Obama

[Flora MaDonald]

I see the bold Barack was in Hiroshima earlier, but stopped short of a formal apology. Should he have done so?

[Ally Bongo]

No

"Sorry that it came to that" would probably suffice

If he starts making formal apologies then the Japanese prime minister would have to apologise for the invasion of China et al

You wouldnt be able to stop the apologies for the things that should be apologised for

[Flora MaDonald]

52 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

No

"Sorry that it came to that" would probably suffice

If he starts making formal apologies then the Japanese prime minister would have to apologise for the invasion of China et al

You wouldnt be able to stop the apologies for the things that should be apologised for

Exactly my take on this.

[Orraloon]

I think it's a bit mental when folk start apologising for stuff that happened before they were even born. It can hardly be a proper apology when it was fuk all to do with him.

[deecie]

3 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

I think it's a bit mental when folk start apologising for stuff that happened before they were even born. It can hardly be a proper apology when it was fuk all to do with him.

I'm sorry, but I can't agree.

[Orraloon]

4 minutes ago, deecie said:

I'm sorry, but I can't agree.

Apology accepted. Just don't do it again.

 

[tartandon]

[Bristolhibby]

It's 70 years ago. It was a World at Total war. Millions dead.

No need to apologise, just remember.

J

[Ormond]

5 hours ago, deecie said:

I'm sorry, but I can't agree.

Are you steaming?

[JECK]

4 minutes ago, Ormond said:

Are you steaming?

im sorry but i want to apologise on behalf of this person

[86glebestreet]

So is Brenda lee 

[ParisInAKilt]

He probably wouldn't mean it anyway. 

[G-Man]

 

 

 

[brant grebner]

Fvck that.

The Japs were cultist empirical animals on the tail end of a 50 year pan-Asian war/genocide that almost pales the worst of the Third Reich.

They're still fvcked up.

Look at their porn - it's like Fred West with a pixelation gun on a bullet train.

[King Of Paisley]

7 hours ago, brant grebner said:

Fvck that.

The Japs were cultist empirical animals on the tail end of a 50 year pan-Asian war/genocide that almost pales the worst of the Third Reich.

They're still fvcked up.

Look at their porn - it's like Fred West with a pixelation gun on a bullet train.

This. A read of The Forgotten Highlander is a snippet of the utter butchers the Japs were towards BritishPOW's. And to think Phil the Greek thumbed his nose at those lads by attending Hirihito's funeral many years later.

[deecie]

13 hours ago, Ormond said:

Are you steaming?

I'm sorry, but i'm not, no.

[phart]

If you can't say sorry it was wrong to vaporize tens of thousands of men woman and children with a nuke 70 years ago, when you won the nobel peace prize for the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons , then when can you say sorry?

[phart]

17 hours ago, brant grebner said:

Fvck that.

The Japs were cultist empirical animals on the tail end of a 50 year pan-Asian war/genocide that almost pales the worst of the Third Reich.

They're still fvcked up.

Look at their porn - it's like Fred West with a pixelation gun on a bullet train.

They became that adopting the European model. They were copying our culture of creating empire.

I'm against collective punishment, punish the folk who did the crime, don't incinerate the folk who are from the same country. That is the sort of shit ISIS and UN do (letting 500,000 children under the age of 5 die, to "sanction" Iraq)

[derekfaejapan]

Discussed this with Japanese work colleagues last week. Nobody (from them) wanted or expected an apology from Obama...Maybe Japan has to also apologise for some of the stuff they've done.

However, he could've apologised for the behaviour of some of the US military personal based here, like the murder last week in Okinawa of a young Japanese woman by one of his scumbag foot soldiers, or another young lassie raped in March. Not to mention the infamous case in 1995 when three of these scum hillbilly bastards abducted and raped a 12 year old girl >>> Okinawa 1995 rape incident. There's now parts of Okinawa, Kanagawa and western Tokyo Prefecture near US bases that are literally no go areas for locals now.

Even going out in areas in like Roppongi or Azabujuban in Tokyo or central Yokohama is likely to involve meeting a group of these beered up fuds annoying folk and generally being dicks......Must be a novelty for them to be allowed out drinking in a 1st word country.

Edited May 28, 2016 by derekfaejapan

[ErsatzThistle]

"Jap" really ? Do we need to use that word ? 

What Japan's government and military did in the thirties and forties was terrible but the Japanese people today are not responsible for that.

It is time to forgive and move on. Not remain stuck in the past forever filled with hate and suspicion. 

I remember when Japan was hit by that catastrophic tsunami in 2011 there were plenty of stupid kunts online saying "It serves them right for what they done to our POWs during he war !" That was just sick. Celebrating children drowning and whole families being wiped out  What the hell is wrong with some people ?

Britain, France and the Netherlands once pursued equally brutal colonial policy throughout Asia too which is conveniently forgotten by many. But of course they were white and Christian so that's acceptable ............... 

[derekfaejapan]

12 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

"Jap" really ? Do we need to use that word ? 

What Japan's government and military did in the thirties and forties was terrible but the Japanese people today are not responsible for that.

It is time to forgive and move on. Not remain stuck in the past forever filled with hate and suspicion. 

I remember when Japan was hit by that catastrophic tsunami in 2011 there were plenty of stupid kunts online saying "It serves them right for what they done to our POWs during he war !" That was just sick. Celebrating children drowning and whole families being wiped out  What the hell is wrong with some people ?

Britain, France and the Netherlands once pursued equally brutal colonial policy throughout Asia too which is conveniently forgotten by many. But of course they were white and Christian so that's acceptable ............... 

