'.

Both result in a partially successful delivery.

I blame it all on the buyers. Always without doubt the most useless people in any organisation.

[Ally Bongo]

17 hours ago, calmac_man said:

I shouldn't be doing this, but...

This is entirely the Scottish Government's fault. Sure, it was always going to be difficult, and other countries screwed up too. But most countries have managed alright, and we definitely would have if we'd had competent management. For about 3 years prior to the mess unravelling in December staff across the Directorate have known that it was an unfolding disaster, it's been discussed openly in the corridors. There was one brave whistleblower who was shut up by HR. The details on this site are correct, as far as I can tell, and give more on it: https://scottishsaf.wordpress.com

The Audit Scotland report is correct and apportions blame fairly. If anything, it lets the key civil servants off the hook. The conflict of interest is sexier than it is important - it didn't contribute much, if at all, to the delays and cost overruns. The problem was management. They lacked the knowledge, experience and, in most cases, ability to oversee a project of this size and complexity. They didn't acknowledge their lack of expertise, didn't appreciate that this is no job for a talented amateur, and didn't bring in help. The consultants they did bring in weren't invested in the success of the project, and some gained more from its failure. They learned nothing from previous government IT failures and made all the same mistakes. 

The single most important finding is:

"Programme governance has not been effective. Significant decisions were made outwith programme governance structures; strategic decisions took too long; and senior roles and responsibilities overlapped and did not operate as intended. The programme team and IT division also did not work as one team, with a lack of trust and blame culture hindering effective progress. There has been little accountability in the programme for IT delivery leading to ineffective challenge and oversight. Management failed to deal effectively with conflicts of interest; actions were taken but these were inadequate and arrangements were not sufficient to ensure value for money."

You can take blame all the way up the chain, including to Ministers, depending on your view of how much they're responsible for what goes on beneath them. My own view is that it was Richard Lochhead's job to ask the difficult question. I don't know to what extent he did that, or whether he should have accepted the answers he was getting. But alarm bells should have been going off big style by the start of 2015 when it was clear that the system was a long, long way from ready, when stress testing was still a long way from possible, and when the Chief Agricultural Officer legged it to the private sector in a classic escaping-a-sinking-ship number. For a Minister this was a jotters-level event and I think only the election and his family circumstances saved him from the ignominy. 

The reason I'm posting this is that I'm furious about the incompetence, the damage to our credibility and the waste of money, and most people I speak to in Saughton House feel the same. We like the farming industry and we're embarrassed that this has happened to them. The fact that the senior manager who is most responsible for all of this remains in post and unblemished, when we all know he should be out the door, is hugely demotivating for those under him.

What's even worse is that the management culture that failed to spot the emerging problems and deal with them has spread across the Scottish Government. There have been screw-ups caused by it before, and there will be more to come. Not only do the senior management not know much about their policy areas or the technical skills for IT, legislation, project management and so on, they have so much faith in their own innate abilities that they don't even think it's important. 

I feel I should end on a positive note, but... nope, I've got nothing. Other than maybe that the two guys in charge of cleaning up the mess have been doing a very good job, and might manage to get us through next year unscathed. 

Aye - good attempt Scunnered ...