AberdeenAngus Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 2 hours ago, dipped flake said: but you did lose 0.25 points for Scotland by not beating them Can you post a link to that please? As far as I can see there are no co-efficient points awarded per game until the group stage. Had Aberdeen lost they would have been awarded 0.25. As it stands the least Aberdeen will get is 0.50 if they knocked out in this round. Points are awarded based on the round you are knocked out in unless you have evidence to the contrary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky Masher Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 6 hours ago, Rossy said: I just don't suffer fools very well, sorry about that. You must detest yourself then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Think after the Riga game a couple of years back, everyone seems to think that its just canon fodder in this round of Europe..... certainly was not the case last year against the Macedonian team, and Floa Esch have been able to get draws away from home against the likes of Dinamo Zagreb and IFK Gotenburg, hardly our worst every result in Europe (certainly no worse than Zalgiris Vilnius 3-1 at home or Skonto Riga.....). Speaking to friends in Latvia, they all say we should beat Ventspils no problem (probably not on same scale as Daugava) as they are a bit behind Liepāja in terms of quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 1 hour ago, AberdeenAngus said: Can you post a link to that please? As far as I can see there are no co-efficient points awarded per game until the group stage. Had Aberdeen lost they would have been awarded 0.25. As it stands the least Aberdeen will get is 0.50 if they knocked out in this round. Points are awarded based on the round you are knocked out in unless you have evidence to the contrary. I don't have a link, but I was sure you got points for every match you won. So you get more points for winning both legs and get something if you win a leg, but go out, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 32 minutes ago, sbcmfc said: I don't have a link, but I was sure you got points for every match you won. So you get more points for winning both legs and get something if you win a leg, but go out, etc. Nope Quote Club coefficient The club coefficient rankings are determined by the results of clubs in the UEFA Champions League and the UEFA Europa League over the previous five seasons, as well as by the coefficient of the clubs' association. The club coefficient is the sum of the points earned by the club over the five seasons plus 20% of the club's association coefficient.[27][28] The clubs receive two points for a win, one point for a draw, and no points for a defeat in games of the main stages of the Champions League and the Europa League. Results determined after extra-time are included in this method, however results determined after penalty shoot-outs are not (the result is considered a draw). Bonus points for entering the Europa League group stage are not additional to win/draw points; they provide a minimum points allowance for participating clubs, whereas bonus points for entering the Champions League group stage (and those for qualifying to the knockout stage) are additional to win/draw points. Qualifying round results are only taken into account if the team is eliminated in one of the rounds (see table below). Otherwise, the qualifying round results are taken into account only for the calculation of the association's coefficient and are halved.[27] The clubs do not receive any points for elimination in the Champions League third qualifying round or the play-off because those teams move to the Europa League and receive points from participation in that competition.[28] Round Points awarded Champions League Europa League First qualifying round elimination 0.5 0.25 Second qualifying round elimination 1 0.5 Third qualifying round elimination – 1 Play-off elimination – 1.5 Group stage participation 4 2 Win in group stage or subsequent round 2 2 Draw in group stage or subsequent round 1 1 Round of 16 participation 5 – Quarter-finals, semi-finals, and finals participation 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 (edited) Quote Quote Qualifying round results are only taken into account if the team is eliminated in one of the rounds (see table below). Otherwise, the qualifying round results are taken into account only for the calculation of the association's coefficient and are halved.[ That seems to suggest that United would've been awarded points for qualifying round draws against AEK and Dynamo Moscow. And Fola would get points for beating Aberdeen, but Aberdeen have lost nothing. Edited July 11, 2016 by adamntg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exglasgowasc Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 It's all rather confusing. From what Parklife has shown above, to me it would take Aberdeen years of second round elimination to gain enough points to be anywhere higher than they are graded at the moment. Incidentally having witnessed what I did in Fola, I think it's the worst result we have had despite any mitigating circumstances/excuses being offered. I did say last year also that i thought the Macedonian team we played would have beaten any other SPFL side other than perhaps Celtic. Once again for all those out there who assume Scottish teams should beat small teams because we have never heard of them or because they are from small countries, then sorry that doesn't happen any more. Aberdeen will not have it easy at all against Ventspils and I for one am not wholly confident we will go through. Some of these smaller clubs I think must look forward to these draws and hope that they draw a Scottish team because they