Correct. 'Jap' is a vile word and deeply insulting for Japanese people...It's well within the same bracket as all the other choice words for racist wanks like @brant grebner

Edited May 28, 2016 by derekfaejapan

[brant grebner]

18 hours ago, derekfaejapan said:

Correct. 'Jap' is a vile word and deeply insulting for Japanese people...It's well within the same bracket as all the other choice words for racist wanks like @brant grebner

In all honesty that's the first time I've been made aware that it's an offensive term, but then I only ever use it in two contexts - quoting Quint in Jaws and in the expression "grinning like a wánking ..."

I defer to your knowledge of what is deeply insulting to Japanese people and will desist in it's use forthwith.

Furthermore, I apologise for my use of it earlier in the thread for this reason.

22 hours ago, phart said:

They became that adopting the European model. They were copying our culture of creating empire.

I'm against collective punishment, punish the folk who did the crime, don't incinerate the folk who are from the same country. That is the sort of shit ISIS and UN do (letting 500,000 children under the age of 5 die, to "sanction" Iraq)

Creating empire isnae a European thing. It's a human thing.

From the Akkadians to the Egyptians to the Mongols to the present day, humans crave wealth and resources and power and like fighting and conquering n that to do it.

What Japan did was nothing unusual or solely influenced by the European model, it was that they had a nutty leader who wanted to conquer Asia and who also who happened to be a divine being who inspired fanaticism and an imperial death cult.

I still don't the US should be apologising to Japan for using the bomb.

Granted the bomb is an abomination and a curse and we need to rid the world of them n all that.

But at the time it came down to several factors - mainly pure numbers

Quote

A study done for Secretary of War Henry Stimson's staff by William Shockley estimated that conquering Japan would cost 1.7 to 4 million American casualties, including 400,000 to 800,000 fatalities, and five to ten million Japanese

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0ahUKEwiJ0uCH5P_MAhXLIsAKHe93BMkQFgg0MAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.upa.pdx.edu%2FIMS%2Fcurrentprojects%2FTAHv3%2FContent%2FPDFs%2FOperation_Downfall.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFUgw3N-pxUD8a6vwAoAoFtdQJgeQ&sig2=uVprASQDy3NmW-b1QDQbwg&cad=rja

But also the naive understanding of nukes - they were the shiny new weapon and they had the chance to use them. The stupidity surrounding them lasted for years - see Project Chariot where they planned to make a harbour in Alaska by blowing up an area of Eskimo land with nukes.

Then there's the notion that the bombs were as much designed to frighten the USSR as to make the Japanese submit. I don't know if that was a principal motivating factor, I reckon it was mainly to break the Japanese will.

And as much as it was the murder of innocents by incinerating two cities, it was war.

And as Ally said earlier where do the apologies end?

Japan apologising to China and Korea?

Should Japan apologise to the Jews who were killed in the Holocaust for indirectly forcing Germany to implement the final solution by involving the Americans in the war by attacking Pearl Harbor?

Should the Americans apologise to the Jews who were killed in the Holocaust for ignoring the military intelligence that suggested that the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor and inviting the attack and then joining the war in Europe and bringing in the resources that caused the Nazis to panic and hold the Wansee Conference where they brought forward the plan to eliminate the Jews from over the course of a generation to as soon as possible?

Should Germany apologise to the Palestinians?

Should Marti Pellow apologise to the world's ears?

[phart]

1 hour ago, brant grebner said:

In all honesty that's the first time I've been made aware that it's an offensive term, but then I only ever use it in two contexts - quoting Quint in Jaws and in the expression "grinning like a wánking ..."

I defer to your knowledge of what is deeply insulting to Japanese people and will desist in it's use forthwith.

Furthermore, I apologise for my use of it earlier in the thread for this reason.

Creating empire isnae a European thing. It's a human thing.

From the Akkadians to the Egyptians to the Mongols to the present day, humans crave wealth and resources and power and like fighting and conquering n that to do it.

What Japan did was nothing unusual or solely influenced by the European model, it was that they had a nutty leader who wanted to conquer Asia and who also who happened to be a divine being who inspired fanaticism and an imperial death cult.

 

The literature i've read has me thinking that they were specifically copying European empires. I wasn't stating that empire was an invention of Europeans. they had just had towns bombed by the Brits and had seen the navy in action and decided they wanted a piece of the action. Weird how empire building seized the ruling class, just as they are making contacts with Europeans.

What specifically was worse about how the Japanese went about conquering Asia, compared with how Europeans conquered North America? What's the trait that the "japs" had that isn't in europeans.

[phart]

The Japanese agreed to the same terms before and after the bombing. So invasion casualties is a straw-man as it's irrelevant to the case. The first sentence is all you need to know. Well that's laying it on a bit, but a lot can be inferrred from that.

 

p.s. i could be wrong i'm hardly an expert on Japanese Empire, just mind reading someone saying what i said above, for all i know it could be wrong, or talking about China or something else.

Edited May 29, 2016 by phart

[Ally Bongo]

15 minutes ago, phart said:

The Japanese agreed to the same terms before and after the bombing. So invasion casualties is a straw-man as it's irrelevant to the case. The first sentence is all you need to know. Well that's laying it on a bit, but a lot can be inferrred from that.

 

 

Im sure this came up in a debate on here before

From what i recall I believe that it wasnt as cut and dried that the Japanese would accept the terms because there was the fear of an army coup.

Although the politicians wanted to surrender a few high profile generals who had a lot of support didnt thus using the bomb would lessen that support

I guess there are a lot of truths in both arguments (that one and showing the russians angle)