Slovakia

[Auld_Reekie]

I'm not necessarily bothered about Adam either to be honest.

That said, I find myself going round in circles regarding whether we're as bad as we all think. On the one hand, I agree with some of the points above - we lack the mental strength in games that really matter; but on the other - if you look at some of these so called lesser nations, they have players playing in the top leagues of Europe. We have very, very few. Most of the teams I've seen so far have at least a couple of top, top players from the Bundesliga, Premiership, Ligue 1, etc. We've (still) got Darren Fletcher and even then, he's sadly a shadow of the player he was.

Our problem is clearly a mix of the two problems. Given we can't magic up world-class players, it seems to me we should be working on things we can improve with the players we do have, and that's confidence. F*** off with soul destroying friendlies against Italy and France for a start and let's start focusing on the teams at our own level. If players want to better themselves against the top players in the world, let's not pretend it'll happen with a one-off 90 minutes against the World's best - encourage them to go play in the best leagues in Europe - and by that, I don't mean the Championship or the bottom half of the English Premiership.

Our biggest problem isn't that we can't compete with the World's top ten, it's that we are inconsistent against Europe's 10-50 ranked teams. We've no qualified for 18 years now. I'm not going to lose much more sleep if we don't qualify for the next tournament but I'd at least like us to approach football as something we believe we can win, and not look like we are absolutely shiteing ourselves. In some ways, the two recent friendlies were more depressing than the actual qualification campaign itself.

Big six months for Strachan IMO. He starts to turn the whole atmosphere around or he has to go.

[ProudScot]

42 minutes ago, Auld_Reekie said:

I'm not necessarily bothered about Adam either to be honest.

That said, I find myself going round in circles regarding whether we're as bad as we all think. On the one hand, I agree with some of the points above - we lack the mental strength in games that really matter; but on the other - if you look at some of these so called lesser nations, they have players playing in the top leagues of Europe. We have very, very few. Most of the teams I've seen so far have at least a couple of top, top players from the Bundesliga, Premiership, Ligue 1, etc. We've (still) got Darren Fletcher and even then, he's sadly a shadow of the player he was.

Our problem is clearly a mix of the two problems. Given we can't magic up world-class players, it seems to me we should be working on things we can improve with the players we do have, and that's confidence. F*** off with soul destroying friendlies against Italy and France for a start and let's start focusing on the teams at our own level. If players want to better themselves against the top players in the world, let's not pretend it'll happen with a one-off 90 minutes against the World's best - encourage them to go play in the best leagues in Europe - and by that, I don't mean the Championship or the bottom half of the English Premiership.

Our biggest problem isn't that we can't compete with the World's top ten, it's that we are inconsistent against Europe's 10-50 ranked teams. We've no qualified for 18 years now. I'm not going to lose much more sleep if we don't qualify for the next tournament but I'd at least like us to approach football as something we believe we can win, and not look like we are absolutely shiteing ourselves. In some ways, the two recent friendlies were more depressing than the actual qualification campaign itself.

Big six months for Strachan IMO. He starts to turn the whole atmosphere around or he has to go.

Well said

[wubbs]

Czech and Denmark were the right opposition for the friendly games in March, but France and Italy were clearly about the money. Our decision not play last November was strange, as that was the first opportunity for Strachan to start putting things right after a disappointing campaign.

The manager should use every possible international date and have complete control over the opposition.

 

[bossman4]

6 minutes ago, wubbs said:

Czech and Denmark were the right opposition for the friendly games in March, but France and Italy were clearly about the money. Our decision not play last November was strange, as that was the first opportunity for Strachan to start putting things right after a disappointing campaign.

The manager should use every possible international date and have complete control over the opposition.

 

I didn't think there was much wrong in taking the Italy game, no harm in testing yourself once in a while but to take the France game after it was crazy. We should have taken a Latvia or Estonia away from home instead.

Agree about the November dates, should have take one game at least.

As I mentioned before our biggest issue at the moment is the manager's negativity. He needs to snap the f**k out of it otherwise he'll loose the players very quickly.

[wubbs]

6 minutes ago, bossman4 said:

I didn't think there was much wrong in taking the Italy game, no harm in testing yourself once in a while but to take the France game after it was crazy.

Agree with testing once in a while, but not at the end of the season when our players couldn't give a toss. There is no disgrace in losing to either of those teams, providing the players and manager with a convenient excuse.

Should have played someone like Iceland, Albania, Romania, Hungary, Austria, where everyone is held a little more accountable. Glamour games should be in November, preferably in Glasgow when it's cold, wet and windy, thus giving a slightly more level playing field.