consider us so weak and feel that there is an opportunity to progress by playing against us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Yeah, it is very much organised so that clubs from smaller countries will find it very difficult to climb the slippery pole. Even Aberdeen's decent results of a couple of seasons ago count for very little cos the rest of the clubs got pumped out and the country's co-efficient is in the toilet. But it's deliberate so don't expect it to change any century soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted July 11, 2016 Author Share Posted July 11, 2016 2 hours ago, Larky Masher said: You must detest yourself then. Sarcasm just doesn't get more cutting edge than that. Take a bow sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donaldo87 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Sums it up when we are dangerously close to the cup winners going into the first round as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenAngus Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 3 hours ago, adamntg said: That seems to suggest that United would've been awarded points for qualifying round draws against AEK and Dynamo Moscow. And Fola would get points for beating Aberdeen, but Aberdeen have lost nothing. No that is not what it means. I think the use of the word 'result' is confusing. The only points gained related to the round in which a club is knocked out. It is averaged over 5 seasons. Aberdeen's co-efficient is effectively only over the last 2 seasons because we didn't play in Europe for the previous 3 seasons. So we have 1 full point for the last 2 season's 3rd qualifying round exits (plus our share of the overall Scottish total). In Utd's case their current co-efficient will have been boosted as result of starting later in the competition as cup runners up (when that was a qualification route) so despite exiting at their own 1st hurdle it was the 3rd qualifying round so more points for exiting there. Your existing co-efficient will drop next summer as your 10/11 season drops out of the 5 years which count - you exited at the final qualifying round then. That more than anything shows our decline - cup winners and indeed 3rd in the league used to enter Europe needing 1 win to make the group stages like Aberdeen did in 2007/08. Now its 2 in Q1 and 1 in Q2. Depressing stuff and a result of a number of years of decline from all our participating clubs. Probably a good thing that we recently dropped Cup Runners Up from getting a place in an effort to ensure that the place would only go to cup winners or fall to the next highest placed league side. Long road back to seeing our teams get a proper crack at the group stages of the EL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 28 minutes ago, AberdeenAngus said: No that is not what it means. I think the use of the word 'result' is confusing. The only points gained related to the round in which a club is knocked out. It is averaged over 5 seasons. Aberdeen's co-efficient is effectively only over the last 2 seasons because we didn't play in Europe for the previous 3 seasons. So we have 1 full point for the last 2 season's 3rd qualifying round exits (plus our share of the overall Scottish total). In Utd's case their current co-efficient will have been boosted as result of starting later in the competition as cup runners up (when that was a qualification route) so despite exiting at their own 1st hurdle it was the 3rd qualifying round so more points for exiting there. Your existing co-efficient will drop next summer as your 10/11 season drops out of the 5 years which count - you exited at the final qualifying round then. That more than anything shows our decline - cup winners and indeed 3rd in the league used to enter Europe needing 1 win to make the group stages like Aberdeen did in 2007/08. Now its 2 in Q1 and 1 in Q2. Depressing stuff and a result of a number of years of decline from all our participating clubs. Probably a good thing that we recently dropped Cup Runners Up from getting a place in an effort to ensure that the place would only go to cup winners or fall to the next highest placed league side. Long road back to seeing our teams get a proper crack at the group stages of the EL. Gotcha. Slight point of order : United actually won the Cup in 2010. We were runners-up in 2014 and didn't qualify for Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenAngus Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Just now, adamntg said: Gotcha. Slight point of order : United actually won the Cup in 2010. We were runners-up in 2014 and didn't qualify for Europe. Of course - big point of order I'd say. Although most of us don't want to see 1 or more of the other teams do well in Europe it is actually vital that all the teams win as many rounds as possible to get us out of this rut. Celtic or Aberdeen/Hearts/Hibs suffering early knock outs only enhances the chance of that happening to them and any other club qualifying for Europe in future again and again until we have Fola fans having the pish ripped out of them for losing an away tie to Dundee Utd despite winning through on aggregate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 1 minute ago, AberdeenAngus said: Of course - big point of order I'd say. Although most of us don't want to see 1 or more of the other teams do well in Europe it is actually vital that all the teams win as many rounds as possible to get us out of this rut. Celtic or Aberdeen/Hearts/Hibs suffering early knock outs only enhances the chance of that happening to them and any other club qualifying for Europe in future again and again until we have Fola fans having the pish ripped out of them for losing an away tie to Dundee Utd despite winning