[andyD]

Wasn't particularly worried by Slovakias performance the other day. They weren't terrible and Hamsik is a player, but they're no great shakes.
 Similarly, England weren't wildly impressive either. Struggling to score past an old, slow russian side who had no invention whatso ever.

We are capable of getting results from these teams, but it will 100% depend on which Scotland turns up. Strachan's assessment of our players being scared is spot on, and if we show up still scared then we'll likely get beat. If we can find a shred of confidence from somewhere, or be given it by us fans, then we really do have a chance of getting thru this qualifying group.

[Diamond Scot]

21 hours ago, Toepoke said:

We've had a few if you go back as far as 20 years. Certainly only Fletcher in the past decade...

 

Collins at Monaco and Lambert at Dortmund? Thats right at the 20 year point though.

I really do think this is our issue. We are so worried and critical when players leave Scotland young because they never go on to become anything. We would rather they got "game time" in a league where they will learn very little and at best become decent players. 

Take Naismith as an example. When he was a teenager he went on trial at Arsenal. Should he have went there he most likely wouldnt have made it however if he did make it he would have made it big. What he is now is a run of the mill decent player.  You could repeat that example 100 times with our players. 

[Wolfgang Overthebar]

1 hour ago, Diamond Scot said:

Collins at Monaco and Lambert at Dortmund? Thats right at the 20 year point though.

I really do think this is our issue. We are so worried and critical when players leave Scotland young because they never go on to become anything. We would rather they got "game time" in a league where they will learn very little and at best become decent players. 

Take Naismith as an example. When he was a teenager he went on trial at Arsenal. Should he have went there he most likely wouldnt have made it however if he did make it he would have made it big. What he is now is a run of the mill decent player.  You could repeat that example 100 times with our players. 

Agree with you 100%  We need our young players to leave Scotland and the poor facilities, poor diet, their mates and the drink culture behind. And test themselves against the best youngsters from elsewhere and become professional footballers. And realise what it takes to become really top players

[bossman4]

10 minutes ago, Wolfgang Overthebar said:

Agree with you 100%  We need our young players to leave Scotland and the poor facilities, poor diet, their mates and the drink culture behind. And test themselves against the best youngsters from elsewhere and become professional footballers. And realise what it takes to become really top players

The diet and drink culture is massive its amazing the amount of younger players who are totally clueless on that front. As I mentioned on another thread somewhere, I live in Northern Ireland and I'm heavily involved with my local junior club, we have a decent youth set up and I recently done my IFA Grassroots coaching course (first step of the ladder over here). The local development officer taking the course spoke about teaching kids the importance of what they eat. He mentioned a NI Under 16 national team coaching day that was ran for the squad. Full days coaching and such like, told all kids and parents that they were to bring a healthy pack lunch, fruit brown bread the normal stuff. One lad turns up with nothing other than £5 his mum gave him. Wandered to the nearby shop at lunch time with the instruction not to buy junk food. Came back with a multipack of crisps and 2 litre bottle of red bull.

[Orraloon]

5 hours ago, andyD said:

Wasn't particularly worried by Slovakias performance the other day. They weren't terrible and Hamsik is a player, but they're no great shakes.
 Similarly, England weren't wildly impressive either. Struggling to score past an old, slow russian side who had no invention whatso ever.

We are capable of getting results from these teams, but it will 100% depend on which Scotland turns up. Strachan's assessment of our players being scared is spot on, and if we show up still scared then we'll likely get beat. If we can find a shred of confidence from somewhere, or be given it by us fans, then we really do have a chance of getting thru this qualifying group.

Ach we will "get thru" the group nae bother. It's just a question of whether we finish 3rd or 4th.

[er yir macaroon]

On 13 June 2016 at 8:06 PM, Diamond Scot said:

Collins at Monaco and Lambert at Dortmund? Thats right at the 20 year point though.

I really do think this is our issue. We are so worried and critical when players leave Scotland young because they never go on to become anything. We would rather they got "game time" in a league where they will learn very little and at best become decent players. 

Take Naismith as an example. When he was a teenager he went on trial at Arsenal. Should he have went there he most likely wouldnt have made it however if he did make it he would have made it big. What he is now is a run of the mill decent player.  You could repeat that example 100 times with our players. 

Pretty sure Naismith failed a pace test so didn't have the option. 

[Squirrelhumper]

16 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

Pretty sure Naismith failed a pace test so didn't have the option. 

He was there for trial, Arsenal never took it any further.