through on aggregate. I want all Scottish teams except Rangers to do well in Europe. I'm ambivalent about Celtic I suppose. But if the others end up with egg on their faces, of course we're all going to snicker and just be glad it's not us. Classic schadenfreude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shunkyboy and the fluffer Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 I watched Airbus play Ventspils in the Europa League three years ago with Ventspils going through on away goals. Unless they have improved massively I can't see them causing Aberdeen too many problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 14 hours ago, adamntg said: I want all Scottish teams except Rangers to do well in Europe. I'm ambivalent about Celtic I suppose. But if the others end up with egg on their faces, of course we're all going to snicker and just be glad it's not us. Classic schadenfreude. I always support the Scottish team in Europe, even Celtic. Although the Final against Porto wasn't as disappointing as it could have been. ? Can't understand anyone hoping for a Scottish team to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 31 minutes ago, RenfrewBlue said: I always support the Scottish team in Europe, even Celtic. Although the Final against Porto wasn't as disappointing as it could have been. ? Can't understand anyone hoping for a Scottish team to lose. It's only cos it's Rangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 37 minutes ago, RenfrewBlue said: Can't understand anyone hoping for a Scottish team to lose. You can't understand a football fans hoping that a rival team (for example Celtic) don't get an extra £10 million in funds by qualifying for the Champions League? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipped flake Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) On 7/11/2016 at 1:17 PM, AberdeenAngus said: Can you post a link to that please? As far as I can see there are no co-efficient points awarded per game until the group stage. Had Aberdeen lost they would have been awarded 0.25. As it stands the least Aberdeen will get is 0.50 if they knocked out in this round. Points are awarded based on the round you are knocked out in unless you have evidence to the contrary. points for clubs are awarded per round they qualify for. points for the country co-efficient are per points won. Aberdeen have so far added 0.25 points to Scotland's total for this season (2 for a win, halved to 1 as it is a qualifier, divided by 4 as we have 4 teams in Europe) Hearts have added 0.50 so Scotland's total points so far is 0.75 https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2017.html Edited July 12, 2016 by dipped flake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 3 hours ago, adamntg said: It's only cos it's Rangers. It's always about Rangers! ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 3 hours ago, Parklife said: You can't understand a football fans hoping that a rival team (for example Celtic) don't get an extra £10 million in funds by qualifying for the Champions League? Nope. Short sightedness like that is bad for the game. All Scottish teams doing well in Europe is my preference. It's not like Celtic actually use the money wisely, so why worry about it? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 43 minutes ago, RenfrewBlue said: Nope. Short sightedness like that is bad for the game. All Scottish teams doing well in Europe is my preference. All Scottish teams competing on an equal footing is my preference, it's the short-sightedness that's been prevalent in our game for decades that has allowed this situation to occur. The battle my team has to try and compete with them is big enough, without them having an extra £10 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 1 minute ago, Parklife said: All Scottish teams competing on an equal footing is my preference, it's the short-sightedness that's been prevalent in our game for decades that has allowed this situation to occur. The battle my team has to try and compete with them is big enough, without them having an extra £10 million. Totally agree that those that run our game are short sighted to the point of blind when it comes to the best path forward. I know where you're coming from on the cash angle but if our co-efficient was higher then every team would start later in qualifying or be seeded etc. With the associated cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Maybe we should be trying to raise the level of the many and not the few domestically then? Celtic have no competition because they are exponentially richer than the rest. If we were to redistribute some of that wealth we may have a league that is more competitive, entertaining and attractive to TV. But Celtic (and Rangers - and Aberdeen apparently) don't want that. They're happy with their big slice of the pie and the rest can go to hell in a handcart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus_Young Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 2 hours ago, RenfrewBlue said: Nope. Short sightedness like that is bad for the game. All Scottish teams doing well in Europe is my preference. It's not like Celtic actually use the money wisely, so why worry about it? ? Given Celtic are already quite a bit ahead of everyone else, wanting them to do well in Europe isn't going to do anything other than hand them more resources. You could make a case for THAT being short-sightedness. I rarely agree with the pish you come away with anyway but wanting that lot to win anything is a cracker. At least, being a Gers man, you will be a good looking b@stard, so you at least have that going for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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