[Orraloon]

Slovakia destroying Russia at the moment. I'm starting to think they might win the group. Not the Euro group but our WC group.  

[FANDABBYDOZZY]

9 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Slovakia destroying Russia at the moment. I'm starting to think they might win the group. Not the Euro group but our WC group.  

they'll pump us that's for sure

[bossman4]

9 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Slovakia destroying Russia at the moment. I'm starting to think they might win the group. Not the Euro group but our WC group.  

Russia are woeful though, can't believe how bad they are. Slovakia been good but I wouldn't say they were that good.

[Orraloon]

5 minutes ago, bossman4 said:

Russia are woeful though, can't believe how bad they are. Slovakia been good but I wouldn't say they were that good.

We havnae qualified for 20 years and you think Russia are woeful? 

[bossman4]

1 minute ago, Orraloon said:

We havnae qualified for 20 years and you think Russia are woeful? 

They have been today, as they were on Saturday. Us not qualifying for 20 years has bugger all to do with that.

[Orraloon]

8 minutes ago, bossman4 said:

They have been today, as they were on Saturday. Us not qualifying for 20 years has bugger all to do with that.

I think they might be happy to get knocked out before they get thrown out? They have been pretty pish right enough.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Orraloon

[Radian]

Slovakia beat a pish Russia team yet Wales didn't play too exceptional and beat them.  England will finish above them in our group

[Langtonian]

Don't think we're in a position to call any team that's qualified and playing in the Euros woeful or pish

[andyD]

16 hours ago, Langtonian said:

Don't think we're in a position to call any team that's qualified and playing in the Euros woeful or pish

Northern Ireland are pish.

Re: Slovakia, they're ok. An average side with Hamsik. I think Poland are probably better than them tbh, so we don't have a massive amount to fear.

Re: Us, I think folk need to pick themselves up a bit. Sure, we just played 2 friendlies and lost badly with pretty rubbish performances in both. But they were against 2 of the best sides in the world, and we had our 3rd choice midfield on the park. Before that we had 2 decent results (and defensive performances if not attacking ones) against decent sides, and in the qualifying campaign we were largely decent, having a decent go at Germany, beating Ireland over the two games and unlucky not to beat Poland over the two. We played rank in the last two games, but we're not as bad as those games suggest.

[Orraloon]

30 minutes ago, andyD said:

Northern Ireland are pish.

Re: Slovakia, they're ok. An average side with Hamsik. I think Poland are probably better than them tbh, so we don't have a massive amount to fear.

Re: Us, I think folk need to pick themselves up a bit. Sure, we just played 2 friendlies and lost badly with pretty rubbish performances in both. But they were against 2 of the best sides in the world, and we had our 3rd choice midfield on the park. Before that we had 2 decent results (and defensive performances if not attacking ones) against decent sides, and in the qualifying campaign we were largely decent, having a decent go at Germany, beating Ireland over the two games and unlucky not to beat Poland over the two. We played rank in the last two games, but we're not as bad as those games suggest.

We are a below average team with no one anywhere near the class of Hamsik. But they are not a one man band IMO. They have quality players right through their team. I guess we might have a better idea of what level they are at after they play England. Hopefully England won't beat Wales which will force them into having to win against Slovakia. That will be a good test for them. 

One positive I took from the Russia game is that when Russia were pummelling them near the end of the game Hamsik seemed to go missing a wee bit. So much so, that I wondered if I'd missed him getting substituted. Maybe he is the type of player who can disappear when things are no going so good. Then again maybe he was just knackered.

[Malcolm]

On 16 June 2016 at 11:42 AM, andyD said:

Northern Ireland are pish.

Re: Slovakia, they're ok. An average side with Hamsik. I think Poland are probably better than them tbh, so we don't have a massive amount to fear.

Re: Us, I think folk need to pick themselves up a bit. Sure, we just played 2 friendlies and lost badly with pretty rubbish performances in both. But they were against 2 of the best sides in the world, and we had our 3rd choice midfield on the park. Before that we had 2 decent results (and defensive performances if not attacking ones) against decent sides, and in the qualifying campaign we were largely decent, having a decent go at Germany, beating Ireland over the two games and unlucky not to beat Poland over the two. We played rank in the last two games, but we're not as bad as those games suggest.

We are about the level of Northern Ireland.

[Orraloon]

2 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

We are about the level of Northern Ireland.

Almost

[Toepoke]

1 hour ago, Malcolm said:

We are about the level of Northern Ireland.

I'd swap their defence for ours in a minute!